Does the rear spoiler do anything?

[TechWrench]

Re: Re: Spoiler Good

i disagree, and apparently I'm the only one - but I just don't like the way they look...

You are not alone.............

If you live in a snow belt, clearing the snow off the top is enough of a chore without the spoiler. I can just imagine having to work around one of those, in addition to the roof rack bars.

And, IMHO, they do nothing to enhance the appearance of the 4Runner. I would almost rather have one of the earlier flat black wings instead.

 

[TeCKis300]

Its called physics.

Spoilers create drag on the SUV. This drag is engineered for a purpose. So far everyone has given examples of the purposes of the drag. (keep rear window cleaner, less sulfer smell, downforce on rear wheels at high speed)

more drag = less mpg

You are missing a huge part of aerodynamics theory here. It might be counterintuitive, but a spoiler can actually grealy improve the drag of a vehicle by managing the airflow and turbulence behind it.

When a vehicle travels through air, it leaves a void or low pressure zone behind it. The effect of this low pressure zone is to "suck" the car back and creates drag. If you can smoothly reintegrate the air that the vehicle splits, it will minimize this low pressure zone and improve the drag coefficient.

I'd imagine that the spoiler actually improves the aerodynamics of the vehicle significantly and improves gas mileage at speed. It also serves the purpose of reducing turbulence and buffeting behind the vehicle.

 

[Fourty-four]

You are missing a huge part of aerodynamics theory here. It might be counterintuitive, but a spoiler can actually grealy improve the drag of a vehicle by managing the airflow and turbulence behind it.

When a vehicle travels through air, it leaves a void or low pressure zone behind it. The effect of this low pressure zone is to "suck" the car back and creates drag. If you can smoothly reintegrate the air that the vehicle splits, it will minimize this low pressure zone and improve the drag coefficient.

I'd imagine that the spoiler actually improves the aerodynamics of the vehicle significantly and improves gas mileage at speed. It also serves the purpose of reducing turbulence and buffeting behind the vehicle.

Ha ha ha ha---great theory, but I highly doubt that Toyota spent much time in a wind tunnel to design the rear spoiler for the purposes you mentioned. This is an SUV, not a ultra-high performance car.

Just as it would be impossible to show proof (Koz!) that the spoiler reduces fuel economy, it is also just as impossible to prove that it does not reduce fuel economy. Personally, I feel the spoiler is 100% cosmetic. That said, I think the '03 and '04 spoilers are much more appealing than the abortion on the '05 and '06 models. Just call me a hump hater

 

[Falls]

I could do without it !!

I guess I really dont mind having a litte spoiler but I think think the one on my 06 is to big and bulky

I never saw one without the spoiler though.

 

[toto]

I highly doubt that Toyota spent much time in a wind tunnel to design the rear spoiler for the purposes you mentioned. This is an SUV, not a ultra-high performance car.

You'd be surprised how much wind tunnel testing Toyota does with all models. They're looking for performance (as in more MPG), but also to reduce/eliminate wind noise from accessories like spoilers and roof racks.
Here's a case in point: the Lexus RX 330/350/400h has little square tabs in front of the front wheels. They're about 2 inches square, and they just hang there in front of the wheel well, roughly centered on the tire when it's facing forward. They're actually sort of funny looking, like something the dealer should have removed before selling the new car. The reason? To reduce drag around the front wheels.
I just noticed today that my 4Runner has similar bumps in the plastic covers behind the bumper near the front wheels. Not quite as obvious as the tabs on the Lexus, but I'm willing to bet the bumps are there for the same reason.

Oh yeah - I really like the look of the 05/06 spoiler. I have no scientific opinion on whether or not it's functional, though.

 

[Atomic 4Runner]

w/o a spoiler

I could do without it !! I guess I really dont mind having a litte spoiler but I think think the one on my 06 is to big and bulky. I never saw one without the spoiler though.

My special order is due to arrive mid-May, and one of the things I interntionally left off was the rear spoiler. As soon as it gets in, I'll be happy to post a photo of the 06 Limited without the spoiler.

 

[Uneek]

You'd be surprised how much wind tunnel testing Toyota does with all models. They're looking for performance (as in more MPG), but also to reduce/eliminate wind noise from accessories like spoilers and roof racks.
Here's a case in point: the Lexus RX 330/350/400h has little square tabs in front of the front wheels. They're about 2 inches square, and they just hang there in front of the wheel well, roughly centered on the tire when it's facing forward. They're actually sort of funny looking, like something the dealer should have removed before selling the new car. The reason? To reduce drag around the front wheels.
I just noticed today that my 4Runner has similar bumps in the plastic covers behind the bumper near the front wheels. Not quite as obvious as the tabs on the Lexus, but I'm willing to bet the bumps are there for the same reason.

Oh yeah - I really like the look of the 05/06 spoiler. I have no scientific opinion on whether or not it's functional, though.

