Drive shaft noise or U joint noise (LEXUS 4/06 TSB page 18) aka Driveshaft thump/bump

[jtateny]

Hey, Blueleezard,

I think that you may be missing the point. No one is going to argue with you that this is not a "life or death" issue. However, some of us spent about $45,000 on vehicles made by an allegedly reputable manufacturer. Now most of those vehicles did not have the "thump" when we first test drove it and many of us purchased the vehicle for the first time and were not fortunate enought to be prior members of this forum. It is annoying enough that Toyota has knowingly continued to manufacture the same problem through the 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007 and 2008 model years KNOWING THAT THIS PROBLEM EXISTED. As if that weren't bad enough, many of us are outraged that the very same problem exists on the Lexus LX470, AN IDENTICAL VEHICLE IN REGARD TO ENGINE, DRIVETRAIN AND CHASSIS! However, Toyota sees fit to acknowledge that problem, issue an appropriate service bulletin, and permanently fix that problem. The disparity in treatment is one of the purposes of a class action. If you have been following this thread for awhile there are many people who have followed this all the way to Toyota HQ without getting a satisfactory result. Okay, so it may not be a "life and death" issue but don't we all deserve better treatment for the $35-45,000 investment we have made?

 

[blueleezard]

Hey jtateny,

That's an interesting assertion that I may have missed the point. So, let's list salient points so nobody misses them. First, life-death manufacturer or contractor issues in our Western society usually get to class action PDQ, in relative terms

 

[jtateny]

Hey Blueleezard,

After reading your most recent post I will share some thoughts with you. First, the initial post you made was somewhat less clear than I believe you meant it to be. Maybe it's just me, but the tone seemed to be that we were blowing the issue out of proportion and maybe even should be ashamed of ourselves for worrying about something so inconsequential as a clunk in the driveshaft. However, after reading your second post in this regard it appears that you do, indeed, "get the point" and have expressed same quite well. Please accept my apologies for any offense you might have taken.

Now, why on earth did you ever sell that 1993 Celica All Trac? That should have been lovingly kept forever, or stuffed and put in a museum or, at the very least, buried in your backyard. What a cool car that must have been, especially for those of us in the snowier climates! There were even a few of those that were made with a very early version of automatic climate control.

 

[michael90630]

I have been following the posts on this thread for the last 8-9 months. Tomorrow I will take my truck to another dealer (Toyota of Irvine) and see what happens.

I have already gone done the following:

1) Gone to Toyota of Tustin and explained the whole situation. They kept the car for a day, supposedly test drove it and found no issue.
2) I took it back agin and this time they lubed it.
3) In the meantime I called "Toyota Customer Experience Center" (Tel: 1-800-331-4331) and basically did not get any help. A case number has been assigned to my complaint.
4) After the lube-job, the clunk was not noticeable for approx. maybe 2-3 months.
5) After that the clunk gradually started to come back and currently it is back in full-force.

Today I called Toyota of Irvine, CA and talked to a Service Manager and went thru the entire situation and explanation. He is trying to be cooperative and agreed to help as much as he can.

He took the Lexus TSB # (DL001-06)and found it and also took my truck's VIN. I requested for an appointment and to have a technician take a test drive with me to validate my complaint. He has not promised anything but made an appointment for to me take the truck tomorrow at 8:00 AM. I asked him to cross-check my vehicle's Propeller Shaft Assembly P/N with the offending Propeller Shaft Assembly listed in Lexus GX470 TSB DL001-06 (most probably superceded by a newer DL001-07 ??). The old or bad Propeller Shaft Assembly called out in the Lexus TSB is: 3711-6A480.

He said he can only follow-up with this issue next week during regular business hours and I will need to take my truck back. I kind of insisted on having a test-drive to be conducted by technician to demostrate the problem. I told him I can bring the truck back next Friday after they follow-up with Toyota during the week and after tomorrow's test-drive.

Couple of hours after my call, he called me back and said my truck's Propeller Shaft Assembly P/N is: 37110-6A440 vs. Lexus' 37110-6A480 (old or defective one). He claims the parts are different which I dis-agree. In Engineering drawings, the base number is usually the part number - in this case 37110 and the dash is just a variation of this part. In fact the last 5 digits are also very close -6A440 in mine vs. -6A480 in the Lexus TSB. The difference could just me a "trim & finish" variation or just a minor length or some minor dimension difference. Therefore, my point is IF the Lexus P/N needed to be replaced with a a new one i.e 37110-09160, the same type of replacement in our vehicle should resolve the issue.

So I will be there tomorrow AM. If anyone in this forum did have a replacement done and the problem is gone than providing the Toyota Part Number would be greatly beneficial.

