Delayed shifting when cold, yes I know its normal but.....

[thegipper]

what's really weird is the lock up solenoid is definitely shot based on my tests but I'm having no lock up issues at all...ever. It always locks up when it should and has never shuttered or went in and out of OD. I've even done several stall tests which passed like normal.

the pan was spotless again, no metal at all or anything other than brand new looking fluid.

the tranny continues to shift 100% normal once it shifts out of 1st when cold.

There is one test for the solenoids that I could perform. The FSM has you apply a certain amount of pressure with an air hose to test how well the solenoid is sealing. I don't have the equipment to do that. So maybe the other shift solenoids are actually bad also but pass the two other tests.

Either way, it's getting all new solenoids. For the love of god I hope this fixes it because I'm at a total loss here.

My brain hurts....

 

[LittleCaesar]

Thanks for keeping it live. Crossing my fingers that this is the fix. As cheap as a kit of new solenoids is, replace them all.

 

[thegipper]

Well guys, in my frustration and impatience, I screwed up.

The lock up solenoid isn't bad. It turns out, it actually stays open when there is no current applied to it. When current is applied, is when it closes. It does not make a distinct audible noise like the two shift solenoids. The two shift solenoids are the exact opposite, they stay closed when no current is applied.

I made a big assumption, and I was wrong. I went back and tested all three solenoids and all three passed both ohm and 12 power. I even made up a hose adapter to apply 70 psi to all three solenoids and all three passed without any air leaking.

At this point, I highly doubt any of my solenoids are bad. None fail any of the three tests. Of course in my haste, I already ordered new solenoids (FAIL).

I supposed I might as well put in the new solenoids when I get them, what do I have to lose at this point?

I mean, what next? Remove the valve body? Everything is spotless so I doubt there is any kind of blockage. Tranny pump failing? Tranny itself failing?

It starting to look more and more likely that the tranny itself is having some kind of issue beyond my abilities.

I'll just keep driving it I guess until it blows up. I've never heard of a transmission failing with my symptoms only. I could understand if I was having other issues as well but the damn thing works excellent other than the stupid stuck in 1st while cold.

So beyond frustrated.......

 

[T4R2014]

Change the solenoids and (can it hurt) try a different fluid like Maxlife or Castrol. At this point don't bother overthinking it. If it's going to die then that's life. Everything has a lifespan. I doubt it would die soon. My uncle drove his van with pitch black ATF and a 1-2 slip for 6 years. He's clueless like that. I had a mechanic drain and fill(after I went off on my uncle) it with new fluid and the slip is gone and it's still daily driven. That was two years ago and it's been fine since. What you don't know won't hurt you right?

 

[thegipper]

Change the solenoids and (can it hurt) try a different fluid like Maxlife or Castrol. At this point don't bother overthinking it. If it's going to die then that's life. Everything has a lifespan. I doubt it would die soon. My uncle drove his van with pitch black ATF and a 1-2 slip for 6 years. He's clueless like that. I had a mechanic drain and fill(after I went off on my uncle) it with new fluid and the slip is gone and it's still daily driven. That was two years ago and it's been fine since. What you don't know won't hurt you right?

Well changing fluids is about the only thing I haven't tried yet.

Menards by me sells Valvoline maxlife ATF for 5/quart. At this point, if the new solenoids and new fluid (better fluid than the cheaper fluid I'm using) doesn't fix it, so be it. It's not like I can't drive it, it's just super annoying to have to drive slow for a good 5 minutes before it warms up enough and eventually shifts out of 1st.

Also if the solenoids and new fluid doesn't fix it, I'll just keep my eye out for a new (used) tranny. I found a 99 with 104k miles for 300 bucks 20 minutes from my house. I was literally going to go buy it the same day I saw the ad but they sold it an hour before I called (my stupid luck).

the other silver lining is it is not my DD....

 

[T4R2014]

Well changing fluids is about the only thing I haven't tried yet.