I also think Toyota does put a greater deal into the spoiler than we know. The RX300 had two different spoiler versions. One looked more like the 2nd/3rd gen 4Rs, more like wind deflector and the newer looks like our 4th gen spoilers.

IMO, not many other SUVs out there have the rear spoiler on them. But Toyota's with them sure look good and ones without them look a little "naked" to me. To each and their own.

 

[Koz]

You are missing a huge part of aerodynamics theory here. It might be counterintuitive, but a spoiler can actually grealy improve the drag of a vehicle by managing the airflow and turbulence behind it.

When a vehicle travels through air, it leaves a void or low pressure zone behind it. The effect of this low pressure zone is to "suck" the car back and creates drag. If you can smoothly reintegrate the air that the vehicle splits, it will minimize this low pressure zone and improve the drag coefficient.

I'd imagine that the spoiler actually improves the aerodynamics of the vehicle significantly and improves gas mileage at speed. It also serves the purpose of reducing turbulence and buffeting behind the vehicle.

You are absolutely correct.

There is a night and day difference between a tail/wing spoiler and a roof-line spoiler and have two entirely different purposes. The tail spoiler is intended to create down force to increase traction and stability. A roof line spoiler does exactly what TeCKis300 stated.

Again, a good designed roof spoiler that is aligned with the top of the roof, carefully arranged in the area of the rear edge of the roof above the rear window, will cause the rear-end separation edge of the airflow to shift toward the rear and thus the dead zone behind the vehicle is reduced, which improves air resistance. This means that the roof spoiler could possibly help reduce air resistance at high speed.

Koz

 

[Fourty-four]

Let us know if it works at 150 mph. Oh, wait, you'll never get near that with a 4Runner. Nevermind.:bash: :

 

[toto]

You don't have to go 150 to get benefits from the spoiler, assuming there are some.

Along this thread of aerodynamics, there's a common myth that was debunked on Mythbusters - the idea of driving a pickup truck with the tailgate open or with a net instead of a tailgate will get better gas mileage.

Common thought is that the tailgate creates drag, so you should get better mileage with it open or without one. In fact, they proved the opposite is true (at 55 mph, not 150). Without the tailgate, there's a bigger low pressure zone behind the truck, and you actually get WORSE gas mileage. With a tailgate, the bed fills with an air circulation that helps displaced air to flow around the back of the truck more smoothly.

 

[jeober]

The spoiler is ornamental. It has no function at posted speed limits. But I like the look on a lot of cars -- maybe not so much on the 4runner.

If the spoiler improved mileage enough to show on the car sticker it would be a standard item. If the spoiler reduced air noise enough to perceive it would be a standard item. If the spoiler improve air flow across the rear windshield enough to eliminate the rear wiper it would be standard item.

Certainly Toyota validated their cars with the spoiler accessory but my automotive engineering guess is that they were interested more in any negatives the spoiler introduced, esp wind noise.

 

[spyne]

Re: Re: Spoiler Good

i disagree, and apparently I'm the only one - but I just don't like the way they look...

Another vote for the wingless look. I've owned my 4Runner for three years and I still wish it did not have the spoiler, or the sunroof, for that matter. However,I didn't want to special order the truck and there were no Limited's anywhere that didn't have one or the other.

 

[OUTRNNR]

The spoiler is ornamental. It has no function at posted speed limits. But I like the look on a lot of cars -- maybe not so much on the 4runner.

If the spoiler improved mileage enough to show on the car sticker it would be a standard item. If the spoiler reduced air noise enough to perceive it would be a standard item. If the spoiler improve air flow across the rear windshield enough to eliminate the rear wiper it would be standard item.

Certainly Toyota validated their cars with the spoiler accessory but my automotive engineering guess is that they were interested more in any negatives the spoiler introduced, esp wind noise.

Here we go again with this retarded spoiler talk, I guess everytime someone brings it up everyone has to sound off, so here I go again...

The redesigned rear spoiler ('05+) is functional. It is designed to deflect air on to the rear window and liftgate to do a couple different things.

1) Since the rear of the 4runner is relatively vertical, there happens to be alot of turbulence directly behind the vehicle. This turbulence picks up road dust/mist and plasters it to the rear of the liftgate and window which can obstruct the view through the rear window in certain conditions like driving down a muddy dirt road that is normally very dusty when dry (lots of mud mist from road, fine grain dirt). As a result of this, it uses deflected air to keep the rear window clear of water/dust/mud without needing to use the rear wiper (speeds greater than 20 mph). This is especially useful when driving in snowy/muddy/dirty conditions because unless you want the rear window really clean, it makes it possbile to see out the rear window regardless of the weather.

2) Some have speculated that another function is to reduce the exhaust fumes from entering the rear window. From my experience, this has proven to be somewhat unsuccessful, but I've never driven a 4th gen without a spoiler, so I wouldn't know.

