Consumer Reports rates Tundra 4x4 v8, Camry v6 and GS 430 poorly

[Uneek]

Re: CR re. Vehicles

So while Toyota is experiencing some quality issues as of late, I am confident that they will address these in a very timely manner. Unlike many of the domestic manufacturers, their learning curve is much sharper! (As an aside, watch how fast the Koreans are learning)

OK, so 2007 model (new car) reliability is important but any major defects will be covered by warranty and the most important thing IMO is longer-term reliability.

Sure, Ford has improved the reliability of some of its 2007 models, but in 2009 I bet a 2007 Fusion has some major oil leak and is generally falling apart. Meanwhile a Toyota will still be rolling along fine, just like Toyota's always do.

:iagree:

The key difference is Toyota is/has acknowledge there's a problem and their quality along with their bulletproof reliability reputation is suffering. President Watanabe says change is on the way. (We shall see.) IMO, realizing and owning up there is a problem is the key why Toyota has been successful, rather than just brush the problem aside.

 

[Koz]

Toyota, Lexus and Scion models lead the industry with 17, ranked "Most Reliable" in this year's Consumer Reports Reliability Survey. Toyota, Lexus and Scion models accounted for 44 percent of the list. Even with the new redesign problems, Toyota STILL has the most reliable vehicles on the market!

Talk about MISREPRESENTED!

The old saying - If you throw enough $hit, some will stick!

Koz

 

[Boston_Runner]

When you are on top, there is no place to go but down. Did you guys notice that both of the not recommanded cars are built and design in the US.

 

[Koz]

When you are on top, there is no place to go but down. Did you guys notice that both of the not recommanded cars are built and design in the US.

All it is is a brand new engine and trans. This will happen, it's history! It also gives the $hit throwers something to throw.

Koz

 

[Gromulus]

Japan vs. US

When you are on top, there is no place to go but down. Did you guys notice that both of the not recommanded cars are built and design in the US.

Not true. While the Tundra is built in the US only, the Camry is built in the US and Japan (along with it's sister ES350). It has been documented that both US and Japan built Camrys along with the Japan built ES have had tranny issues (visit www.clublexus.com). The GS is only built in Japan.

Our trouble-free 2007 Camry V6XLE was built in the US at the Georgetown, KY plant. as was our 1992 Camry V6 XLE with almost 200K miles on it.

Having been employed by a Japanese company that supplied Toyota in Japan and the US I do not buy the "Japan built is better than US" built opinion.

 

[TheBlueWave]

Re: Japan vs. US

Not true. While the Tundra is built in the US only, the Camry is built in the US and Japan (along with it's sister ES350). It has been documented that both US and Japan built Camrys along with the Japan built ES have had tranny issues (visit www.clublexus.com). The GS is only built in Japan.

Our trouble-free 2007 Camry V6XLE was built in the US at the Georgetown, KY plant. as was our 1992 Camry V6 XLE with almost 200K miles on it.

Having been employed by a Japanese company that supplied Toyota in Japan and the US I do not buy the "Japan built is better than US" built opinion.

:iagree:

Believe me, Japanese engineers (even the great Toyota) are no smarter than engineers in any other developed country (education levels, people all over the world are uneducated and intelligent enough to be an engineer). Toyota's culture is built on continuous improvement, which could translate as continuous change. Hopefully the change will come to improve the quality issues they face today.
BTW, the 4runner has very good reliability marks.
You guys sound like the old FARTS forums, only on the opposite side. As soon as CR says something negative, they are "toaster testers" who don't know shit about cars. But when they rank your car high, you love and trust them.
Consumer reviews are what I use along with CR and other reviews to make my decision. Multiple sources give us the most info.

 

[jharris2]

CR should stick to evaluating toasters and microwaves IMO

That's why I let the subscription expire.

 

[barc111]

If you do some research, the 4cyl. Camry's had the same issues associated with the V6 Camry.

The fix was to simply hook up the computer and install a new map. Less than 10 minutes in the service drive. Ask your friendly Toyota Technician.

Consumer Reports failed to mention what the reliability issue was, and what it took to fix the problem. The issue was quickly resolved without any parts needing to be replaced.

When you have a business making money off of advertisers and big business....I tend to do my own research as the potential for biased opinions is just too much.

 

[Thai]

If you do some research, the 4cyl. Camry's had the same issues associated with the V6 Camry.

