Thanks Tery, I hadn't seen anything mentioned about it like that either.. I think I might have a worn rear carrier bushing or something to that effect somewhere. At 60k miles, even though they're built like tanks, I wouldn't be suprised if one of those little rubber bushings might be torn or worn. That rear carrier arm is super long, which no doubt puts some serious strain on those bushings....
Drive shaft noise or U joint noise (LEXUS 4/06 TSB page 18) aka Driveshaft thump/bump
- Thread starter rorad
- Start date
nc211 said:
I've somewhat wondered how long the bushings will hold up on the 4th gens... I do quite a bit of towing and do drive fairly 'spiritedly'... I definitely use 100% of the torque that the 4.7L V8 makes. So far with almost 98k miles, it's holding up well, but we'll see how it does when it gets closer to 200k...
Ricky
Same tranny issue
I bought an '05 V8 4x4 SR5 with 33k this past September. It is Toyota Certified on the drivetrain to 100k, so I have a while before needing to force the issue on repair.
Even without reading this thread, I took it in last week to have the exact issue assessed as described in this thread. I'm pretty sure the clunk after a stop wasn't apparent when I first had the car. Now 7k later, it is starting to make routine appearances. I'm pretty sensitive to drivetrain misgivings since my last car's tranny put me in this one.
The service advisor did not allude to this being a common repair item and told me 3 seperate techs looked at and drove the car on and off over the course of a day and could not concretely identify anything but had their"suspicions" (e.g. the slip yolk). They claim to not have done anything and want me to come back if I hear it again to drive with the tech. However, they must have lubed the yolk since it has not clunked in the week since.
BUT I do feel that the transmission takes a bit of time to re-engage from a roll which causes the engine to rev and the car to jerk as it grabs the gear. Is that slip or normal?
I bought an '05 V8 4x4 SR5 with 33k this past September. It is Toyota Certified on the drivetrain to 100k, so I have a while before needing to force the issue on repair.
Even without reading this thread, I took it in last week to have the exact issue assessed as described in this thread. I'm pretty sure the clunk after a stop wasn't apparent when I first had the car. Now 7k later, it is starting to make routine appearances. I'm pretty sensitive to drivetrain misgivings since my last car's tranny put me in this one.
The service advisor did not allude to this being a common repair item and told me 3 seperate techs looked at and drove the car on and off over the course of a day and could not concretely identify anything but had their"suspicions" (e.g. the slip yolk). They claim to not have done anything and want me to come back if I hear it again to drive with the tech. However, they must have lubed the yolk since it has not clunked in the week since.
BUT I do feel that the transmission takes a bit of time to re-engage from a roll which causes the engine to rev and the car to jerk as it grabs the gear. Is that slip or normal?
That is perfectly normal. I believe the transmission goes back to 1st gear when you're under 5-10mph... Then as your start to accelerate, the RPMs of the engine have to catch up to the speed the vehicle is already rolling at (5-10mph). If you're very gentle on the throttle, it will seem to "free-spin" for a half second, then the transmission will shift to 2nd gear....
Ricky
Ricky
blueleezard
New member
Right -- the slight "slip" you're mentioning seems normal [a computer guy would say it's not a bug, it's a "design feature", right?] :
: -- and your description sounds completely logical -- but I don't think the "clunk" is a tolerable "design feature" at all. I'd say it's more than annoying and I can't see how repeatedly having "torque clunk" with relatively loose mechanical parts hitting each other over and over somewhere in the drive train, even if periodically lubricated, would not be a route to possible future problems. The used 2003 T4R V8 Sport I purchased at end Nov 2007 has "the clunk". The 2003 T4R V8 Sport we purchased new in 2003 [now gone] also had "the clunk" [but we never addressed it back then]. So, I've taken our current Sport back to the Toyota store where I bought it, had service inspect the drive train, and yesterday in the early morning went out for a "spin" [literally] in the fresh snow in the big parking lot up the road with their mech/tech guy. We'd come to a gentle stop, brakes holding, then released, and "feather touch" acceleration -- sure enough: "clunk". The mech/tech guy heard and felt and agreed that the drive train had "the clunk". From the dealership I have learned that Toytota has a replacement driveshaft specifically to resolve this problem [presumably eliminating the opportunity for "torque clunk"]; so, upon return, they ordered it immediately. When I am provided with the part number etc., I'll post to the list. So, they'll call me next week when the part is delivered, and the rig will go in for the replacement. Following that, I'll post to the list about how that goes and what the "clunk - no clunk" outcomes turn out to be.
