Disconnect X-RAES without leaking fluid?

[emelianenkov]

What's your end goal? Off-road capability? On-road capability? Looks?

I'm in the same boat as M1911 in that I have 100K on the clock and thinking my suspension is on borrowed time. However, it's 99% street and I drive it aggressively. I would hate to give up it's on-road ability.

My end goal is to kind of level off the front end, which I feel is sitting too low as it is right now.

and I also want to have the capability to do moderate off roading in New Hampshire. My issue with clearance is caused by my brush guard, which sticks down below the front bumper by about 3" (a little lower than the running boards)

The hard decision for me is whether or not to get rid of the XREAS, as most of my driving is on road, and I contend in street racing from time to time....

But my ultimate goal is to have a good balance of height and ride control/stability so I can navigate moderate terrain and also have solid handling, similar to the handling and minimal body roll achieved with the XREAS system.

 

[zimdba]

Did you get your Bilsteins yet? When do you plan on installing them?

 

[emelianenkov]

Did you get your Bilsteins yet? When do you plan on installing them?

I ordered them on eBay from Down South Motor Sports. Got the front and rears for $319 shipped! I should get them Friday or Saturday.

I plan on installing them when my XREAS leaks, which I'm anticipating will be soon. A few of my shocks are REALLY rusty.

I only have 39,000 miles, but I have rust on the undercarriage like the previous owner parked the truck in salt water up to the rocker panels. Ugh.

 

[zimdba]

I was reading up on ARK_SWAMP_RIDER's build thread. He has a lot of information on springs here. Additionally, there was this post on spring rates. Something to consider when you're removing the X-REAS. He's going for a lot more lift, but it sounded like the FJ Coils weren't getting the job done.

 

[emelianenkov]

I was reading up on ARK_SWAMP_RIDER's build thread. He has a lot of information on springs here. Additionally, there was this post on spring rates. Something to consider when you're removing the X-REAS. He's going for a lot more lift, but it sounded like the FJ Coils weren't getting the job done.

Thanks for the info! I just read the first page and I think I won't have as much of an issue because I'm only going to be running the fronts at 1.75" to level out the body. I probably will upgrade the springs at some point, but I don't want to add a bunch of lift just yet. I think the stock coils or the FJ coils would make the ride stiffer, eliminating some non-XREAS body roll. I just don't want ridiculous amounts of body roll like on stock 4Runners.

 

[ARK_SWAMP_RIDER]

I still believe the fj coils are a great mod. However, I'm just very picky. The omes were better with body roll but didn't ride as smooth. I think the fj coils are a great compromise on stiffness. The ow 2.0 kit I have now is perfect, it's like a combination of all the positives of the ome and fj coils, but it comes at a price. I had actually decided to go back to fj coils but then I talked the wife into the ow kit.

 

[FJones]

Noted.

I'll probably throw some FJ springs on as well to get more height and a slightly stiffer ride

I have some FJ cruiser front coils for sale if you're interested. I posted it up on the for sale section. $50 for the set and shipped on your dime. I'll have pics of the up tonight. They have less that 10,000 miles and are in pristine shape. No rust. Just lemme know

 

[emelianenkov]

I still believe the fj coils are a great mod. However, I'm just very picky. The omes were better with body roll but didn't ride as smooth. I think the fj coils are a great compromise on stiffness. The ow 2.0 kit I have now is perfect, it's like a combination of all the positives of the ome and fj coils, but it comes at a price. I had actually decided to go back to fj coils but then I talked the wife into the ow kit.

ASR I just read your build thread in my study block and I gotta say, your truck is lookin NICE!

I'd love to have a lift like yours, BUT: this is my daily driver, my dad is always on my back for ruining a perfectly good truck, my dad is an amputee and struggles to get into stock-height 4Runners (which is why he sold his '05 Limited), I'm still in high school and am making more from gauge swaps than I am from my actual job (not complaining), etc.. You get the picture!