Menards by me sells Valvoline maxlife ATF for 5/quart. At this point, if the new solenoids and new fluid (better fluid than the cheaper fluid I'm using) doesn't fix it, so be it. It's not like I can't drive it, it's just super annoying to have to drive slow for a good 5 minutes before it warms up enough and eventually shifts out of 1st.

Also if the solenoids and new fluid doesn't fix it, I'll just keep my eye out for a new (used) tranny. I found a 99 with 104k miles for 300 bucks 20 minutes from my house. I was literally going to go buy it the same day I saw the ad but they sold it an hour before I called (my stupid luck).

the other silver lining is it is not my DD....

No harm done right? I used to overthinking these things with my cars so bad. Feels great to not read T4R daily and go to sleep having nightmares over having transmission fluid that looks like strawberry Nesquick. If you let it warm up longer in the driveway before leaving then you can get past that. That's usually how I avoid the 2nd to 3rd delay if the highway is down my street. Wastes a little gas but it's a 4Runner right?

 

[thegipper]

I bought 12 quarts of valvoline max life synthetic ATF today. The new solenoids won't be here until Saturday (lame). I'm pretty sure it's not the solenoids since all three pass all three tests but I already ordered them and can't return them.

If after the solenoids and new fluid it is not fixed, there is one last test to be sure. I wish I would have done this awhile ago but live and learn I guess. You disconnect the solenoid connector on the outside of the tranny. This essentially turns it into a manual and it will only shift when you move the shift lever. If when I shift into 2 or D and it stays stuck in 1st, then I know 100% it is something mechanical and not electrical per the FSM. If it does shift out of 1st, then I know it is something electrical which would leave very few things left to check (ECM wires to solenoid connectors, maybe something else I missed).

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[thegipper]

I replaced all three solenoids and did a complete fluid exchange with valvoline max life ATF. Still stuck in 1st while cold.

At least now I know it is something mechanical within the transmission.

Once it warms up and shifts into second and so on, the tranny acts completely normal still with no issues at all.

Looks like I'll just have to live with it.

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[mtbtim]

I replaced all three solenoids and did a complete fluid exchange with valvoline max life ATF. Still stuck in 1st while cold.

At least now I know it is something mechanical within the transmission.

Once it warms up and shifts into second and so on, the tranny acts completely normal still with no issues at all.

Looks like I'll just have to live with it.

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I guess if the symptoms don't get any worse, it's a livable problem. But, if you take your rig on road trips, I'd have to imagine this problem wouldn't offer you a ton of confidence the transmission isn't going to completely implode on you and leave you stranded in Bum F*ck Egypt. If you do take long road trips, I'd just bite the bullet and replace it.

 

[thegipper]

The furthest I take it is about 2 hours away where I hunt. I agree, I wouldn't drive it on any long trips.

If it starts up to act up in any other way, I'll replace it.

 

[LittleCaesar]

Dang. I was hoping for the best. You probably can drive the 4runner another decade with no problems out of the transmission.

What is weird is that installing the new to you ECU cleared the problem a couple of times but then it came back.

 

[thegipper]

I still have to do the "unplug the solenoid connector" test per the FSM to completely eliminate the ECU and all electronics involved for shifting.

I can almost guarantee it will still do the same thing when manually shifting through the gears until it warms up.

There was a transmission post awhile ago where a guy was having the exact same problem and he took it in to a tranny shop. It ended up being some seal that failed and they were able to fix the seal and it fixed the problem. I quoted the guys post and asked if he could give some more details but never got a response. Hopefully I can find that post again and maybe send him a PM.

For now, I'll just live with it. If I start having any other signs of outright tranny failure, I'll just swap in a used one.

 

[thegipper]

The guy was Pritch421, I just sent him a PM. He was having pretty much the same exact problem and it was a seal in the tranny. It wasn't allowing enough pressure to build but once it warmed up, the pressure was high enough and it would shift again.

 

[Jason B]

Any luck yet?

My issue is... If I put my left turn signal on or right turn signal on that's what causes it to upshift and get confused with the gears, only when I put the turn signals on, any ideas? No check engine light either. Does this relate at all to anyone else in here?

Video of issue:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40fAGOfDr38

EDIT!!!!