:cheers: Cheers to the list,
Blueleezard
PS -- lest list members think I'm being fleeced for the $900 part plus labour [so the total bill we be, what, $1500?], everything is under warranty -- no personal cost incurred here whatsoever.
: -- and your description sounds completely logical -- but I don't think the "clunk" is a tolerable "design feature" at all. I'd say it's more than annoying and I can't see how repeatedly having "torque clunk" with relatively loose mechanical parts hitting each other over and over somewhere in the drive train, even if periodically lubricated, would not be a route to possible future problems. The used 2003 T4R V8 Sport I purchased at end Nov 2007 has "the clunk". The 2003 T4R V8 Sport we purchased new in 2003 [now gone] also had "the clunk" [but we never addressed it back then]. So, I've taken our current Sport back to the Toyota store where I bought it, had service inspect the drive train, and yesterday in the early morning went out for a "spin" [literally] in the fresh snow in the big parking lot up the road with their mech/tech guy. We'd come to a gentle stop, brakes holding, then released, and "feather touch" acceleration -- sure enough: "clunk". The mech/tech guy heard and felt and agreed that the drive train had "the clunk". From the dealership I have learned that Toytota has a replacement driveshaft specifically to resolve this problem [presumably eliminating the opportunity for "torque clunk"]; so, upon return, they ordered it immediately. When I am provided with the part number etc., I'll post to the list. So, they'll call me next week when the part is delivered, and the rig will go in for the replacement. Following that, I'll post to the list about how that goes and what the "clunk - no clunk" outcomes turn out to be.:cheers: Cheers to the list,
Blueleezard
PS -- lest list members think I'm being fleeced for the $900 part plus labour [so the total bill we be, what, $1500?], everything is under warranty -- no personal cost incurred here whatsoever.
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TeryT
New member
This is good - other dealers acknowledging that there's a problem.blueleezard said:
I posted my replacement driveshaft's number awhile back, or perhaps it was on another thread. Let's see if they match.
I was a little leary at first, as they didn't replace the rear control arms (like with the Lexus). But still no clunk on the replacement shaft, and I've almost forgotten about it!
blueleezard
New member
What's impressed me the most so far about the dealership with which I'm now interacting is that all individuals with whom I've dealt [ranging from sales, to business mgmt, to front desk in service, to the tech/mech service people themselves] are uniformly customer satisfaction oriented and are explicit about that, not just in terms of words, but consistent action. I've been around the block as much as the next guy, and my built-in crap detector has worked pretty well over the years; when I see that personal initiative to solve problems is rewarded and resources [especially time] are made available to support that initiative, I think that's great. Now, just like everyone else, in the past I've had bad experiences with certain individuals who have occupied service and customer relations roles in a wide variety of dealerships, and none of us on this list [or anywhere else!] wants bad treatment, bad service, or bad deals. But from what I can see [with my recent experience in particular], I think there is a fundamental shift in philosophy underway [at least with Toyota] having to do with building and maintaining longer-term positive relationships, rather than "sales and service focused on the next quarter" [but, at the same time, we have to recognize that business is business and there is only so much flexibility built into the system]. Historically, a lot of our positive "world view" about Toyota is built on high product quality and dependability, of course. The competition has known this for a while and has tried to follow a similar path [and sadly, with the new Tundra, for example, we have evidence of a Toyota product that is not quite as high-quality as in the past (no doubt for a large number of reasons) ... and that will erode efforts that have been made so far; very unfortunate!]