Thanks

 

[blueleezard]

Hey jtateny [et al],

Aside from that very peculiar light blue leather interior that caused me to wonder about extinction of rare species, the Celica AllTrac was a gem [and it did have climate control and a fantastic stereo with a failing CD player]. I admit to missing it quite a bit, as it was a total blast to drive in almost any condition except Winter. About selling: sad but true -- sometimes the exigencies of life dictate leaving gems behind [no fine detail on that story provided here]. I will never forget *almost* hitting a crazily-prancing deer very early in the morning in the AllTrac while heading South from Fort St. John to Prince George, BC, at a very good clip. The only thing that prevented a collision [aside from the fact that I happened to be awake at the time and my reflexes were still OK] was the superb handling of that wonderful machine plus the fact that there was no oncoming traffic [and the great Summer tires of course]. But I was not too happy with it in Winter -- what I mean by that is: I don't think it's a good idea to drive such a high-spirited machine when the road surface is really slick even if you are running all-seasons [and back then I wasn't about to get a set of heavily-studded somethingorothers along the lines of ice-racing motocross tires]. Mind you, I didn't take it out of the garage when there was a whole lot of snow etc., and some of my moaning and wailing might be due to the tires that really weren't up to the tasks of Winter, but given its awesome power I really and truly think the AllTrac was much, much happier in the dry or in the wet, not the snow and ice. And that's perfectly OK. An AWD rocket sled on glare ice goes really fast in a very straight line, but doesn't steer all that well when necessary traction is a question mark. Yes, you're right, the AllTrac would have been an investment, not to mention a source of long-term pleasure -- but that's just not the way life turned out. C'est la vie. I have really good memories and no regrets. Too bad -- a piece of history is gone.

BTW regarding the T4R, I learned today that the new drive shaft, ordered to ostensibly cure the "clunk", will be here on Jan 30th. Shipping from Vancouver appears to have turned into shipping from Japan, which consumes a bit of time. I'm happy as long as it turns out to be the right drive shaft, and it gets here reasonably soon. As promised, when all is said and done, I'll provide a report.

Have a good Friday evening,

Blueleezard

 

[TeryT]

I have been following the posts on this thread for the last 8-9 months. Tomorrow I will take my truck to another dealer (Toyota of Irvine) and see what happens.

I have already gone done the following:

1) Gone to Toyota of Tustin and explained the whole situation. They kept the car for a day, supposedly test drove it and found no issue.
2) I took it back agin and this time they lubed it.
3) In the meantime I called "Toyota Customer Experience Center" (Tel: 1-800-331-4331) and basically did not get any help. A case number has been assigned to my complaint.
4) After the lube-job, the clunk was not noticeable for approx. maybe 2-3 months.
5) After that the clunk gradually started to come back and currently it is back in full-force.

Today I called Toyota of Irvine, CA and talked to a Service Manager and went thru the entire situation and explanation. He is trying to be cooperative and agreed to help as much as he can.

He took the Lexus TSB # (DL001-06)and found it and also took my truck's VIN. I requested for an appointment and to have a technician take a test drive with me to validate my complaint. He has not promised anything but made an appointment for to me take the truck tomorrow at 8:00 AM. I asked him to cross-check my vehicle's Propeller Shaft Assembly P/N with the offending Propeller Shaft Assembly listed in Lexus GX470 TSB DL001-06 (most probably superceded by a newer DL001-07 ??). The old or bad Propeller Shaft Assembly called out in the Lexus TSB is: 3711-6A480.

He said he can only follow-up with this issue next week during regular business hours and I will need to take my truck back. I kind of insisted on having a test-drive to be conducted by technician to demostrate the problem. I told him I can bring the truck back next Friday after they follow-up with Toyota during the week and after tomorrow's test-drive.

Couple of hours after my call, he called me back and said my truck's Propeller Shaft Assembly P/N is: 37110-6A440 vs. Lexus' 37110-6A480 (old or defective one). He claims the parts are different which I dis-agree. In Engineering drawings, the base number is usually the part number - in this case 37110 and the dash is just a variation of this part. In fact the last 5 digits are also very close -6A440 in mine vs. -6A480 in the Lexus TSB. The difference could just me a "trim & finish" variation or just a minor length or some minor dimension difference. Therefore, my point is IF the Lexus P/N needed to be replaced with a a new one i.e 37110-09160, the same type of replacement in our vehicle should resolve the issue.

So I will be there tomorrow AM. If anyone in this forum did have a replacement done and the problem is gone than providing the Toyota Part Number would be greatly beneficial.

Thanks

Here's the part number I originally posted back in May 07 (and posted again last week) for the replacement drive shaft my dealer installed (after consulting with Toyota area rep: 3/110-6A480. 10,000 miles & the clunk hasn't returned.

