Crawl control vs. A-track w/ light steady foot??

[mnofpeace]

ive been around long enough, flame me if i am deserving and link me up if im an idiot for not finding it, cuz i couldnt


Ive seen the vids, where someone uses crawl control and Atrac to get out of dug-in stuck sand...

Is there evidence, or at the least knowledge of, someone in an SR5 or Lmt using 4Lo/Atrac/and a steady light throttle foot to do the same thing?


just curious...

 

[rihavens]

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/156373-what-difference-between-atrac-crawl-control.html

 

[Jetboy]

I've never seen anything like crawl control for stuck in sand conditions. It's witchcraft. Everywhere else, a-trac is probably just as good and sometimes better. I've never seen anyone try it in sand like the ATRAC videos. There's a video of a Colorado and Tacoma side by side on the same sand hill. Nothing on the Colorado would work to either go where the Tacoma went or be able to get unstuck like the Tacoma could with Crawl. They even dropped the Colorado to 15psi and still didn't work.

Colorado has rear locker and traction control front. But I'm not sure how it compares to Atrac.

<iframe width="1269" height="714" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/K1_1SQSfhcg" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

If I had some sand I'd give it a try.

 

[Decipher]

I got myself good and stuck a few weeks back when I was wheeling on a frozen pond and the ice broke, causing me to fall through. The pond is only about 2” deep where I was but I was by myself and thought I was screwed...until I used ATrac. I had to crawl through thick ice, mud, and slush. The ATrac helped me crawl out like it was nothing. I couldn’t even budge before I engaged it. Love it!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[nb rob]

ive been around long enough, flame me if i am deserving and link me up if im an idiot for not finding it, cuz i couldnt


Ive seen the vids, where someone uses crawl control and Atrac to get out of dug-in stuck sand...

Is there evidence, or at the least knowledge of, someone in an SR5 or Lmt using 4Lo/Atrac/and a steady light throttle foot to do the same thing?


just curious...

The big advantage is that it's adjusting throttle and braking for each wheel.
I've read a lot of people say they don't use it and that it's useless for them.

Turns out I find myself going down big hills to get to my fishing spots, and I use it for really steep stuff. And I've gotten unstuck once before.

But it certainly isn't a replacement for driver skill. Just another tool in the toolbox.

I'm reminded of those videos of the guy rocking around MOAB in a caprice classic.... skill.

 

[mnofpeace]

to be even clearer about my ask...

ive used the hill decent control on my SR5, and i like it, helped me down what is about a 40 degree down hill section to get to my house, on a snow packed street. i do wonder if, used on a flat section of dirt or sand, with just the idle rolling, that would also be similar

what i mean is...if i just barely hit the accellerator, would that be similar, if not exactly the same, as if a Trail/Off-Rd owner turned on his switches, turned his nobs, and let the rig do its thing as well?

ive also used Atrac in off rd and very deep snow situations, and after being stuck just trying to power out without them...hit the button, try again, hear all of the noise, and it pops right up/out of the situation...i do love it.


thanks for the responses tho...

 

[LandCruiser]

I like crawl control and the horrific noises it makes for going downhill on some of the nastier trails around here.

There's literally no reason not to use every single tool in the 4WD toolbox.

Unless you can simultaneously use the throttle and brake a few times every second to adjust for wheel slip like a computer can, it's not the same thing.

 

[wfo9]

To answer your question.. not it is not the same.

The best way to think about it is this.
Atrac attempts to emulate lockers via brake activated limited slip. Some might say it emulates a limited slip differential, but in the end.. The goal is the same... to keep both wheels on the same axle moving at the same speed.

Crawl control attempts to emulate lockers via brake activated limited slip and at the same time a lower reduction gear via simultaneous application of brakes and electronic throttle control.

The downside of crawl control is that the driver no longer has control of anything but steering. So in a very static situation it works, but rarely is any off-road situation static in terms of throttle and brake needs to overcome and obstacle or limited traction situation. it's also annoying and awkward since the truck is constantly fighting itself and groaning. However, it does function as a low speed cruise control which could be useful in some situations.


There is really no major downside to Atrac besides the fact that it can get very confused at times and will kill all power when lots of wheel speed is needed. It's also not very predictable in terms of keeping the wheels moving at the same speed. A skilled offroader can get frustrated by it compared to having a locker... but it is still way better than a purely open diff. The noise it makes is also annoying, but it only does it when needed to keep both wheels at the same speed.. so it is much less annoying than crawl.