3) The rear spoiler adds a larger, brighter LED 3rd brakelight.

As for looks, everyone has a different opinion so whatever. I think it looks good. the new spoilers do look a bit more "chunky" because of the hump, but anyone who doesn't know there is a difference, wouldn't notice one style from the other.

As for windtunnel testing, I can guarantee you the spoiler was windtested and optimized. Yeah, its not a race car, but Toyota does care about minimizing drag and increasing fuel economy so I'm sure they wouldn't have just slapped something on there without seeing how its drag profile looked in a wind tunnel, no way. As for actually reducing drag (Mythbusters tailgate theory), I'd be interested to see if it acutally worked.

Just for the record, the spoiler does come standard in CO, if you don't want it, it has to be removed because all 4Runners have them.

My >.02 cents. I've had enough of these spoiler arguments, don't you agree Koz?

 

[DarksideSurf]

Just for the record, the spoiler does come standard in CO, if you don't want it, it has to be removed because all 4Runners have them.

I wish that was true. My 4Runner didn't come with one, infact a lot of the ones on the lot a John Elway Toyota didn't have a spoiler. I found that to be odd.

 

[OUTRNNR]

I wish that was true. My 4Runner didn't come with one, infact a lot of the ones on the lot a John Elway Toyota didn't have a spoiler. I found that to be odd.

Hmm, that is odd, seems like every lot I drive by they all have spoilers. I wasn't basing my claim off of this though; my sticker that was on my 4R doesn't list the spoiler in the option section, so that leads me to believe its standard.

 

[pipspeak]

Hmm, that is odd, seems like every lot I drive by they all have spoilers. I wasn't basing my claim off of this though; my sticker that was on my 4R doesn't list the spoiler in the option section, so that leads me to believe its standard.

I rarely see a late-model 4runner without a spoiler either. The only used models (04 and 05) I've seen without spoilers were previously rental vehicles. Go figure!

 

[Fourty-four]

No matter what you guys say, there's no way the spoiler (even the big-hump '05+version) would force enough air down to do anything to the rear glass. Sorry, but it would take serious speed (and air pressure) to do anything worthwhile at all.

If it makes you feel better to think you have a functional spoiler, then go right ahead keep singing its praises.

I, for one, know better.

 

[OUTRNNR]

No matter what you guys say, there's no way the spoiler (even the big-hump '05+version) would force enough air down to do anything to the rear glass. Sorry, but it would take serious speed (and air pressure) to do anything worthwhile at all.

If it makes you feel better to think you have a functional spoiler, then go right ahead keep singing its praises.

I, for one, know better.

OK, Fourty Four, looks like you finally outsmarted all of us...

 

[Koz]

Here we go again with this retarded spoiler talk, I guess everytime someone brings it up everyone has to sound off, so here I go again...

The redesigned rear spoiler ('05+) is functional. It is designed to deflect air on to the rear window and liftgate to do a couple different things.

1) Since the rear of the 4runner is relatively vertical, there happens to be alot of turbulence directly behind the vehicle. This turbulence picks up road dust/mist and plasters it to the rear of the liftgate and window which can obstruct the view through the rear window in certain conditions like driving down a muddy dirt road that is normally very dusty when dry (lots of mud mist from road, fine grain dirt). As a result of this, it uses deflected air to keep the rear window clear of water/dust/mud without needing to use the rear wiper (speeds greater than 20 mph). This is especially useful when driving in snowy/muddy/dirty conditions because unless you want the rear window really clean, it makes it possbile to see out the rear window regardless of the weather.

2) Some have speculated that another function is to reduce the exhaust fumes from entering the rear window. From my experience, this has proven to be somewhat unsuccessful, but I've never driven a 4th gen without a spoiler, so I wouldn't know.

3) The rear spoiler adds a larger, brighter LED 3rd brakelight.

As for looks, everyone has a different opinion so whatever. I think it looks good. the new spoilers do look a bit more "chunky" because of the hump, but anyone who doesn't know there is a difference, wouldn't notice one style from the other.

As for windtunnel testing, I can guarantee you the spoiler was windtested and optimized. Yeah, its not a race car, but Toyota does care about minimizing drag and increasing fuel economy so I'm sure they wouldn't have just slapped something on there without seeing how its drag profile looked in a wind tunnel, no way. As for actually reducing drag (Mythbusters tailgate theory), I'd be interested to see if it acutally worked.

Just for the record, the spoiler does come standard in CO, if you don't want it, it has to be removed because all 4Runners have them.

My >.02 cents. I've had enough of these spoiler arguments, don't you agree Koz?

:iagree: 100%

This is like the synthetic/tire brand/oil brand debates!

Koz

 

[Fourty-four]

OK, Fourty Four, looks like you finally outsmarted all of us...

Nah.... not me. Simply the logic speaking.