My truck only has 39k miles, but the undercarriage probably has as much rust, if not more rust than most members on here, so even though XREAS has an anticipated lifespan of 80-120k, I'm convinced my rust is going to cause leaks sooner than that. I have a 10 year/100k extended warranty, but I'm not sure if premature XREAS failure due to severely rusted shocks would be covered. My mindset is; if it's gonna go sooner or later, why not be 'proactive' and pull the XREAS system now so I don't get a surprise down the road?

My dilemma is:
-I want a leveled front end, especially because my brush guard gives me horrible front-end clearance.
-(We all know) XREAS is only replaceable as a complete system.
-The only way to add lift to XREAS is to use spacers, which I've tried and can't install because the XREAS hose keeps me from dropping out the coilover assembly.

Here is the battle being waged inside my brain!

Pros of ditching XREAS:
-Can lift with Bilstein 5100's, causing less wear and stress on the front suspension components.
-No spacers

Cons of ditching XREAS:
-Depending on the shock setup I choose, I could have more or less body roll.
-Possibly voiding my warranty.
-Can't really switch back.
-Loss of aggressive handling.

I really want to keep my front end at 1.75" of lift to level the body, have a comparable ride to what I have now, with equal or less body roll.

Please help me make the right call!

 

[ARK_SWAMP_RIDER]

ASR I just read your build thread in my study block and I gotta say, your truck is lookin NICE!

I'd love to have a lift like yours, BUT: this is my daily driver, my dad is always on my back for ruining a perfectly good truck, my dad is an amputee and struggles to get into stock-height 4Runners (which is why he sold his '05 Limited), I'm still in high school and am making more from gauge swaps than I am from my actual job (not complaining), etc.. You get the picture!

My truck only has 39k miles, but the undercarriage probably has as much rust, if not more rust than most members on here, so even though XREAS has an anticipated lifespan of 80-120k, I'm convinced my rust is going to cause leaks sooner than that. I have a 10 year/100k extended warranty, but I'm not sure if premature XREAS failure due to severely rusted shocks would be covered. My mindset is; if it's gonna go sooner or later, why not be 'proactive' and pull the XREAS system now so I don't get a surprise down the road?

My dilemma is:
-I want a leveled front end, especially because my brush guard gives me horrible front-end clearance.
-(We all know) XREAS is only replaceable as a complete system.
-The only way to add lift to XREAS is to use spacers, which I've tried and can't install because the XREAS hose keeps me from dropping out the coilover assembly.

Here is the battle being waged inside my brain!

Pros of ditching XREAS:
-Can lift with Bilstein 5100's, causing less wear and stress on the front suspension components.
-No spacers

Cons of ditching XREAS:
-Depending on the shock setup I choose, I could have more or less body roll.
-Possibly voiding my warranty.
-Can't really switch back.
-Loss of aggressive handling.

I really want to keep my front end at 1.75" of lift to level the body, have a comparable ride to what I have now, with equal or less body roll.

Please help me make the right call!

Thanks, it's nothing crazy, but gets the job done for what I need. This is my 4th 4runner (had one of every generation) and definitely my favorite, although the 1st gen is a close second.

You've got it down pretty good. I remember adding the FJ coils to the stock xreas and it was a very noticeable improvement. I went from that to the 5100's/FJ coils and really didn't notice an "improvement". I had a little more nose dive/body roll. However, I'm nearly certain that it was still on par with stock xreas. I rode on the xreas/fj coils for a good while, so hard for me to make a direct comparison.

That said, I still am not quite sure what your problem was with the spacer install. I've done two spacer installs on xreas equipped 4runners without issues. It takes a little finesse to get it out where you can work on it, but very doable.

As far as voiding the warranty, I don't think you have any issues here. It would only be an issue if they could prove the shocks were the direct cause of the failure. I can't think of any warranty item that could be affected by the shocks. You'd be more likely to have warranty issues with a spacer lift than you would the 5100's.

