Doubts of 6th Gen, Lexus, Land Crusier Hybrids

[MrTom]

Havent seen any of the new 2025 hybrids so woundering where are the spre tire is being placed and is it full size?

Secondly from a GearJunkie.com review of the new 2025 Lexus LX700H they indicate...
"while most Toyota and Lexus hybrids use only an electric motor to drive the rear tires, this one uses a real driveshaft and rear axle. Like the system used on Toyota pickups, this stands as a real 4×4 beast."...

Will be interesting to see what the new hybrid 4Runner TraiHunter will use for a 4x4 system.

 

[trainman605]

Pretty sure the 2025 4 Runner spare is under the vehicle and is a full size spare. I did see the new Land Cruiser but did not look under it and it is a hybrid. I feel pretty sure the Land Cruiser spare is under the vehicle like the 4 Runner. Do note hybrids in these models the battery space is on top of the rear floor area, thus taking up space in the cargo area. Any vehicle that is a 4-wheel drive and has a smaller spare then the other wheels and tires on the vehicle would be pretty much a NO NO for off-roading. I would think that the Lexus SUV models are the same with the full-size spare, even my wife's RX 350 has a full-size spare.

 

[Jeff_DML]

Pretty sure the 2025 4 Runner spare is under the vehicle and is a full size spare. I did see the new Land Cruiser but did not look under it and it is a hybrid. I feel pretty sure the Land Cruiser spare is under the vehicle like the 4 Runner. Do note hybrids in these models the battery space is on top of the rear floor area, thus taking up space in the cargo area. Any vehicle that is a 4-wheel drive and has a smaller spare then the other wheels and tires on the vehicle would be pretty much a NO NO for off-roading. I would think that the Lexus SUV models are the same with the full-size spare, even my wife's RX 350 has a full-size spare.

I thought the new 4th gen tacoma has a smaller sized spare tire on at least some trims but I think it might be cost cutting and not room reasons.

 

[MrTom]

From photos of new hybrid Land Cruiser and 4Runner TRD PRO it appears they have a full size spare located under the cargo area They look ,at least to me, to be hanging a bit lower than current 4Runners.

No info yet as to the 4x4 system setup. Not sure if it set up as I indicated in original post( ICE front,electriic by wire rear.) That and longivity of new turbo engines is my main concen. I had a 1980 280ZX Turbo and a 1988 Supra Turbo. Both had head gasket failure in less than 50k miles, but of course the new engines and turbos should be more reliable.

Time will tell . Thats why I am inclined to wait for at least a year.
..

 

[thatoneguy]

From photos of new hybrid Land Cruiser and 4Runner TRD PRO it appears they have a full size spare located under the cargo area They look ,at least to me, to be hanging a bit lower than current 4Runners.

No info yet as to the 4x4 system setup. Not sure if it set up as I indicated in original post( ICE front,electriic by wire rear.) That and longivity of new turbo engines is my main concen. I had a 1980 280ZX Turbo and a 1988 Supra Turbo. Both had head gasket failure in less than 50k miles, but of course the new engines and turbos should be more reliable.

Time will tell . Thats why I am inclined to wait for at least a year.
..

I think the main constant with the hybrids is that they are not going to offer part-time 4WD with them--full-time only. That's a two-speed full-time-4WD transfer case with a nominal 30/70 front/rear torque split, and a lockable Torsen center differential, so basically what a 5th gen 4Runner Limited or GX460 already had. That's what the Land Cruiser 250 has as standard, and what you get on the hybrid version of the 2024 Tacoma and upcoming 2025 4Runner if I recall correctly.

I think it's good to also remember that turbo technology and know-how has come a LONG way from the infamous 1980's applications. I personally am not afraid of their new 2.4L turbo/hybrid corporate small truck engine. It appears to have been appropriately designed and overbuilt nice and beefy. They knew what was on the line with this new engine family.

I love my 2023 4Runner, so I'm in no rush to upgrade. However, ask me again around 2028, and the shiny new things might start looking appealing to me, provided the reliability was observed as good by that time.