The reason you can't emulate crawl control with your foot from a stuck situation is really two factor.. One.. the gearing is simply not low enough and the torque converter flashes..so you can't turn the wheels with a consistent wheel speed as traction is suddenly lost. Two.. the ATRAC logic is not aggressive enough in terms of keeping the wheel speeds identical. Crawl can be a bit more aggressive about keeping the wheel speeds consistent, since it is also in charge of the throttle....

In the end. the mechanical solutions to what these electronics are trying to do are way better and elegant for actual offroading. Lower gearing and lockers. Once you have experienced a multi speed transfer case and lockers front and rear.. You will see that these electronics are a useful simulation of the real thing. They still have purpose... but are just not a true substitute for the real thing.

I would not get too caught up in the vids where crawl gets trucks out of sand. It's sort of a trick...often shown on a slope. In the real world..It's a useful tool but won't overcome the laws of physics. You are much better off worrying about your ground pressure, clearance, momentum and recovery tools in sand. The crawl might work in 1 out of 500 situations. The rest will always work.

 

[wfo9]

I've never seen anything like crawl control for stuck in sand conditions. It's witchcraft. Everywhere else, a-trac is probably just as good and sometimes better. I've never seen anyone try it in sand like the ATRAC videos. There's a video of a Colorado and Tacoma side by side on the same sand hill. Nothing on the Colorado would work to either go where the Tacoma went or be able to get unstuck like the Tacoma could with Crawl. They even dropped the Colorado to 15psi and still didn't work.

Colorado has rear locker and traction control front. But I'm not sure how it compares to Atrac.

If I had some sand I'd give it a try.

A more useful comparison would have been a zr2 Colorado vs the Tacoma TRD offroad pro or whatever they call it... That would show if crawl actually has some magic for sand.

Dropping the tires to 15psi after sitting down on the bumper and frame rails does not help LOL

 

[Redsoxx1918]

To answer your question.. not it is not the same.

The best way to think about it is this.
Atrac attempts to emulate lockers via brake activated limited slip. Some might say it emulates a limited slip differential, but in the end.. The goal is the same... to keep both wheels on the same axle moving at the same speed.

Crawl control attempts to emulate lockers via brake activated limited slip and at the same time a lower reduction gear via simultaneous application of brakes and electronic throttle control.

The downside of crawl control is that the driver no longer has control of anything but steering. So in a very static situation it works, but rarely is any off-road situation static in terms of throttle and brake needs to overcome and obstacle or limited traction situation. it's also annoying and awkward since the truck is constantly fighting itself and groaning. However, it does function as a low speed cruise control which could be useful in some situations.


There is really no major downside to Atrac besides the fact that it can get very confused at times and will kill all power when lots of wheel speed is needed. It's also not very predictable in terms of keeping the wheels moving at the same speed. A skilled offroader can get frustrated by it compared to having a locker... but it is still way better than a purely open diff. The noise it makes is also annoying, but it only does it when needed to keep both wheels at the same speed.. so it is much less annoying than crawl.

The reason you can't emulate crawl control with your foot from a stuck situation is really two factor.. One.. the gearing is simply not low enough and the torque converter flashes..so you can't turn the wheels with a consistent wheel speed as traction is suddenly lost. Two.. the ATRAC logic is not aggressive enough in terms of keeping the wheel speeds identical. Crawl can be a bit more aggressive about keeping the wheel speeds consistent, since it is also in charge of the throttle....

In the end. the mechanical solutions to what these electronics are trying to do are way better and elegant for actual offroading. Lower gearing and lockers. Once you have experienced a multi speed transfer case and lockers front and rear.. You will see that these electronics are a useful simulation of the real thing. They still have purpose... but are just not a true substitute for the real thing.

I would not get too caught up in the vids where crawl gets trucks out of sand. It's sort of a trick...often shown on a slope. In the real world..It's a useful tool but won't overcome the laws of physics. You are much better off worrying about your ground pressure, clearance, momentum and recovery tools in sand. The crawl might work in 1 out of 500 situations. The rest will always work.

Crawl control just recently saved me when I was stuck on the beach. Nothing else would work. If I hadn’t had crawl control I would have been digging. Not something you’ll need all the time but it’s a great tool to have. I put up a post about it a couple days ago.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Decipher]

Smart and fancy features improve off-road ability substantially.

Complain about the noises said features make while working to save our @sses

#firstworldproblems


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Jetboy]

A more useful comparison would have been a zr2 Colorado vs the Tacoma TRD offroad pro or whatever they call it... That would show if crawl actually has some magic for sand.