The fix was to simply hook up the computer and install a new map. Less than 10 minutes in the service drive. Ask your friendly Toyota Technician.

Are you talking about the transmission issue(s) that afflicted V6 Camrys and ES350s?? If so, then i suggest that you do a little MORE research because the tranny issue was NOT a simple software issue...as a lot of ES350 owners found out.

 

[My1stT4R]

The fix was to simply hook up the computer and install a new map. Less than 10 minutes in the service drive. Ask your friendly Toyota Technician.

Well, not so fast. According to AN ARTICLE from the autospies.com website, the problem seems to be more than reprogramming. There are some mechanical issues as well.

A quote from Jim Lentz:

 

[jharris2]

 

[Thai]

That's the most disturbing line in the entire article -- that they knew there was a design problem, yet they didn't bother to correct it until after the car was released to the public.

You shouldn't be...Toyota apparently knew about the bad camshafts and still release the Tundra 5.7L V8 to the public. Toyota is good, but they are not immune to "domestic-like" mistakes. Hell, just reading the ES350 forum is like reading a VW Touareg or Range Rover forum...almost every other post is a problem post!! (Note: this is in direct contrast to what you see on this and other 4runner forums.)

As for the ES350/Camry V6 tranny, i hope that it is fixed already, but there are still some owners with 7/07 build ES350 having tranny issues. Here is a quick summary of what i wrote in another thread:

Here is the link to more TSBs about other ES350 stuff: http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=249766

Here is a poll of the problem: http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=250652

Here is a problem on a recent ES350: http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=289252

And here is a thread about the TSIB not working or creating other issues: http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=284028

Quotes:
"Since my transmission replacement and re-re-flash on my Camry I no longer have the cold flare, but do have intermittent 2nd-3rd and 3rd-4th and 4th-5th flares of varying degrees after the vehicle is fully warmed up. Some upwards of 500 RPM.

Although the severe cold flare is gone I consider this worse as it's unpredictable, alarming when it does occur, and next to impossible to reproduce at the dealer. I do have videos though."

"Yes, I totally agree with you that this could be worst than before. You are right on with what you're experiencing - I have the same issue on my end. It doesn't flare on the cold start but will do so at random during normal driving and can sometimes cause some very harsh shifts. My flares are usually in the 200rpm range so they're not as high as before. Nonetheless, any flaring at all in a 45K car is not acceptable to me."

"Mines' not fixed from the flash....pursuing buyback."

"I plan to wait until Toyota has a real fix (i.e., a revised transmission) and then will pursue a buyback. My theory is that most of the U660-equipped cars have the flare problem, but not everyone drives in such a way to trigger the flare or notices it. My '07 ES350 was mfd July 2007, and had minor flares from the start. Now that it's hit 2500 miles (1.5 months old), it flares ~800+ rpm several times after started. I traded in a 9-month old 2007 Camry V6 XLE that had serious flare problems even after getting a new transmission (and that was damaged in numerous ways by the mechanics), so I'm really torqued that the Lexus version has the same problem a year later. Toyota refused to buy back the Camry and I'm feeling foolish for entrusting this manufacturer with another purchase..."

 

[Thai]

Quote from post at Clublexus:
"TSB from Toyota on Camry 6 speed Transmission same as ES350

Toyota just released a new TSB (TC007-07) for the infamous U660E transmission to correct the flare (slipping) problem. This is, of course, applicable only to the V6 Camry (and Lexus ES350).

The TSB calls for reflashing the transmission computer with new firmware to fix the problem. It also states that if the new firmware doesn't do the trick, the transaxle needs to be replaced (of course, that was in the older TSBs, and didn't solve my problem nor that of numerous other posters).

My conclusion is that they identified two problems with the transmission: one mechanical and one related to programming. The mechanical one was identified months back when they released the valve body replacement TSB and the subsequent R/R transaxle TSB. The firmware update is what's new this time.

What's interesting is that the list of flares the TSB is supposed to fix involves more than just the 3-4 shift flare that's so obvious. Other shift flares that I see mentioned less on discussion boards (with the exception of Edmunds, which has a number of complaints about these) were listed. Also, the TSB says the flares are most noticeable after a cold soak, implying they can occur when the car is warmed up (something many of us already knew from experience).