 

[Jeff_DML]

I think the main constant with the hybrids is that they are not going to offer part-time 4WD with them--full-time only. That's a two-speed full-time-4WD transfer case with a nominal 30/70 front/rear torque split, and a lockable Torsen center differential, so basically what a 5th gen 4Runner Limited or GX460 already had. That's what the Land Cruiser 250 has as standard, and what you get on the hybrid version of the 2024 Tacoma and upcoming 2025 4Runner if I recall correctly.

I think it's good to also remember that turbo technology and know-how has come a LONG way from the infamous 1980's applications. I personally am not afraid of their new 2.4L turbo/hybrid corporate small truck engine. It appears to have been appropriately designed and overbuilt nice and beefy. They knew what was on the line with this new engine family.

I love my 2023 4Runner, so I'm in no rush to upgrade. However, ask me again around 2028, and the shiny new things might start looking appealing to me, provided the reliability was observed as good by that time.

Sorry, that is not correct. TRP pro Tacoma is part time and is a hybrid

4WDemand part-time 4-Wheel Drive

Build Your Own Toyota | Toyota Configurator

Pretty sure the new 4r is the same setup. Just the limited and probaby Platium offers awd. I think Toyota is trying to use awd for why the LC250 and 4runner are different(besides looks)

 

[thatoneguy]

Sorry, that is not correct. TRP pro Tacoma is part time and is a hybrid



Build Your Own Toyota | Toyota Configurator

Pretty sure the new 4r is the same setup. Just the limited and probaby Platium offers awd. I think Toyota is trying to use awd for why the LC250 and 4runner are different(besides looks)

Interesting. Thank you, I stand corrected.

As far as the OP, no Toyota heavy duty truck/suv 4x4 system would use a front-wheel-drive-based "on-demand" all wheel drive setup of any sort. Certainly not one that would only supply rear power by electric motor. These are not their crossovers/vans (which do that with "e-awd"), these are body on frame trucks that are rear wheel drive first. Rear wheels get engine/hybrid power 100% of the time, and the front wheels get power under certain situations and settings.

 

[trainman605]

It's going to be interesting to see how the 2.4 Turbos, new transmissions, and Hybrids work out in the new vehicles, 4-Runner and Land Cruiser. I say this because the new Tacoma's are having several problems with the new vehicles and they are not selling, cost is also a big factor as well as taking the V6 and 5-spd trans out of vehicles that have proven themselves over the past 15-20 years. Remember these two vehicles sold because of the reliability and high mileage that these vehicles were known for, now Toyota has thrown monkey a wrench into their new models and so far there have been problems with these new vehicles. For those of you who watch "The Car Care Nut" on YouTube he does go into the new Turbo engines longevity and repair cost is going to much higher than the old V6 engines. For wife and me (2022 Lexus RX 350 and 2024 Toyota 4-Runner) we are set for the future, so Turbos and 4-cylinder engine are out for the time being, but when the time comes, I hope this engine thing has worked itself out. :clock: is ticking.

 

[thatoneguy]

It's going to be interesting to see how the 2.4 Turbos, new transmissions, and Hybrids work out in the new vehicles, 4-Runner and Land Cruiser. I say this because the new Tacoma's are having several problems with the new vehicles and they are not selling, cost is also a big factor as well as taking the V6 and 5-spd trans out of vehicles that have proven themselves over the past 15-20 years. Remember these two vehicles sold because of the reliability and high mileage that these vehicles were known for, now Toyota has thrown monkey a wrench into their new models and so far there have been problems with these new vehicles. For those of you who watch "The Car Care Nut" on YouTube he does go into the new Turbo engines longevity and repair cost is going to much higher than the old V6 engines. For wife and me (2022 Lexus RX 350 and 2024 Toyota 4-Runner) we are set for the future, so Turbos and 4-cylinder engine are out for the time being, but when the time comes, I hope this engine thing has worked itself out. :clock: is ticking.