. Anyway, my point is that, as customers, we have to work hard on building that long-term relationship, too. It's a partnership. I would never suggest that means giving anything up, like basic principles or the notion of a good deal. So, if I get consistent evidence that a dealership will respond positively, is rational and straightforward, and that individuals working there [clearly as members of a team] provide accurate information and good service, do their best, and are willing to accept the fact that they can have well-informed and intelligent customers who actually want to *help* that relationship [and are willing to learn], that's good. Obviously, if the response is adversarial and negative, I walk away [and would recommend to anyone that they do the same]. So, yes, I'm very glad that the dealership with which I am now interacting has responded so rationally and positively. Kudos to them. I'll keep bringing business their way and encourage others to do the same. My response is to be supportive of them, too, until I get evidence that I should do otherwise. But, perhaps most importantly, I am not anticipating I'll have to do that -- in other words, I'm not "waiting for a mistake", if you know what I mean. My attitude to them, and to myself, is: let's just get on with the business at hand and do the best we can. BTW, as a disclaimer, I don't work for Toyota or have any involvement in any part of the automotive industry. I'm an academic in the university system [managing world-class research], and I wouldn't expect any less of the dealership I interact with than my colleagues and fellow researchers / administrators. And they should expect the same.
Again, cheers to the list!
Blueleezard :cheers:
Again, cheers to the list!
Blueleezard :cheers:
blueleezard
New member
Interesting ... if this turns out to be like one of those tragicomedies where the dentist goes in an pulls the wrong tooth [not the one that caused the tooth-ache], or if I held the parts diagram upside-down when it should have been right-side up, I'll let everyone know. I won't eat my hat, but I'll acknowledge my mistake. What I understood at the service counter was that we were talking about the front drive shaft being the culprit. If the problem isn't solved by replacing the front and the "clunk" persists, well, guess what: we'll address the rear one next. If the offending member *is*in fact the rear, I'll be very interested to hear from the service folks how they thought replacing the front would make any difference. At that point I will definitely ask for copies of the documents they're working from. And if I was completely mistaken in understanding what was said, well, so be it. To be very frank about it, I won't be terribly distressed about the whole thing just so long as, given the positive attitude I've experienced so far [which I will continue to strongly reinforce] the problem is solved, front or back -- or both, as the case may be.
Best wishes,
Blueleezard :bigok:
Best wishes,
Blueleezard :bigok:
Great news BlueLeezard, can't wait to get that part number and hear your outcome of the new drive shaft. Toyota gave me the shaft, only not the one I was hoping for. They basically told me that the problem of me not happy with the clunk, is like me not being happy with where the clock is on the dash board. They said they have no fix for it, nor do the plan on fixing it, and I was basically out of luck... so when you do get that part number, please do post so I can go back to the dealership and see if they'll order one for mine as well.
I have a 2007 V8 4x4 Limited, it was almost 40K, the thing shouldn't be clunking around like it does.
does anyone know if they ALL do it, or just us lucky ones? My friend has a V8 2 wheel drive, and his doesn't do it at all.
I have a 2007 V8 4x4 Limited, it was almost 40K, the thing shouldn't be clunking around like it does.
does anyone know if they ALL do it, or just us lucky ones? My friend has a V8 2 wheel drive, and his doesn't do it at all.
I believe that it is only the four wheel drive T4R's that have the clunk problem. If I am wrong then I'm sure I will be corrected in short order. The folks on this site should be aware that I have just started to make contact with a New York attorney who specializes in lemon law. He also does federal work so, if we approve of each other, I will talk to him about making this a class action law suit. I'll keep everyone posted.....:soapbox:
blueleezard
New member
Well, me hearties, I just mosied on out to the garage to check the rig -- and, shiver me timbers, a stock Toyota automatic transmission is bolted in there, right where you'd think it ought to be, with 5 speeds forward, one reverse, plus a spiffy low range, to boot -- and from what I can tell, it hasn't been installed back to front, either [you know, just for us Canucks!]. You can be damned sure I'll let you know what the outcomes are from this experience -- I wouldn't miss your responses for the world! If it turns out that the part being ordered really does solve the problem, or if it turns out to be a crock, I am more than happy to share what I end up learning with all fellow T4Rers.
