Dash Replacement NIGHTMARE

bzettler83

New member
Took my 4runner in on Monday for the dash recall, the dealer got it all buttoned up and not the truck wont start. They are claiming there is no signal going to the ECU.

They are putting blame on the stero installer who installed the Navi unit 1.5yrs ago, I just find that hard to believe.

The tech mentioned when he had the dash apart and pulled the head unit it sparked, which concerns me. Why didnt they unhook the battery first...

Any ideas what this could be, they dont seem to have a clue.
 
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**** no.. Talk geta hold of the service manager.. If that does not work File a complaint to Toyota and BBB. Their CSI score will drop.

No way that can cause the ecu to fry... Also the Tech sounds incompetent.


Took my 4runner in on Monday for the dash recall, the dealer got it all buttoned up and not the truck wont start. They are claiming there is no signal going to the ECU.

They are putting blame on the stero installer who installed the Navi unit 1.5yrs ago, I just find that hard to believe.

The tech mentioned when he had the dash apart and pulled the head unit it sparked, which concerns me. Why didnt they unhook the battery first...

Any ideas what this could be, they dont seem to have a clue.
 
Took my 4runner in on Monday for the dash recall, the dealer got it all buttoned up and not the truck wont start. They are claiming there is no signal going to the ECU.

They are putting blame on the stero installer who installed the Navi unit 1.5yrs ago, I just find that hard to believe.

The tech mentioned when he had the dash apart and pulled the head unit it sparked, which concerns me. Why didnt they unhook the battery first...

Any ideas what this could be, they dont seem to have a clue.
start checking fuses?

**** no.. Talk geta hold of the service manager.. If that does not work File a complaint to Toyota and BBB. Their CSI score will drop.

No way that can cause the ecu to fry... Also the Tech sounds incompetent.
stories like these will scare me into doing my own AC repair...
 
Oooh... Definitely talk to the Service Manager about that. First off they're dealing with airbags to get the dash off, so they SHOULD have disconnected the battery as per Toyota's instructions in the FSM.

:popcorn: This is gonna get interesting! :)
 
Thw worst past is I know thge service advisor very well, hes always been great, has a 4th gen 4runner as well....

I think at this point they are trying to find a reason to point blame somewhere else. The fact they didnt disconnect the battery was a concern.

I understand some of the wiring done my me in installing lights, and other goodies might not be professional but in no way could cause this issue. My navi unit was installed by a professional company with a toyota harness. I just can imagine its the reason. I have a feeling something got cut, something didnt get connected, whatever.

I will keep everyone posted.
 
Okay, first thing is first. Can they pull DTCs from the vehicle? Also is the Immobilizer warning lamp flashing with the key in the ignition?

The immobilizer lives buried in the dash and they could have shorted a wire blowing a fuse and/or cut/damaged a communication line. The key thing her is to establish what the vehicle is doing when it isn't starting so they have an idea where to go. Because it could be as simple as a blown fuse, or as serious as fried modules.
 
I hope you get it fixed at their expense. This is exactly the type of incident I was afraid would happen to me when I get mine replaced and hence the reason I am waiting a good six months. Replacing a dash is a big job and not one the techs do every day.
 
+1 on waiting until the techs get a few more under their belt. We are still waiting in Kansas to get the supply of replacement boards, but when they get here I will be waiting 6 months or so after they tell me to come in. :boink: Good luck getting it sorted out.
 
[MENTION=66389]BlackWorksInc[/MENTION], seems that theres a few of us on here that are concerned with the techs and the replacement of our dash b/c of wiring and gadgets that have been ran through the dash or the vicinity. I myself have Klivs VSC off mod and the control module is located behind the fold out dash cubby, I know each truck or wiring mod is going to be different so to your answer can't be to specific. But generally speaking what do you suggest about it? Should we leave things how they are and hope the tech does a great job or fill out the service request and let them know, to the best of our knowledge, what to look out for?
 
Let's be realistic, most dealer techs are parts replacers and not much more. Not that it is their fault or they are bad guys, but by nature it is assembly line type work where something is broke, you replace it. They are not expected to fix anything. When something goes wrong, they want to replace more parts or blame a modification.

In this situation, it was working when you brought it in so it should be on them to make it right.
 
Let's be realistic, most dealer techs are parts replacers and not much more. Not that it is their fault or they are bad guys, but by nature it is assembly line type work where something is broke, you replace it. They are not expected to fix anything. When something goes wrong, they want to replace more parts or blame a modification.

In this situation, it was working when you brought it in so it should be on them to make it right.

A "no offense to any technicians" would be nice to add to your comment.

I dont agree with the first part of your post but i do agree with the second part, the problem needs to be corrected at the dealers expense.
 
A "no offense to any technicians" would be nice to add to your comment.

I dont agree with the first part of your post but i do agree with the second part, the problem needs to be corrected at the dealers expense.

Nothing Offends service techs more than being called a parts or grease monkey. I got out of auto service. I enjoyed it for years but people and most employers dont seem to respect service guys. They can fire and hire. Dont matter how good you are. Top that service guys dont make as much money as they use to. Back in the 90's advisors and experience techs can make over 100k at a busy dealership.

Still people idiotic engineers and paper pushers look down on you. They don't have a clue you make more then them.

I got out because it never felt stable.