Your concern about switching back brings up a good point. IMO this really shouldn't weigh in on your decision because of the severity of the rust. I don't have to deal with rust here in the south, so I'm not positive on this, but I highly doubt this would be covered under warranty. If it is, that'd be the only time this would be a concern for me.

I think you'd be hard pressed to beat the 5100's/FJ coils for the best bang for the buck. I would advise adding the FJ coils if at all possible. You should be able to pick them up for under $100 and I feel it's well worth it. You can talk to most on this forum who went from xreas to 5100s and/or FJ coils, you'll get positive feedback. Most say the handling is every bit as good if not better than before. Less nose dive/body roll and also no loss of aggressive handling. These people have a better comparison than I do since I didn't go directly from one to the other.

My first order of business would be to deal with the rust. You really need to get that under control before it crosses the point of no return. You may ask others here or talk to a dealer and see if there's a chance it would be covered under warranty. If not, I'd start gathering parts to do a 5100/FJ swap. Given the condition of the shocks, that's the best way to go IMO.

 

[emelianenkov]

Thanks, it's nothing crazy, but gets the job done for what I need. This is my 4th 4runner (had one of every generation) and definitely my favorite, although the 1st gen is a close second.

You've got it down pretty good. I remember adding the FJ coils to the stock xreas and it was a very noticeable improvement. I went from that to the 5100's/FJ coils and really didn't notice an "improvement". I had a little more nose dive/body roll. However, I'm nearly certain that it was still on par with stock xreas. I rode on the xreas/fj coils for a good while, so hard for me to make a direct comparison.

That said, I still am not quite sure what your problem was with the spacer install. I've done two spacer installs on xreas equipped 4runners without issues. It takes a little finesse to get it out where you can work on it, but very doable.

As far as voiding the warranty, I don't think you have any issues here. It would only be an issue if they could prove the shocks were the direct cause of the failure. I can't think of any warranty item that could be affected by the shocks. You'd be more likely to have warranty issues with a spacer lift than you would the 5100's.

Your concern about switching back brings up a good point. IMO this really shouldn't weigh in on your decision because of the severity of the rust. I don't have to deal with rust here in the south, so I'm not positive on this, but I highly doubt this would be covered under warranty. If it is, that'd be the only time this would be a concern for me.

I think you'd be hard pressed to beat the 5100's/FJ coils for the best bang for the buck. I would advise adding the FJ coils if at all possible. You should be able to pick them up for under $100 and I feel it's well worth it. You can talk to most on this forum who went from xreas to 5100s and/or FJ coils, you'll get positive feedback. Most say the handling is every bit as good if not better than before. Less nose dive/body roll and also no loss of aggressive handling. These people have a better comparison than I do since I didn't go directly from one to the other.

My first order of business would be to deal with the rust. You really need to get that under control before it crosses the point of no return. You may ask others here or talk to a dealer and see if there's a chance it would be covered under warranty. If not, I'd start gathering parts to do a 5100/FJ swap. Given the condition of the shocks, that's the best way to go IMO.

Thanks for the reassurance haha.

I already have 5100's for the front and rear coming in on Friday, and I think I'm gunna pick up some FJ coils for the front.

I wish I could take the body off the frame, sandblast everything, and hit the frame with bed liner to keep it rust-free.

I'm not concerned about the warranty, my dad is (-_-). Getting rid of the XREAS will just make my SE like an SR5 or Limited, but he doesn't get that.

I had issues with the spacers because of rust. It took me 4 attempts to finally get the ball joint separated! I had to cut the nut off.

I couldn't twist the shock to get that little pin out of the strut tower. After 4 failed attempts, 2 broken ratchet handles, and a broken finger (friggin pneumatic tools...), I decided to just give up on the daystar kit, sell it, and use that towards the Bilsteins. Not regretting it at all!

5100's and FJ coils it is!

Thanks,
Alex

 

[Desert Fox]

I have over 160,000 miles on my XREAS and they are doing fine

I've got a bunch of rust on my undercarriage as well.