Dropping the tires to 15psi after sitting down on the bumper and frame rails does not help LOL

I think an even more useful comparison would simply be to use the same Tacoma with ATRAC only, and see if you could get out. Then use Crawl. I would try it with my 4runner, but I don't have any sand near me that I can get stuck in unless the gravel pit will let me go play in the sand pile. It would be even better to have a vehicle with a front locker too - so you could compare ATRAC, CRAWL, and locked/locked.

I don't have much experience in sand. It's common to be high centered in snow, drop pressure, and then drive out.

 

[rockwind1]

i am not allowed to start a thread apparently so guess i will revive this thread, although it is not exactly my question.

crawl control with or without locker on, which is better locker on or off? same with multi terrain


to me crawl control is not super useful driving on dirt roads cause lots of time you need momentum to get up something, right? but with multi terrain you can get some momentum.

if you were going up a steep long climb loose rocks, would you use the locker with atrac,,, or the locker with multi select,,, or no locker,,,cause in my mind if your locker is on, the atrac or multi select can't control each side, i mean if a locker is on and rear wheel starts spinning, they are both spinning. does multi terrain or atrac control the spinning on rear wheels when locker is engaged?

 

[tacoyota]

crawl control sucks. PERIOD. gimmick for noobs. It is better to use atrac, throttle control and your driver skills. And the noise CC makes sounds like shits gonna break. I used it when I purposely got stuck in sand and it just stopped and said high tranny temp. That video of a tacoma getting stuck in sand is weak.

 

[rockwind1]

crawl control sucks. PERIOD. gimmick for noobs. It is better to use atrac, throttle control and your driver skills. And the noise CC makes sounds like shits gonna break. I used it when I purposely got stuck in sand and it just stopped and said high tranny temp. That video of a tacoma getting stuck in sand is weak.

when using your atrac, throttle control and driver skills, do you also have your locker on or off?

 

[Flighht2k]

crawl control sucks. PERIOD. gimmick for noobs. It is better to use atrac, throttle control and your driver skills. And the noise CC makes sounds like shits gonna break. I used it when I purposely got stuck in sand and it just stopped and said high tranny temp. That video of a tacoma getting stuck in sand is weak.

It actually works [emoji1787]

 

[jhguth]

i am not allowed to start a thread apparently so guess i will revive this thread, although it is not exactly my question.

crawl control with or without locker on, which is better locker on or off? same with multi terrain


to me crawl control is not super useful driving on dirt roads cause lots of time you need momentum to get up something, right? but with multi terrain you can get some momentum.

if you were going up a steep long climb loose rocks, would you use the locker with atrac,,, or the locker with multi select,,, or no locker,,,cause in my mind if your locker is on, the atrac or multi select can't control each side, i mean if a locker is on and rear wheel starts spinning, they are both spinning. does multi terrain or atrac control the spinning on rear wheels when locker is engaged?

Lockers depend on terrain, it has nothing to do with if you are using crawl control or not. If you're going up or down dry rock and regularlyifting a tire then locking the rear will be helpful, but if you're on slick mud and the trail is off camber a rear locker will slide you off the trail.

 

[Jetboy]

Crawl works really well in some situations. I think I've got a good idea of the logic behind it. It's not merely brake based traction control. It basically determines torque to reach the threshold of motion, then adjusts all the brake parameters and throttle ramp in. It also manages speed when it's moving reasonably well. It has occasionally worked where rear locker and MTS would not. The same is true in reverse.

As far as rear locker or not, depends on the scenario. The only time I would use it without rear locker engaged is when you need a very tight turn or when your using as cruise control on a slow section. Tight turns are pretty common on some trails and crawl can solve a situation lockers can't.

Overall it's a nice thing to have for some situations. On the scale of odd road goodies it's a small incremental benefit to ATRAC.

 

[euser]

when using your atrac, throttle control and driver skills, do you also have your locker on or off?

Lockers are also a gimmick for noobs with no driver skills. All you really need is wheels and skillz. He wouldn’t know though because he uses atrac.

 

[BCMUSA]

I am a believer in crawl control.

Before buying my 4runner, I did a lot of research on it and I think I must have watched at least 50 different YouTube videos on it. I have seen quite a bit of videos where skilled off-roaders where stuck and couldn't get out until they used crawl control.

From what I understand, using MTS + Crawl control at the same time is the best for really bad situations. MTS gives the computer a little more information on what type of stuff you're stuck on, and helps crawl control determine what to do a little better.

I'll probably never use it as I don't do any crazy off-roading, but I think it's a cool feature to have.