bofa
New member
Ive done a lot of reading and research on these and none seem to truly vary output between DRL and HB like a halogen. Some claim to see a faint difference. Ill probably still go LED and just disable DRL.
DDM Tuning Saber LED for DRL / High
- Thread starter Trail-AMMO
- Start date
Ive done a lot of reading and research on these and none seem to truly vary output between DRL and HB like a halogen. Some claim to see a faint difference. Ill probably still go LED and just disable DRL.
ANyone tired there new Saber Pro LEDS?, its 40Watts
4000 Lumens/ per bulb.
DDM Tuning: HID and LED Lighting
xtrmlaw
Junior Member
Just completed this DDM mod- mostly for the LED DRL, but the brights are awesome, especially when some clueless driver starts to pull in front of me at the last minute- light em up. The install was a cinch. Not sure if it was mentioned earlier, but it might be worth trying the O-rings that were on the original bulbs. I had the same issue with the black O-rings being too tight and orange too loose, and just loosened the cover until it fit. Anyway, awesome, inexpensive mod. Lots of looks from other T4R drivers. Oh right- I was one about a month ago.
well ill be getting those if/when my original sabers go out..
TRD-Ferguson
New member
I installed the Saber Pros a few weeks ago, been very happy with them so far. Can't comment as to any difference to the original Sabers as I jumped directly to the Pro, but my comments would be along the same lines as the original Saber reviews.
To the DRL point, my Pros definitely do switch to a PWM mode to "dim" noticeably for DRL, but I do also notice the strobing (typically when near a wall or in my peripheral vision, as has been mentioned before). It would be nice if they'd use a higher frequency oscillator for the PWM cycle. A shorter pulse width at a higher frequency would achieve the same result with less noticeable strobing. Not sure if it has been mentioned before but this is simply a characteristic of these high power LEDs when run at less than 100% duty cycle, they can't be truly "dimmed" like a filament. They're either on or off. So to achieve the dimming effect, they have to be pulsed. You can see this even on OE applications, on Top Gear and Grand Tour when newer high end cars are filmed in slow motion, and the camera frame rate picks up the pulsing.
Definitely pleased overall though, to the point I'm considering picking up their H11s to try in the low beams. No DRL concern there, just wondering how the light output would be from the projectors. If it turns out to be a messy cutoff with a lot of glare potential, I could always go right back to my TRS HIDs.
Trail-AMMO
New member
Thank you very much for your contribution, it's nice to read what I've explained previously from someone else...
Welcome to the board!
-A
gonefishing81
New member
Anyone purchase from DDM direct from a store in Cali? I tried calling today but was on hold for 10 min and had to go.
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Trail-AMMO
New member
I've felt with them via email and phone over the years. You can ask that your shipment be sent from the location in CA vs. drop ship as others have mentioned.
I have. I called to check availability but you might send an email to check or to have your question answered.
Also, as [MENTION=107788]Trail-AMMO[/MENTION] said, you can request to have your item shipped from CA reducing shipping times.
gonefishing81
New member
gonefishing81
New member
Just wanted to follow up. Here is the official response from DDM. I emailed them the same day I placed my order and received a tracking # today stating it was being shipped UPS ground. When I called DDM in Cali, they told me they had to ship UPS next day, 2day or 3day.
In the future, if you would like us to ship your order from our CA warehouse, after you place the order, you can send us a ticket right away to request US shipping. If we don't receive this special request, the order will be shipped out from our Chinese fulfillment center directly, which normally takes about 5-7 business days.
The other thing is when we ship it from our CA warehouse, if the shipping address is in CA too, we will have to collect the sales tax before shipping.
Best Regards,
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
In the future, if you would like us to ship your order from our CA warehouse, after you place the order, you can send us a ticket right away to request US shipping. If we don't receive this special request, the order will be shipped out from our Chinese fulfillment center directly, which normally takes about 5-7 business days.
The other thing is when we ship it from our CA warehouse, if the shipping address is in CA too, we will have to collect the sales tax before shipping.
Best Regards,
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
They even advertise these Pro units as having better compatibility for DRL. Sad to see the flickering is still there. Does anyone know of any options that maintain lower DRL brightness without a flicker?
XD offers a comparable unit with a harness for flickering, but I am unsure if it maintains the lower brightness of the DRLs or just disables that in favor of fully bright DRLs like DDM's solution seems to do. Hoping to find an LED solution that maintains a lower output DRL function. Not sure if that is out there.
