Differences in Drum Brakes?

[skcolb]

I was replacing the shoes on the rear drum brakes on my 2001 this morning (one side is soaked in gear oil), and noticed that things were quite a bit different than online tutorials I'd seen. For instance, in [MENTION=120071]mtbtim[/MENTION]'s video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJkVEBYSecs

It was only after getting most of the way through one side that I realized that maybe things are different in a non-functional way.

My setup has an adjusting lever on the back side of the rear shoe (see first pic), instead of on the front side of the forward shoe with the parking brake lever. This seems to be non-self-adjusting. I can't work out the way that the parking brake action would bump the adjusting wheel (?).

Additionally, there's a hole in my parking brake lever where I think a return spring should go (?), but there was no spring there on either side (see second pic). Also, there's no pin sticking off the adjuster set to guide the adjuster lever.

So, I think I have two choices here:

1. Install a return spring on the parking brake lever. Rear brakes just won't be self-adjusting. (Unless someone can explain how these would be self-adjusting?)
2. Get a new adjuster lever and adjuster set parts to make it look right.

Are there differences between different years of 4Runners that would explain this? This blog post shows exactly the same setup as mine, on a 2001. No return spring and everything. It does appear that for the shoes, the 1996-2000 OEM P/N is 04495-35230 and the 2001-2002 OEM P/N is 04495-35250, and from the pics I can find, the latter does show a pin installed for the adjuster lever on the rear shoe....

Anybody able to shed some light on this? Is this setup self-adjusting? Do I need a return spring on the parking brake lever? Thanks!

 

[Unner]

I think you're missing some springs. Yours does not look the same as the pictures in that blog post. Here's what my 2001 looks like, yours should look the same. I see two springs on mine that I do not see on yours.

20180603_093933 by Unner Unner, on Flickr
20180603_093935 by Unner Unner, on Flickr
20180603_093937 by Unner Unner, on Flickr

I am almost positive there are no real differences in how the rear brakes are put together on any year 3rd gen.

 

[Scramble]

I just did my drums in May. Get this kit from Amazon. Has everything you need. Everything fits perfect with OEM shoes.

https://www.amazon.com/Raybestos-H1...automotive&vehicleId=3&vehicleType=automotive

 

[nobb]

Looks like someone rebuilt the hardware and didn't do it properly. Buy the proper hardware kits and redo it.

 

[Ricktuk]

I agree with the others here you are missing parts. without them they wont self adjust and they may drag causing premature wear.

on another note did you fix the rear seal while you had them off. brakes dont do much good when soaked in oil. And make sure to check your rear differential to make sure it hasnt leaked out too much

 

[Scramble]

I agree with the others here you are missing parts. without them they wont self adjust and they may drag causing premature wear.

on another note did you fix the rear seal while you had them off. brakes dont do much good when soaked in oil. And make sure to check your rear differential to make sure it hasnt leaked out too much

I was gonna say that but I'm assuming he fixed his axle seal leak. LOL

 

[mtbtim]

OP, I've seen your same set-up before helping someone with a rear axle seal job. It does appear you're missing the return spring though but I have seen the adjuster plate on the back side instead of the front side. I think this is how it came on your rig. I don't know for sure but I think for some reason Toyota uses a different adjuster style on some of the 3rd Gens. If you can upgrade to the style most of us have, which is the one in our video, that would be ideal.

 

[skcolb]

I think you're missing some springs. Yours does not look the same as the pictures in that blog post. Here's what my 2001 looks like, yours should look the same. I see two springs on mine that I do not see on yours.

My bad, I should have said that I didn't put that long main return spring that stretches between the two shoes back, which has those two portions of spring coils you show. It's a little bit difficult to take off and put on, so that was the point where I stepped back and decided to post.

It looks though that maybe the 2001-2002 are different. Here are the ones from the video which are from a 1996-2000 (they showed opposite side).

On the back side there's a return spring that both keeps the parking brake lever and the adjuster lever (which are on the same shoe) pulled back when the brake cable isn't taut.

I think that we might both be missing our return springs on the parking brake lever. I think this one from [MENTION=7105]Scramble[/MENTION]'s Amazon link should go here? Or does it not need a return spring since no one seems to have it?

Even with that though, how does our adjuster actually move the star wheel when the parking brake is pulled? It's pretty obvious on the 1996-2000 how the adjuster lever bumps the star wheel when it takes a lot of motion to engage the brake, but I've got to think about whether the rear shoe movement would do that.

on another note did you fix the rear seal while you had them off. brakes dont do much good when soaked in oil. And make sure to check your rear differential to make sure it hasnt leaked out too much

I was gonna say that but I'm assuming he fixed his axle seal leak. LOL

Haha actually not yet, still waiting on the seals in the mail but wanted to get a head start on this. I cleared and extended the breather and am going to replace the seals and change the diff oil ... don't have the time or motivation yet to do the retainer flip and bearing replacement that others recommend.