* 3-4 upshift during first 10 minutes of operation
* 2nd - 3rd upshift
* 4th - 5th upshift
* 5th - 4th downshift when accelerating from coast or decelerating between 30 - 40 mph"
-----------------------------------------------------------------
"Today was my worst flare day todate-morning, lunch, evening-3 flares on first start after every "cold" start. One a day is bad enough but every time-come on Lexus this is a major problem and as many have said already it only get worst with age-I have 12k on mine and I fear with cold weather coming it will be even worst. One flare-lunch time- was 1200 rpms. Dealer still using same line-"normal charactristic" bull dung!!!!!"

 

[boston_kevin]

Toyota finally got caught doing what every manufacturer has been doing for years. There is a price to pay if you don't time the market right, based on that timing and the cost, sometimes it's worth the risk to release a mediocre product on time, than to release a great product late. The interesting part is that CR rated the camry V6 so bad, even the ford taurus of the 80's look better.

 

[Thai]

even the ford taurus of the 80's look better.

Hey, the Taurus was the #1 car for many moons.

 

[Northof49]

The tranny issues are a more widespread, and documented as such.

The Tundra's rating is a real cheap shot tho... They knew there was a specific problem with a specific number (a VERY low number) of trucks, they remedied it immediately and there have been no related problems since. That's a pretty rough slam on CR's part IMO.

 

[brad6841]

This may have been said already.....and kind of goes with what Thai said about the Tundra 5.7L camshaft.....

Thai Said....
Toyota apparently knew about the bad camshafts and still release the Tundra 5.7L V8 to the public. Toyota is good, but they are not immune to "domestic-like" mistakes.

Toyota seems to hide their issues that most domestic companies would just issue a recall for. My dad had a 94 4Runner that had the fuel pump go bad at around 30,000 miles.....the dealer told him that Toyota knew about the issue, but instead of issuing a recall they were just fixing them free of charge when they arrived broken.....even if out of warranty.

Now this is good that Toyota is correcting the issue, but to the general public it makes Toyota look like a squeeky clean company.....when in all seriousness they have some of the same issues that domestic companies do.

The re-occurring transmission issue with the Camry's, sounds like the drive line 'thunk' of the 99-03 Silverados. So I guess no company is immune to design flaws.....

 

[Northof49]

Toyota has issues too; any long-term enthusiast can name a few big ones from the past: 7M headgaskets, 3vz headgaskets, Previa wiper motors, etc.

Nothing mechanical is perfect. It seems that along the way of Toyota becoming fully "mainstream," they picked up a bunch of buyers that were assumed they were buying a guaranteed "perfect car," of which no such thing exists. Toyota or not, you are still buying on probability.

 

[Northof49]

Toyota seems to hide their issues that most domestic companies would just issue a recall for. My dad had a 94 4Runner that had the fuel pump go bad at around 30,000 miles.....the dealer told him that Toyota knew about the issue, but instead of issuing a recall they were just fixing them free of charge when they arrived broken.....even if out of warranty.

Now this is good that Toyota is correcting the issue, but to the general public it makes Toyota look like a squeeky clean company.....when in all seriousness they have some of the same issues that domestic companies do.

I think your logic is backwards. Toyota does "campaigns" on many issues that other companies would simply leave up to the customer. Such issues are not "recalls," because they are not safety related and not worthy of the inaccurate press they may recieve. Try bringing in your Caravan for a new (free) automatic transmission out of warranty....that issue's only been documented for, oh, 15 years and 3 million unit.

 

[Falls]

I'm gonna put my .02 in here.

This is my first Toyota , it is a nice vehicle , it feels solid , off road its great I would recommend one . Although I feel its a pretty tough truck I'm one who finds it to be just as good as my Tahoe was. So far it has my 04 Escape 4x4 w/40k on it beat in trips to the dealer , and has my 04 Tahoe (sold) beat in trips to the dealer. Nothing major , just normal BS and its an 06 with 34k miles.

I've actually been looking for a used Tahoe right now to get something bigger and my wife will take the 4R if we find the right one.

I'm am a firm believer there is no superior vehicle , everything mechanical can fail and be prone to problems , I'm more concerned hoe they get handled by the mfg. . I will buy what work for me and what I like. If I was not leased into this truck it probably would be gone , but at 1.3 % interest rate and good off road ability I can't ***** .