OP if you know that advisor well. Talk to him. If he is anything but a standup guy he will take care of it and back you up. Its all about customer service at dealerships.
 
[MENTION=60930]4gin007[/MENTION]

Unfortunately [MENTION=49]Sungod[/MENTION] is right, most dealership and even 3rd party technicians tend to be more parts replacers than anything else. It doesn't help that Toyota's FSMs and Troubleshooting charts read as basically "Check Powers, Grounds, Continuity, then replace these things." Not to mention most of the information that you could use for diagnostics are either not available to even the dealer technicians or so buried in TIS it's not worth it for a flat rate mechanic to even attempt to find. These days technology is so far ahead of most technicians compared to what it used to be that they have no idea what they're working on half the time. Most guys look at you like you have two heads when you talk about using a DSO to diagnose a CANBus system or current ramping to test coils and injectors. What's even worse is that most shops, dealers, and technicians can't afford that equipment and training and/or don't want to bother learning that stuff.

Not to say that the older guys aren't good mechanics, but a large majority fall under the "can't teach an old dog new tricks" category, while most of the newer guys are not being taught right and/or given the opportunity to learn more than "replace this if the FSM Troubleshooting chart says so." We don't rebuild alternators, starters, ect. anymore; we replace them, hell engine rebuilding is rarely done at the dealership aside from the current slew of 2.4L campaign motors (even then all we're doing is pistons and rings and nothing else.) The system is set-up to sell parts and assemblies, not diagnosis or repair; warranty time is so bad these days that you're lucky if you break even on some of these campaigns and recalls.

Which brings me to the question you asked earlier [MENTION=60930]4gin007[/MENTION]. It doesn't really matter if the technician knows what he's doing or doesn't know; it's all about "can I make my hours." In the case of the 4Runner Dash it's 2.2hrs to replace the entire dash pad, I believe it's something like 3hrs+ on AllData (I'll check tomorrow if I can.) That means the technician is basically already being cheated out of about .8hrs on the job before he even gets it; the mentality with most warranty jobs is "how fast can I get it down to." Most technicians are paid flat rate, so the faster we get that warranty job done, the better chance we actually get paid properly at the end of the pay period. Due to how little "meat on the bone" there is with warranty (in some cases where they even come up with the numbers is beyond most of us since it often takes longer than what they pay, so the techs lose money on the job) most guys either aren't enthusiastic to do the work or just try to rush it; which can lead to mistakes (i.e "why bother disconnecting the battery? That's extra time under the hood! Just don't turn the key on and try not to short anything out!" or "Just bend that bracket a little and you can slide that thing right out!") You could inform the service writer about any mods you've done and/or to be aware of things once they start getting back there; but depending on the kind of technician you get (and let's be honest, it can be anywhere from "who let this Lube Tech work on this car!?" to "Damn dude, you sure you don't run your own ShowCar shop!?") they might not even bother to read anything beyond "Replace Dashboard under Warranty... 2.2.hrs." In the end it's up to you, the best you can do is to hold the dealership accountable for their quality of work; even if you have aftermarket components, they shouldn't be blaming YOU for shorting out something because they were rushing the job and not paying attention.

To give you a frame of reference, we had a CSP on 2nd Gen Prius combination meter replacement which requires the entire dash to come off; it pays only 1hr to take the dash off, disassemble the instrument cluster portion on the dash, replace the combination meter assembly, and put it all back together again. I've got it down to about 45~60min (pulling the car in, getting parts, ect.) if I'm doing good, most guys don't want to deal with it because they'll never break even on the job. I had to replace one on a 3rd gen Prius under warranty (I forget what it paid, but it was ridiculously light,) I found that while the FSM said to remove the entire dash like the 2nd gens; if I popped the center portion of the dash pad up, then tilted the cluster I can get it in & out in 1/3 of time time it would take if you removed the dash as per FSM (but you have to be careful and know how to twist it. I could easily see someone rushing breaking a clip or two on the dash or scratching the cluster if they were trying to rush it with my method.) Another example is the "just replace the actuator without cracking the transfercase open" method that gets mentioned every now and then on the forum; almost every time it's ever been mentioned there's a slew of "the o-ring leaked shortly after" or "the actuator stopped working after I did this" or "I couldn't get the timing right ever since I opened it up."
 
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and BTW, I was not referring to [MENTION=66389]BlackWorksInc[/MENTION] with my comments. Just the industry in general. There are exceptions, but they seem to be few and far between. The flat rate business model has created an environment of techs that just want to turn work, and add in service advisors that are focused on profit margin and sales goals and you have a situation that can be potentially bad for the customer when something doesn't follow what the manual says.

Undoubtedly BlackWorks must know something about being a real mechanic if he owns a 82 RX7. Now I would offer him more credit if it were a 79-80 that was pre electronic ignition, but there is still room for growth.
 
Finally out of the woods, and back to driving my truck....

So the cause of the problem was an issue with the fuse box below the steering wheel. I had tapped in to the ignition fuse for my hard wire kit for my radar detector. When the tech removed the tap it broke the connection, and no power was getting to the computer. The tech was able to pull apart the fuse box and soder the part back together.

Fortunately, no extra cost to me, and the new dash looks good.
 
glad the outcome was good.

So if I'm thinking about replacing the radio in my truck and I'm also having the dash replaced under the warranty program, should I probably wait for the radio and have Toyota do the dash first?
 

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