We've heard this kind of worry repeated by a lot of old school Toyota owners.

Clearly taking the archaic 5-speed out didn't kill sales, because 6AT 2016-2023 Tacomas sold like hotcakes. I expect the 8-speed to be reliable, and anybody that has driven it confirms it has superior drivability over the older automatics. "2024 Tacoma problems" have been blown out of proportion by people dogpiling on like 20 trans failures across 100,000 first-year trucks sold.

After a new generation rollout that slowed things down for a few months, Tacoma sales are pretty much back where they were... 18-20k/month in the US. Hardly languishing on lots, although $1-3k dealer discounts are happening. The Land Cruiser 250 appears to be what buyers wanted; it's sold 18k so far this year, something like triple what any preceding Land Cruiser ever pulled off in the US in a year.

Car Care Nut must have some faith in Toyota, he bought a 2024 Tundra.

I really wouldn't worry about the new powertrains. Let others buy them, and they will in spades, and check back in in a couple years.

 

[trainman605]

We've heard this kind of worry repeated by a lot of old school Toyota owners.

Clearly taking the archaic 5-speed out didn't kill sales, because 6AT 2016-2023 Tacomas sold like hotcakes. I expect the 8-speed to be reliable, and anybody that has driven it confirms it has superior drivability over the older automatics. "2024 Tacoma problems" have been blown out of proportion by people dogpiling on like 20 trans failures across 100,000 first-year trucks sold.

After a new generation rollout that slowed things down for a few months, Tacoma sales are pretty much back where they were... 18-20k/month in the US. Hardly languishing on lots, although $1-3k dealer discounts are happening. The Land Cruiser 250 appears to be what buyers wanted; it's sold 18k so far this year, something like triple what any preceding Land Cruiser ever pulled off in the US in a year.

Car Care Nut must have some faith in Toyota, he bought a 2024 Tundra.

I really wouldn't worry about the new powertrains. Let others buy them, and they will in spades, and check back in in a couple years.

I think your thoughts are what all loyal Toyota owners would like to see happen in the future and as of now many goings on with Toyota will in most cases be worked out in the future. My biggest gripe with Toyota is that they decided to put the 2.4 Turbo in so many models all at once, including some Lexus models. My personal feeling on small engines that they boost the HP through Turbo system, is no way going to give the life that a V6 FI engine has over time. I guess the future will give us our answer on this.

 

[thatoneguy]

I think your thoughts are what all loyal Toyota owners would like to see happen in the future and as of now many goings on with Toyota will in most cases be worked out in the future. My biggest gripe with Toyota is that they decided to put the 2.4 Turbo in so many models all at once, including some Lexus models. My personal feeling on small engines that they boost the HP through Turbo system, is no way going to give the life that a V6 FI engine has over time. I guess the future will give us our answer on this.

IMO it's possible to overbuild just about any given technology and make it work, make it reliable. There's no mechanical reason you can't build a 400,000 mile boosted gas engine. You just have to commit to designing and manufacturing it thoroughly and correctly.

To me, them moving to this 2.4L "corporate" engine in everything comes across as faith that they KNEW they got it right, that they did their homework and knew what was on the line if they didn't. Keep in mind there's variations of this 2.4L, the ones going in the crossovers are not mechanically identical.

I look forward to experiencing the torque they offer, especially the hybrid.

 

[Quentin]

IMO it's possible to overbuild just about any given technology and make it work, make it reliable. There's no mechanical reason you can't build a 400,000 mile boosted gas engine. You just have to commit to designing and manufacturing it thoroughly and correctly.

To me, them moving to this 2.4L "corporate" engine in everything comes across as faith that they KNEW they got it right, that they did their homework and knew what was on the line if they didn't. Keep in mind there's variations of this 2.4L, the ones going in the crossovers are not mechanically identical.

I look forward to experiencing the torque they offer, especially the hybrid.