It was the 3rd brake light! This bulb being burnt out made my truck shift erratically (triggers torque converter lockup) when puttin the turn signals on in the final drive gear at highway speeds. If this bulb burns out, beware of this.

 

[thegipper]

It's been awhile since I updated my post so here it goes.

Tranny still stays stuck in 1st until it warms up (160 degrees engine temp). Other than that, it still shifts 100% normal with zero other issues at all. No shuttering, flaring shifts, slipping, clunking, noises...nothing.

What has changed from when it originally started was it will kind of stay stuck in 1st (160deg mark ish) for a couple 1/2 shifts, for a couple times, then act totally normal again. When it gets hung up in 1st, if I let off the throttle or feather the throttle, it will shift.

Originally once it was warmed up, and it shifted out of 1st, it would never come back as long as it didn't sit for several hours.

the stuck in 1st shifting still doesn't come back unless it sits for several hours.

If I had to guess what is wrong I would say its the pump itself. My filter was clogged for awhile, which I didn't know, and eventually started making a whining noise until I figured out why. Once the filter was cleaned, the noise went away but I think it messed up the pump. I think the pressure isn't high enough for it to physically shift until its warmed up awhile and pressure has built up. I of course am not a tranny expert.

On another positive side note, I took it up north (2 hours away) to the land where I hunt and wheel. It was 90+ degrees and humid as hell that weekend and it did just fine on the trails. Again, not a single issue with the tranny other than the stuck in 1st while cold.

The saga continues......

PS. I'm keeping an eye out for a used tranny =)

 

[LittleCaesar]

Good luck with the search. If there is a bright side at least it is summer, so the tranny takes time to cool down.....

 

[thegipper]

It's been a little while so I'll update:

Tranny still has the same problem. It definitely has gotten worse, it takes even longer now for it to "warm up" enough to shift out of first.

It also will hang up in 1st for a few times whereas originally, it only hung up once per cold start then it wouldn't hang up anymore until it sat for several hours.

Otherwise, the tranny still acts completely normal. No other issues and it otherwise shifts and works great!

I have a 99 SR5 as a donor vehicle with a good tranny. I'll be swapping the tranny's over the next couple weeks. I actually already started pulling stuff on the 99, I may even get the tranny out by the end of the weekend.

 

[thegipper]

I just realized I never closed out this thread.

I ended up swapping in a used tranny and called it a day. Everything is back to normal now and clearly there was something wrong internally in the transmission.

New (used) tranny is working great and no issues at all.

P.S. My buddy has a 03 Tacoma that kept breaking flex plates. We thought maybe the torque converter was causing the flex plate to keep breaking. I gave him the flex plate from my donor motor and we used the torque converter from my old (bad) tranny.

What's funny is the torque converter for a tacoma and 4runner are different part numbers but appear to be nearly identical. We put it all back together and it worked perfect, no issues at all. So I at least know that the torque converter was not the cause of any of these issues I was having. My guess is still that the pump itself in the tranny was shot.

 

[mtbtim]

I just realized I never closed out this thread.

I ended up swapping in a used tranny and called it a day. Everything is back to normal now and clearly there was something wrong internally in the transmission.

New (used) tranny is working great and no issues at all.

P.S. My buddy has a 03 Tacoma that kept breaking flex plates. We thought maybe the torque converter was causing the flex plate to keep breaking. I gave him the flex plate from my donor motor and we used the torque converter from my old (bad) tranny.

What's funny is the torque converter for a tacoma and 4runner are different part numbers but appear to be nearly identical. We put it all back together and it worked perfect, no issues at all. So I at least know that the torque converter was not the cause of any of these issues I was having. My guess is still that the pump itself in the tranny was shot.

His problem could also play in the crankshaft output bearing. That extra play is putting stress on the flex plate causing it to crack.

 

[19963.4lsr5]

His problem could also play in the crankshaft output bearing. That extra play is putting stress on the flex plate causing it to crack.

Or his engine or trans was changed and there are not any alignment dowels in the bell housing or engine block.


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