TRD-Ferguson
New member
The problem is, unlike filaments, LEDs run at a very narrow voltage band, and can physically turn on/off very quickly. For dimming a filament based bulb, there are two options: 1) run a lower voltage, as some manufacturers do, in which case the DRL function won't work at all when replaced with LEDs, or 2) pulse the 12V DC power on and off at a high frequency. This is how Toyota does high beam DRLs. On a filament bulb, you don't notice a flicker, because the filament never fully cools before the next pulse hits it, and it never fully heats up before the pulse ends, so the result is less light output that is visually smooth. But because LEDs have the capability to turn on/off much more quickly, the human eye can perceive the pulsing when the OE filament bulbs are replaced with LED. The fix ultimately may not be on the bulb side. Both the frequency (how often the pulses occur) and pulse width (how long each pulse lasts, in the range of milliseconds) need to change to get a visually smooth DRL with LEDs with the factory DRL architecture.
So there is nothing that can be done at all about this and if you want LED in your DRL/highs, you have to deal with the flicker or remove the low output of the DRL all together?
Questions for those that have done these:
1) is the flicker really that noticeable/bad? Easy to live with?
2) is running your DRLs on high blinding to oncoming traffic? I would assume so and that this would be something to avoid.
Angelo
Member
1) It's noticeable.
2) Would you like to stare at LED HBs coming at you? There's your answer.
There's no good solution to LEDs in the 5th Gen. Unfortunately.
gundrted+t4r
New member
Fist off ... I LOVE your handle ... LOL
Also you are spot on the with the root cause of the issue. I have a BMW R1200GS with an LED tail light and it uses the same modulation tail 'dim' the brake light. In that case I was able to direct wire a police grill strobe that acts as a light/brake light due to the modulation. The pulsing in that case is not noticeable to the naked eye due to the pulse rate. If I record the tail with my cell phone, the phone will pick up the pulsing (as others have stated).
I don't have an electronics degree, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express. From what I understand from researching my 1200GS's electrical system is that the pulsing equates to about 6v vs the standard 12-ish volts. The result is a 'dimmed' bulb.
Has anyone tried a capacitor to smooth out the pulse pattern?
My thought is the cap would still be receiving 6v due to the pulsing and therefor charge to around 6v. The headlight would than draw form the cap. The cap would in theory have a 6v charge and release that charge in a controlled 'smooth' manor.
The only downside I can't think of is that flashing your high beams by be slowed by the charging/discharging of the cap. The high beams may stay on as the cap discharges back to 6v.
I got the idea from people running high powered audio systems with subs. When the subs boom they draw from a cap and not the vehicles electrical system.
Thoughts????
Does this mean that your BMW dims the brake light like this from the factory? Is this flickering/PWM something that OEMs are also doing to "dim" LEDs? If so, maybe it's not that noticeable because I've seen plenty of "dimmed" LEDs on OEM vehicles that look fine to my eye.
gundrted+t4r
New member
It all comes down to the bulb the PWM is designed to dim. As others have stated and incandescent bulb has a cool down time. This is why you break lights fade to off/on in most cars. Cars with LED tail lights are instant off/on. The PWD pattern for 'dimming' and LED is different than the pattern for an LED. This is why the 4Runners DLR seem to flicker to some people. If Toyota used a wave pattern for LEDs you wouldn't see any flicker unless you were recording it on camera.
On BWM motorcycles the CanBus (ECU or Computer) electrical system is very ... shall we say ... over engineered.
In my case the 09 R1200GS has an LED tail light. The light has three wires running to it ... Ground, Park and Break. The break circuit runs at 12v but is pulse modulated down to 6v. This happens all the time. When the breaks are pressed the CanBus (ECU or Computer) flips the break circuit to 12v and the break LEDs become full brightness.
Here is where the German part comes in. This is done, so I'm told, so if there is ever a fault in the parking light tail circuit, you still have lights in the rear of the motorcycle. You would need to have double failure (park and break circuits) in the rear electrical system to fully loose the rear facing light.
Installed these and Xenon Depot 5000k HIDs. I bought my DDM DRLs on Amazon and received them in no time with prime!
Mine also have the hyper flash but I don't mind them at all. Like many others have posted, these are super bright!
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Amazon free shipping may have just convinced me to give these a try and see what bothers me the least - hyper flashing or dim yellowish halogens.
I did look for some slow motion videos of cars with LED DRLs and on some of them you do notice a flickering. So maybe this is something even OEMs do and nobody cares. Although the BMWs and Audi's did not seem to flicker...
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