This. I have owned/driven a number of turbo and hybrid vehicles over the years and the instant response from low end torque (provided by DI turbo or electric motor) makes for a much more pleasant daily driver. My experience is people that drive somewhat sane are mostly off boost when driving around normally. The turbo plays around at no/partial boost most of the time, so it isn't really stressing the engine until you bury the throttle. And even then, as long as the bearings and combustion chamber were designed correctly and the cooling system was designed correctly, it should be fine.

My 4Runner lease is up in Feb and I don't plan on replacing it with another 4Runner... right now. The reason being that I don't think I'll be able to get a 6th gen easily and I'm testing out if I really need a big, BOF SUV. I've had a 4Runner more or less since 2010, but it seems kinda excessive capability for how I've been using my vehicles lately. I'm seeing if I can simplify life a little bit. If I miss it, I'll jump on a 6th gen 4Runner or a Land Cruiser. My brother got a new Land Cruiser a couple months back and it is a ****ing impressive vehicle.

 

[AZ Craig]

This. I have owned/driven a number of turbo and hybrid vehicles over the years and the instant response from low end torque (provided by DI turbo or electric motor) makes for a much more pleasant daily driver. My experience is people that drive somewhat sane are mostly off boost when driving around normally. The turbo plays around at no/partial boost most of the time, so it isn't really stressing the engine until you bury the throttle. And even then, as long as the bearings and combustion chamber were designed correctly and the cooling system was designed correctly, it should be fine.

My 4Runner lease is up in Feb and I don't plan on replacing it with another 4Runner... right now. The reason being that I don't think I'll be able to get a 6th gen easily and I'm testing out if I really need a big, BOF SUV. I've had a 4Runner more or less since 2010, but it seems kinda excessive capability for how I've been using my vehicles lately. I'm seeing if I can simplify life a little bit. If I miss it, I'll jump on a 6th gen 4Runner or a Land Cruiser. My brother got a new Land Cruiser a couple months back and it is a ****ing impressive vehicle.

So my Bronco Raptor is the 4th forced induction vehicle I've had (2020 Land Rover Discovery Sport P290, 2016 VW Golf R, and a 2012 Audi TT-S). To be completely honest, I've enjoyed every one of these vehicles more than the cars I had with naturally aspirated V6/I6 engines (2 Toyota 4Runners, a Jeep Wrangler JKU, and a 2004 GMC Envoy). The power bands are just fantastic and the simple fact is that my V6 twin turbo 3.0 in my Raptor is getting very similar gas mileage to my 2016 and 2020 4Runners with almost 150 more horse power and 200 pound feet more torque.

Yes, technology can make things complicated. But good engineering is good engineering.

 

[esto70]

I don't plan on replacing it with another 4Runner... right now. The reason being that I don't think I'll be able to get a 6th gen easily and I'm testing out if I really need a big, BOF SUV. I've had a 4Runner more or less since 2010, but it seems kinda excessive capability for how I've been using my vehicles lately.

Quentin,

A little off topic from this thread, but...I've been a 4Runner owner since 2005. I've owned a 2005 SR5, and 2010 and 2013 Limiteds. I love 4Runners and Toyota trucks in general.

I know this is sacrilege here, but in 2020 I traded in my '13 4R Limited for a new 2020 Honda Passport Elite. For those who don't know, the passport is marketed as a 2-row off-road oriented mid-size SUV. Basically, it's a Pilot for people who don't want to be seen driving a pilot. I honestly love my passport. It's SUPER quiet. I get 25-27 mpg on the highway with the stock tires and 3.5L v6. I can cram a ridiculous amount of mountain bikes and gear in that thing and road trip all summer. It's an amazing road trip vehicle.

There's a completely new passport coming out next year that I'm excited about. It's going to keep the traditional 3.5L v6 and pick up some new off road goodies. No, it's not body-on-frame. It's a crossover and not a real truck. But if you're looking for something a little more tame, road friendly, and family friendly, the passport fills that niche pretty nicely.