Avast -- we're off to the poop deck,
Best wishes,
Blueleezard
Avast -- we're off to the poop deck,
Best wishes,
Blueleezard
TeryT
New member
Part # for my replacement shaft
Here's the part number I originally posted back in May 07 for the replacement drive shaft: 3/110-6A480. It would be interesting to see if this is a different number from the one that came with the truck.
The official reason as written up on the service order was, " . . .due to excessive drive line clunk from worn splines on drive shaft." They hinted this might be due to the heavy towing I do.
Unofficially I was told this has been an issue for some time on most Toyota trucks (I have a good relationship with the service manager there). But they probably had to be careful to not acknowledge that in writing, and so they could get reimbursed for the $554 part under my Toyota Platinum extended warranty.
All I know is eight months and 10k+ miles (plus one light lubing with Mobile 1 synthetic grease) and no more clunkie-monkey!:biggrin2:
Here's the part number I originally posted back in May 07 for the replacement drive shaft: 3/110-6A480. It would be interesting to see if this is a different number from the one that came with the truck.
The official reason as written up on the service order was, " . . .due to excessive drive line clunk from worn splines on drive shaft." They hinted this might be due to the heavy towing I do.
Unofficially I was told this has been an issue for some time on most Toyota trucks (I have a good relationship with the service manager there). But they probably had to be careful to not acknowledge that in writing, and so they could get reimbursed for the $554 part under my Toyota Platinum extended warranty.
All I know is eight months and 10k+ miles (plus one light lubing with Mobile 1 synthetic grease) and no more clunkie-monkey!:biggrin2:
blueleezard
New member
Great, thanks for the part number. We'll see if it matches with what is happening in my case -- most likely, it does [we'll see if the "front-to-back" drive shaft question has anything to do with that!]. As I said, I'll report my findings to everybody on the list, too. It struck me that if there is a real part number "solution" that would apply to everyone who has experienced the "clunk" problem [plus the synthetic lube treatment to eliminate, and ostensibly solve, the perceived problem] -- then, rather than a class action suit -- [which I think, in this case, is along the lines of overkill -- like using a baseball bat to kill a mosquito, and maybe as a result causing a lot of complications that are entirely un-necessary (except for lawyers who want to keep their cash flow flowing!)], it might make a whole lot more sense for individual owners to take the findings we're about to organize, and head down to their local dealerships and say, "Look, folks, here's a simple solution ... let's get on with it!". If you're under warranty, that should be no problem at all. If you're not under warranty, at least a reliable technical solution can be found. To get a lot of people to sign up for going for the jugular on this particular issue sounds downright vindictive and perhaps not very smart. Individual owners, folks just like you and me, are perfectly capable of doing what's necessary -- like taking ye olde pry bar to the posterior of dealerships that don't want to serve customers appropriately when there is a clear solution at hand. In this case, I would recommend coordinated individual action before class action.
Here's to a great Sunday afternoon for everyone,
Cheers / Blueleezard :cheers:
Here's to a great Sunday afternoon for everyone,
Cheers / Blueleezard :cheers:
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00328
Senior Member
Toyota has proven time after time that they don't want to do anything about this by saying it's 'normal' or 'there's nothing we can do', except in very very few instances where some people got very lucky.
Hate to talk about 'class action' but it's about the only way to get Toyotas attention and let them know people are serious.
Hate to talk about 'class action' but it's about the only way to get Toyotas attention and let them know people are serious.
morphius909
New member
Yes, let me know too please.
I live in Edmonton and have noticed the clunk on our 07 SE.