 

[jtateny]

If anyone in this forum did have a replacement done and the problem is gone than providing the Toyota Part Number would be greatly beneficial.

michael 90630,

If you look back in this forum you will find a great guy named TeryT who had his driveshaft replaced and so far the thump has not returned in almost a year and many thousands of miles. I don't know if he ever listed the part number in this thread but, if he didn't, why don't you PM him and get the number and post it for the rest of us. You info has been extremely helpful.

Thanks!

 

[jtateny]

BTW regarding the T4R, I learned today that the new drive shaft, ordered to ostensibly cure the "clunk", will be here on Jan 30th. Shipping from Vancouver appears to have turned into shipping from Japan, which consumes a bit of time. I'm happy as long as it turns out to be the right drive shaft, and it gets here reasonably soon. As promised, when all is said and done, I'll provide a report.

Well, I hope you at least got the money you deserve from that sale. I have done a bit of research and those cars are now selling for $10-15,000 and the prices are not going down. Please do let us know about the replacement part so we can have a follow up on TeryT's successful adventure to date. Your information has proven helpful and once again I am grateful for all the great folks on this forum that try to help each other. That even goes for Thai as well....:hello:

 

[michael90630]

TeryT

Thanks.

I did see that post but I was not sure if the P/N you listed "3/110-6A480" should have a "/" - forward slash between 3 and 1. Is this correct?

All the Toyota Part nos. I am seeing looks like there is no "/" in the base number. Instead of the "/" it is the number "7" i.e.

37110-6A480

Regardless - I will refer to this number also when I am at Toyota Irvine dealer.

 

[TeryT]

Re: TeryT

Thanks.

I did see that post but I was not sure if the P/N you listed "3/110-6A480" should have a "/" - forward slash between 3 and 1. Is this correct?

All the Toyota Part nos. I am seeing looks like there is no "/" in the base number. Instead of the "/" it is the number "7" i.e.

37110-6A480

Regardless - I will refer to this number also when I am at Toyota Irvine dealer.

The "/" may be a "7"! The printout copy I received is not very clear at all! Thanks!

UPDATE: I confirmed online, and on an earlier post that the correct number is 37110-6A480 !!

I also saw where people on this other forum (rock crawlers) had the drive shaft replaced with this number, with good effect.

 

[michael90630]

Following up from my earlier post, I did go to Toyota in Irvine (Power Toyota) and unfortunately it was pretty much the same experience as Tustin Toyota. The Service Manager and Master Technician were present but they pretty much said there is nothing they will be able to do unless Toyota issues a TSB. The Master Technician did take a test drive with me, and noticed the clunk but tried to explain it away as a normal behavior regardless of the fact that Lexus has issued a TSB for pretty much the same issue.

So basically in the end they refused do so anything other than re-lube the driveshaft. In the final work-order release the statement reads:

 

[TeryT]

Following up from my earlier post, I did go to Toyota in Irvine (Power Toyota) and unfortunately it was pretty much the same experience as Tustin Toyota. The Service Manager and Master Technician were present but they pretty much said there is nothing they will be able to do unless Toyota issues a TSB. The Master Technician did take a test drive with me, and noticed the clunk but tried to explain it away as a normal behavior regardless of the fact that Lexus has issued a TSB for pretty much the same issue.

So basically in the end they refused do so anything other than re-lube the driveshaft. In the final work-order release the statement reads:

 

[blueleezard]

Very useful information: thanks to all ... let's keep building what we can. FYI local temp here in S Alberta is rapdily heading down to painfully low levels ... it was "only" -9C this AM, -25C right now, expected to be down to -29C by tomorrow AM, lower up North [oldest son reported it was -40C in Northern BC this afternoon, not counting wind chill] ... here we have light blowing snow, dry, and fine, and light powdery ... high winds mainly from the N and NNE cutting through everything ... nasty and ugly. "It's to the bone!" It's block heater time, plus good quantities of -45C windshield washer antifreeze ... Winter is here ...

Cheers to the list,

Blueleezard

 

[RickyCRX]

Not to hijack the thread, but it's amazing to me that people willingly choose to live in places like that... It was a beautiful ~68 degrees today. I just got home a little before 9pm and took out the trash in my short sleeve shirt and no jacket...

Ricky

 

[michael90630]

TeryT

Thanks for the offer. I surely intend to pursue it further until they slam the door completely on me. Heck - if all else fails, as I am in Orange County, Southern CA and AZ is my neighboring state - not too far away, I am willing to drive down to your dealer in AZ if they are willing to help!