 

[trainman605]

Quentin,

A little off topic from this thread, but...I've been a 4Runner owner since 2005. I've owned a 2005 SR5, and 2010 and 2013 Limiteds. I love 4Runners and Toyota trucks in general.

I know this is sacrilege here, but in 2020 I traded in my '13 4R Limited for a new 2020 Honda Passport Elite. For those who don't know, the passport is marketed as a 2-row off-road oriented mid-size SUV. Basically, it's a Pilot for people who don't want to be seen driving a pilot. I honestly love my passport. It's SUPER quiet. I get 25-27 mpg on the highway with the stock tires and 3.5L v6. I can cram a ridiculous amount of mountain bikes and gear in that thing and road trip all summer. It's an amazing road trip vehicle.

There's a completely new passport coming out next year that I'm excited about. It's going to keep the traditional 3.5L v6 and pick up some new off road goodies. No, it's not body-on-frame. It's a crossover and not a real truck. But if you're looking for something a little more tame, road friendly, and family friendly, the passport fills that niche pretty nicely.

My wife and I both came from Honda's, an Acura RLX and a Ridgeline. Today we are driving the 2021 Lexus RX 350 and the 2024 Gen 5 4 Runner. All have been V6's with the standard FI engines, all got very good fuel mileage and no problems whatsoever, so why does Toyota now have to put the 2.4 engines in everything, it sure wasn't to improve fuel mileage over the Honda's. If Toyota doesn't go back to V6's and Honda still builds the FI V6 I will probably return to Honda's when it comes time to replace the Toyota vehicles.

 

[thatoneguy]

My wife and I both came from Honda's, an Acura RLX and a Ridgeline. Today we are driving the 2021 Lexus RX 350 and the 2024 Gen 5 4 Runner. All have been V6's with the standard FI engines, all got very good fuel mileage and no problems whatsoever, so why does Toyota now have to put the 2.4 engines in everything, it sure wasn't to improve fuel mileage over the Honda's. If Toyota doesn't go back to V6's and Honda still builds the FI V6 I will probably return to Honda's when it comes time to replace the Toyota vehicles.

The 2.4's do have considerable efficiency gains over their older 3.5L and 4.0L V6's, doubly so when hybridized. They also meet modern emissions standards, which is something Toyota has to consider. The 1GR 4.0L was emissions compliant until 2026, they were not going to be able to sell it forever, and I don't think they had any more realistic bandaids available for that engine. Even if they did, EPA 17mpg combined in a midsize SUV is class lowest.

There's stuff to like about the new engines, even if you're not going to buy one. Such as torque higher than the old 5.7L V8, while getting nearly twice the MPG that V8 did. The turbo torque at altitude is also nice. The 1GR becomes a joke north of 7,000ft, and an absolute clown show past 10,000, IMO.

 

[Quentin]

Quentin,

A little off topic from this thread, but...I've been a 4Runner owner since 2005. I've owned a 2005 SR5, and 2010 and 2013 Limiteds. I love 4Runners and Toyota trucks in general.

I know this is sacrilege here, but in 2020 I traded in my '13 4R Limited for a new 2020 Honda Passport Elite. For those who don't know, the passport is marketed as a 2-row off-road oriented mid-size SUV. Basically, it's a Pilot for people who don't want to be seen driving a pilot. I honestly love my passport. It's SUPER quiet. I get 25-27 mpg on the highway with the stock tires and 3.5L v6. I can cram a ridiculous amount of mountain bikes and gear in that thing and road trip all summer. It's an amazing road trip vehicle.

There's a completely new passport coming out next year that I'm excited about. It's going to keep the traditional 3.5L v6 and pick up some new off road goodies. No, it's not body-on-frame. It's a crossover and not a real truck. But if you're looking for something a little more tame, road friendly, and family friendly, the passport fills that niche pretty nicely.