 

[skcolb]

OP, I've seen your same set-up before helping someone with a rear axle seal job. It does appear you're missing the return spring though but I have seen the adjuster plate on the back side instead of the front side. I think this is how it came on your rig. I don't know for sure but I think for some reason Toyota uses a different adjuster style on some of the 3rd Gens. If you can upgrade to the style most of us have, which is the one in our video, that would be ideal.

I should have mentioned that I was about the replace the main return spring when I thought something wasn't quite right and decided to post.

Do you know the P/Ns for the style that most have? It seems like a way better design, or at least I can't work out how my adjuster advances the star wheel over time.

 

[mtbtim]

I should have mentioned that I was about the replace the main return spring when I thought something wasn't quite right and decided to post.

Do you know the P/Ns for the style that most have? It seems like a way better design, or at least I can't work out how my adjuster advances the star wheel over time.

If I were you, I'd do an inventory search of the PickNPulls near you for 3rd Gen 4runner and 1st Gen Tacomas. You'll most likely find many near you and I'd go searching for one that still has the rear brakes intact. Strip off all the hardware from both sides and now you'll have the better set-up.

 

[OrRunner]

I have the same setup as OP, and also couldn’t figure out how the adjuster worked, but it does seem to work somehow because I was able the adjust the rear brakes by pulling the parking brake repeatedly.

 

[skcolb]

Maybe I just had to yak about this a little, I should have never doubted the brake designer gods.

I took a closer look at the back side adjuster lever and now it's more apparent how it actually does the adjusting. The fork has an extra pusher surface that hits the adjuster lever and raises it up. The lever's spring pushing on the fork helps return the big parking brake lever so it doesn't stick. It's all hidden once everything's installed up.

(This also reveals how bad the axle seal leak was.)

Sooo ... I should have just shut up and reassembled it how it was. But for what it's worth, the 2001-2002 4Runners seem to need a slightly different brake shoe P/N with a pin pressed into the rear shoe.

:deadhorse:

 

[mtbtim]

Maybe I just had to yak about this a little, I should have never doubted the brake designer gods.

I took a closer look at the back side adjuster lever and now it's more apparent how it actually does the adjusting. The fork has an extra pusher surface that hits the adjuster lever and raises it up. The lever's spring pushing on the fork helps return the big parking brake lever so it doesn't stick. It's all hidden once everything's installed up.

(This also reveals how bad the axle seal leak was.)

Sooo ... I should have just shut up and reassembled it how it was. But for what it's worth, the 2001-2002 4Runners seem to need a slightly different brake shoe P/N with a pin pressed into the rear shoe.

:deadhorse:

So are you saying all 01 and 02 models have this rear brake design?

 

[OrRunner]

My 02 limited 4wd did

 

[Scramble]

Thats weird because [MENTION=116387]Unner[/MENTION] has an 01 with the same design as the rest of us. I'm just guessing but I bet those are aftermarket shoes probably replaced by a mechanic in a shop.

 

[skcolb]

So are you saying all 01 and 02 models have this rear brake design?

It looks that way ... and I just went and found the relevant portion of the 2002 service manual, so yes I think they're all this way.

Thats weird because [MENTION=116387]Unner[/MENTION] has an 01 with the same design as the rest of us. I'm just guessing but I bet those are aftermarket shoes probably replaced by a mechanic in a shop.

It looks to me like Unner has the same design as me. I think I just confused things by not having the big return spring installed for my original pictures.

 

[Scramble]

ya learn something new every day!

 

[mtbtim]

It looks that way ... and I just went and found the relevant portion of the 2002 service manual, so yes I think they're all this way.


It looks to me like Unner has the same design as me. I think I just confused things by not having the big return spring installed for my original pictures.

I reckon [MENTION=102606]infamousRNR[/MENTION] and I might have to make a video of doing the rear brakes on an 01 or 02 then.

 

[Scoop'02]

Thanks for the post [MENTION=105603]skcolb[/MENTION]... Looks like have the same setup on my '02. R&R'd the e-brake bell cranks today (which were completely frozen up) and watched [MENTION=120071]mtbtim[/MENTION]'s rear brake shoe replacement video last night. When I pulled the drum this morning I thought my shoes were reversed.
pic is of passenger side...

One other thing I think worth mentioning is that with this setup you can't adjust the star wheel through the access hole in the backing plate using two screwdriver method since you would actually have to "pull" not push the adjusting lever away to spin the adjuster.

 

[Bad Luck]

One other thing I think worth mentioning is that with this setup you can't adjust the star wheel through the access hole in the backing plate using two screwdriver method since you would actually have to "pull" not push the adjusting lever away to spin the adjuster.

FWIW I angled a pocket screwdriver and was able to push the backside of the adjuster wheel down from a high angle to adjust it.