 

[blueleezard]

OK, the driveshaft is in at last, so the 4Runner will be in the shop all day Friday 08 Feb 2008 for installation while I'm at work. I'm looking fwd to testing it thereafter and being able to report to the list. The weather promises to be perfect for this: lots of new snow and plummeting temps. So there'll be plenty of opportunity to torque up the drive train, coming and going. Cheers to all / Blueleezard

 

[jtateny]

To TeryT and all the other great guys on this thread:

I took my T4R in once again for the clunk problem. The last time they lubed it and the problem returned immediately. This time I spoke to the service manager who is a great guy and very client/consumer oriented and really wants to please. I showed him some of the posts regarding the driveshaft TeryT had replaced, as well as the Lexus TSB. He read the latter throroughly and did not dismiss it out of hand. He then got on the phone with regional and began fighting to get my driveshaft replaced. I was there the entire time so I know how hard he fought.

Here is the most interesting thing. Toyota regional turned him down but not for the reason any of us would have suspected. It appears that Toyota is now starting to acknowledge the problem and was considering implementing at least the new driveshaft for T4R owners. They gave what they thought might be the solution to Lexus owners first, as a smaller number. Some others on this thread mentioned a while back that Lexus seemed to have started to back off their TSB and not be fixing further Lexus 470's. What my service manager was told is that was true and this is because Toyota has now determined that the full Lexus fix, including control arms, has not worked. The vast majority of the 470's who received the fix are returning with the clunk problem back in place after 10,000-20,000 miles!!!!

I tend to be a packrat and had printed and saved much of this thread to be able to refer to it. There was a post from someone a few months ago who got his dealer to remove the driveshaft and perform some maintenance on it. I discussed this with my service manager and he got right back on the phone with regional who authorized him to pull my driveshaft. In addition to cleaning it thoroughly, they advixed him to polish it and then reinstall it carefully and lube it correctly from the start. When they gave me my vehicle back I was happily surprised. There was no clunk at all (even after lubing I had still felt minor, although reduced, clunking) and it is smoother than it has ever been. I'll let folks know the long term success but, in the meantime, it was nice to get the additional info from Toyota and at least explore a more advanced fix than simple lubing that they are actually willing to do.

 

[TeryT]

Thanks for the update! Some acknowledgment eh? I guess we'll see where it all winds up.

 

[jtateny]

TeryT,

You have been one of the most helpful folks on this thread. You encouraged me (and probably a lot of others) to keep fighting. You have no idea how much I hope that you are one of the folks who got the new driveshaft that the "clunk" never, ever returns for you.....

 

[blueleezard]

All:

As promised, here is my report on the "driveshaft thing". This morning, Friday 08 02 2008, I brought my 2003 V8 Sport T4R to the local dealer where the replacement driveshaft had been received -- finally. It was installed and serviced today. The part number on the work order right here in front of me is:

37110-6A480

The cost of parts plus labour, all covered by warranty, was CDN$799.20. Ka-ching! No personal costs incurred.

I was contacted before noon that the work had been completed. But, the vehicle sat outside the dealership in -25C weather and strong winds until the end of the working day when I picked it up. Frigid times.

The drive home -- about 13+ miles, 19+km -- indicated the following:

absolutely no drive-line "clunk" in any circumstance could be perceived -- nothing was in evidence remotely similar to what was the case beforehand [the "clunk" at almost every stoplight or with almost any other stopping event]. Just not there anymore.

[ii] subjectively the drive-line is "tighter" -- no slop, no flopping, no nothing [these were absolutely minimal to begin with, with this unit, but the dreaded "clunk" appeared regularly at almost every stop light, etc.; now things feel "in new condition" (recall that we did have our first 2003 V8 Sport a few years ago, and it was definitely "tighter" than this one; however, we started at "mile zero", not "mile 65,000")]

[iii] today, I can also report that all other drive-line functions appeared to be perfect. An example: on the way home, I left a shopping area parking lot with a very slippery hill that caused other drivers [primarily of FWD sedans] to slip, slide, and spin out to the extent that they were out of control, sliding sideways and bouncing off curbs. The T4R behaved as though there was not one bit of ice or snow anywhere, so there was no perceptible slipping at any stage of the game [perfect, as all of us would no doubt expect]. But most importantly, with numerous stops and starts -- again, I can report that there was absolutely no sign of the "clunk" [to which I have become powerfully accustomed and attuned, even in the most delicate of circumstances, since we got this vehicle at the end of November -- and as of today, it is now "silent"!!].

So, at this early stage of "the change", I am quite happy. But obviously, from the tech point of view, much more diagnosis over time is required.

However, I must add that, from the dealership point of view, I am very happy to report strong support and even what I would call "collaboration". Getting the replacement part and having it installed was completely trouble-free. True, I had to wait a bit for the part to be delivered -- but, so what? We agreed at the dealership today to carefully monitor the technical situation. I feel that I have been completely supported in every way that I could want or reasonably expect.

I hope this report helps,

Best wishes to all,

Blueleezard