Worse than getting a crossover, I'm getting an electric crossover. Long story short, my employer subsidizes my vehicles and they have a screaming deal on electric cars at the moment. Way lower operating costs and way cheaper than what I was paying for my 4Runner. Seems like the ideal time to try it out. The lease is only for 2 years, so if it stinks, it is only for 2 years and I'll get something else. We have a hybrid crossover and a GR Corolla in the stable already, so I'm not worried about range anxiety because I'll take one of those 2 vehicles if I'm driving more than 100 miles away. After camping in the 4Runner again this past weekend, I am worried about losing the OK-at-everythingness of the 4Runner.

 

[KimchiJae]

It's going to be interesting to see how the 2.4 Turbos, new transmissions, and Hybrids work out in the new vehicles, 4-Runner and Land Cruiser. I say this because the new Tacoma's are having several problems with the new vehicles and they are not selling, cost is also a big factor as well as taking the V6 and 5-spd trans out of vehicles that have proven themselves over the past 15-20 years. Remember these two vehicles sold because of the reliability and high mileage that these vehicles were known for, now Toyota has thrown monkey a wrench into their new models and so far there have been problems with these new vehicles. For those of you who watch "The Car Care Nut" on YouTube he does go into the new Turbo engines longevity and repair cost is going to much higher than the old V6 engines. For wife and me (2022 Lexus RX 350 and 2024 Toyota 4-Runner) we are set for the future, so Turbos and 4-cylinder engine are out for the time being, but when the time comes, I hope this engine thing has worked itself out. :clock: is ticking.

This is likely area dependent. Colorado is already filled with 4th gen Tacomas. Anecdotally, i've seen more 4th gen Tacomas than any of the competitors combined which is surprising given the 4th gen barely went on sale.

Went skiing at Copper mountain last week and saw 4 of the new Tacomas in just one of the lots.

 

[KimchiJae]

The 2.4's do have considerable efficiency gains over their older 3.5L and 4.0L V6's, doubly so when hybridized. They also meet modern emissions standards, which is something Toyota has to consider. The 1GR 4.0L was emissions compliant until 2026, they were not going to be able to sell it forever, and I don't think they had any more realistic bandaids available for that engine. Even if they did, EPA 17mpg combined in a midsize SUV is class lowest.

There's stuff to like about the new engines, even if you're not going to buy one. Such as torque higher than the old 5.7L V8, while getting nearly twice the MPG that V8 did. The turbo torque at altitude is also nice. The 1GR becomes a joke north of 7,000ft, and an absolute clown show past 10,000, IMO.

I agree with you. Also, in some ways the inline4 turbo is actually a simpler design than past V8s.

Half the heads, half the cams, half the gaskets, half the manifolds. Fewer valves, simpler timing chain, etc etc.

My main wish is that Toyota went with a straight six for their larger vehicles. A V6TT retains all the bad parts of the V style engine and adds complexity. Inline engines are simple by design.

 

[thatoneguy]

I agree with you. Also, in some ways the inline4 turbo is actually a simpler design than past V8s.

Half the heads, half the cams, half the gaskets, half the manifolds. Fewer valves, simpler timing chain, etc etc.

My main wish is that Toyota went with a straight six for their larger vehicles. A V6TT retains all the bad parts of the V style engine and adds complexity. Inline engines are simple by design.

Yes, that would've been nice. Since the twin turbo V6 is only going in longitudinal RWD truck applications, there's really no reason it couldn't have been a straight six. Variants of the turbo four in the smaller trucks also go into transverse-mounted front wheel drive applications in plenty of lighter duty vehicles.

Very good point about the simplicity argument. Four-cam V6's are not the simplest thing ever, especially when turbocharged on top, especially when hybridized on top.

I'm hip, I'm modern, I'm a fan of the newer technologies..... except that 10-speed transmissions make me hesitate. The 8-speed in the Tacoma/4Runner give me comparatively no anxiety, but I seriously don't want to own a 10-speed like the Tundra/Sequoia/GX get.

The hybrid torque would be awesome offroad, but I don't feel I drive enough miles to care much about having the hybrid system. My wishlist item would be a Land Cruiser 250 offered without the hybrid, just turbo four, but I don't expect that to happen