I don't have the Bilsteins -- I've still got the XREAS on mine -- but with 115k miles, I suspect they are overdue for replacement. It is my understanding that stiffer shocks do not reduce roll in turns. I believe that the options to reduce roll in turns include:

- installing install stiffer springs
- installing stiffer anti-sway bars
- installing stiffer anti-sway bar bushings

Of course stiffer sway bars or bushings will reduce articulation offroad. That is why KDSS is so good -- it reduces sway but without reducing articulation.

 

[emelianenkov]

I have over 160,000 miles on my XREAS and they are doing fine

In the XREAS world, you are the 1%... #OccupyXREAS-Longevity :reddance:

 

[zimdba]

ASR-Your original statement had a bit stronger tone to it:

I loved the xreas/fj coil combo, but felt the 5100/fj coil combo was lacking. It was great in a straight line but suffered pretty badly with nose dive and body roll. I really didn't realize how bad it was until I got the OMEs put on. Current setup feels way better than stock. It stays super flat in turns, no dive when braking, and drives even smoother than before. I still have to get an alignment, but even with out that the ride is much improved.

Not trying to harsh you bro, but this seems like exactly what Alex is trying to avoid. Sounds like the OME 885 might be a better answer? Install OME 885 and keep the X-REAS and see where to go from there or go straight to OME 885/Bilsteins?

 

[emelianenkov]

ASR-Your original statement had a bit stronger tone to it:

I loved the xreas/fj coil combo, but felt the 5100/fj coil combo was lacking. It was great in a straight line but suffered pretty badly with nose dive and body roll. I really didn't realize how bad it was until I got the OMEs put on. Current setup feels way better than stock. It stays super flat in turns, no dive when braking, and drives even smoother than before. I still have to get an alignment, but even with out that the ride is much improved.

Not trying to harsh you bro, but this seems like exactly what Alex is trying to avoid. Sounds like the OME 885 might be a better answer? Install OME 885 and keep the X-REAS and see where to go from there or go straight to OME 885/Bilsteins?

+1 :wow: mind blown...

 

[ARK_SWAMP_RIDER]

ASR-Your original statement had a bit stronger tone to it:

I loved the xreas/fj coil combo, but felt the 5100/fj coil combo was lacking. It was great in a straight line but suffered pretty badly with nose dive and body roll. I really didn't realize how bad it was until I got the OMEs put on. Current setup feels way better than stock. It stays super flat in turns, no dive when braking, and drives even smoother than before. I still have to get an alignment, but even with out that the ride is much improved.

Not trying to harsh you bro, but this seems like exactly what Alex is trying to avoid. Sounds like the OME 885 might be a better answer? Install OME 885 and keep the X-REAS and see where to go from there or go straight to OME 885/Bilsteins?

Right you are, and I'm glad you pointed that out. I need to revise that. That was written based on initial impressions. After driving for several months, I really started to notice the added stiffness. Overall handling was excellent, it was just a little rough over bumps. Again, I'm super picky. Also, I'm thinking something may have beenoff with my setup. My 5100s were a different part number than what most use. I've tried looking up the part number with no luck. A local member had the same setup on his 05 sport (5100s and fj coils) and his was substantially better in body roll/nose dive. Riding in his is what sold me on making the switch from xreas to 5100s.

Its tough to say. My suggestion to him would be to add fj coils and a small spacer to his stock xreas. However, given the condition of his shocks and the amount of rust, I don't feel that this would hold up long enough to be worth the effort. If his shocks were in better condition, I'd most definitely suggest keeping xreas given the mileage.

 

[ARK_SWAMP_RIDER]

Hopefully the above clears things up. To keep the sporty handling, omes can be considered. There are two reasons I mentioned fj coils over the ome. First is his budget. The fj coils are way more affordable than the omes, and that was a big concern. Second, and most important, is the fact that his father is an amputee. He doesn't need the lift that goes with the omes so he can keep ride height lower for his father. That's my justification for the post suggesting the fj coils. I think they are the best compromise in his situation.