Thanks!
I live in Edmonton and have noticed the clunk on our 07 SE.
Thanks!
blueleezard
New member
Reply to 00328 [and everybody else]: I know what you mean. But let's talk technologies. I had a pacemaker installed just his past Fall and thought that baby was the best thing since sliced bread, what with being titanium and all. But wouldn't you know it, one of the leads into the heart [one of the wires] turns out to be mechanically defective after a certain manufacture date on account of cumulative stress fractures [bummer, as they say -- and I won't speculate about where on this planet that lead was built!]. Research says that the damned thing is statistically sure to fail in the next 30 months, give or take, timed from when they stuck it in my chest, and so some advance planning and special care and attention has to take place -- and so, not only is there a lot of impedance monitoring going on for most patients in my boat [primarily by remote sensing], but there's a class action underway right now on this, too. My understanding from what I've been told is that the woman who started the class action got shocked [like getting kicked in the chest by a horse with both rear horseshoes, says my cardiologist] 18 times before they got her to the hospital to shut the damned thing off [that's eighteen, count 'em, eighteen]. She didn't die as a result, but now -- even if she didn't croak -- that's pretty GD important, no way you'd ever want that for you or your loved ones, and no doubt you'd agree it's a pretty stressful prospect for the future [especially when you put your faith and trust into the medical profession and some high falutin' medical device manufacturer, like almost all of us do for things that get really serious] -- and, put real plain, there is no way in Hell anybody ought to suffer that way. Worse than being tasered by your local highway patrol or airport security when all you were doing was tying your shoes, with an express delivery straight to the heart. That sort of thing just should not, repeat, should not happen. But given today's rush to get products out the door with questionable quality control, and a whole lot of other reasons, it does. Now, let's look at the difference. With regard to the "clunk" in the T4R drive line, it's obviously not a life-threatening thing [unless somebody finds themselves in a pretty weird circumstance!]. So, the way I figure, if the manufacturer of a pacemaker lead is being bull-headed and downright stupid about things, that's one thing -- class action? Get 'em, boyz!! Use both barrels! No way I want to die or see anyone else suffer because some futz didn't do his job right somewhere. But if you and me as T4R owners have a "clunk" somewhere in the drive train, if it can be easily detected and agreed upon by owners and mechanics alike, and if a bunch of us say something like, "Oh, look here, here's a replacement part number that is already known, and here are the steps that need to be taken to get the GD thing fixed," that's different. It is obviously not life or death, you guys. Seems to me common sense really ought to prevail before class action, and if somebody isn't being sensible, well, you don't need a lawyer to speak for you. You and me can do that ourselves, unless things get *really* ugly, and even then, unless people have died in the situation, class action will likely get hung up by hungry lawyers for a lot longer than you can reasonably wait for resolution. Don't know about you, but the way I look at it, life is too short and I don't really want to make it any shorter. So, if a Toyota dealer gives you grief and tells you to go pis* up a rope when you not only have the "clunk" problem, but you also have accurate information about a fix to that problem [which I hope we'll have real soon here on this list], I don't think it's "class action" time. First, go up the ladder, don't take "no" for an answer, get to the guy who owns the store if you have to, make him look you straight in the eye, but don't jump to litigation at the first hint of a problem, even if the problem is shared and it's obvious a lot of others are wondering just what the Hell to do and are tired of waiting. Some people out there ["stealerships" I've heard them called] might want to ignore a problem or even trample on consumer rights, but you and me don't ever have to put up with any horseshit nor do we have to buy into a system that'll be even more burdensome and time consuming than the original problem. I honestly haven't run into too many folks yet on the "customer service" side yet who really want to go to the wall on something as insignificant as a "clunk" in the drive line, even if it's $800 - $1000 a pop. Most I've dealt with see reason pretty quick. Now, in pacemaker territory, that's a different story ...
Cheers to the list, :cheers:
Blueleezard
Cheers to the list, :cheers:
Blueleezard
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