Another option is to just leave as is until the xreas actually fails. This would be the safest, but means no lift for the time being.

 

[emelianenkov]

Right you are, and I'm glad you pointed that out. I need to revise that. That was written based on initial impressions. After driving for several months, I really started to notice the added stiffness. Overall handling was excellent, it was just a little rough over bumps. Again, I'm super picky. Also, I'm thinking something may have beenoff with my setup. My 5100s were a different part number than what most use. I've tried looking up the part number with no luck. A local member had the same setup on his 05 sport (5100s and fj coils) and his was substantially better in body roll/nose dive. Riding in his is what sold me on making the switch from xreas to 5100s.

Its tough to say. My suggestion to him would be to add fj coils and a small spacer to his stock xreas. However, given the condition of his shocks and the amount of rust, I don't feel that this would hold up long enough to be worth the effort. If his shocks were in better condition, I'd most definitely suggest keeping xreas given the mileage.

That's what I decided on. I'm in no mood to deal with rust anymore. I'm debating on finding a way to exacerbate the rust on the left rear to "accidentally" cause a failure (so my dad has no choice but to say yes to my Bilstein swap). :shrug:

I have 5100's coming tomorrow, and am buying some front FJ coils with 10k on 'em to see how it will handle with the upgrades springs. I really don't want to have to change setups as many times as ASR has haha. Hopefully he's been the test subject and can supply all the data I need to choose the best setup.

I wish I didn't have to say goodbye to XREAS so soon

-Alex

 

[ARK_SWAMP_RIDER]

That's what I decided on. I'm in no mood to deal with rust anymore. I'm debating on finding a way to exacerbate the rust on the left rear to "accidentally" cause a failure (so my dad has no choice but to say yes to my Bilstein swap). :shrug:

I have 5100's coming tomorrow, and am buying some front FJ coils with 10k on 'em to see how it will handle with the upgrades springs. I really don't want to have to change setups as many times as ASR has haha. Hopefully he's been the test subject and can supply all the data I need to choose the best setup.

I wish I didn't have to say goodbye to XREAS so soon

-Alex

What year are the fj coils from? I hear the 2010+ coils are slightly bigger than the earlier models, I personally haven't compared the two though. If shoot for the newer ones given your concern.

Something I will mention is using Tacoma coils. They are closer in size to the omes. I picked up a set to try out but ended up with the ow kit instead. This is the only info I've found on the swap, something to consider.
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/suspension/71224-fj-vs-tacoma-springs.html

 

[ARK_SWAMP_RIDER]

Here's the impressions from a local member on the 5100/fj setup. His is what made me want them. See post 23(second page) to see my impressions after riding in his. Now more than ever I'm thinking something wasn't right on my 5100/fj setup because my results weren't as positive as others. I've rode in 12Guns `runner and it was much better than mine, no idea why.
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/80013-fj-springs-5100s-done-pics.html

 

[emelianenkov]

What year are the fj coils from? I hear the 2010+ coils are slightly bigger than the earlier models, I personally haven't compared the two though. If shoot for the newer ones given your concern.

Something I will mention is using Tacoma coils. They are closer in size to the omes. I picked up a set to try out but ended up with the ow kit instead. This is the only info I've found on the swap, something to consider.
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/suspension/71224-fj-vs-tacoma-springs.html

I want to say 2007? Not totally sure.

Now what that Tacoma spring thread got me thinking too; I bought a set of Bilstein 5100's for a Tacoma. http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem?itemId=330723578521&index=2&nav=WATCHING&nid=23150758226
Will that give me more lift? Or is it the same shock? I have way too many factors confusing me haha.

I know I want to run the 5100's regardless. I know I will have the FJ springs up front.

I'm just wondering if the Bilstein's for the taco are the same as the Bilstein's for the 4Runner.

Thank you all for your help and input! :hatsoff:
Alex