Drive shaft noise or U joint noise (LEXUS 4/06 TSB page 18) aka Driveshaft thump/bump

[jtateny]

Blueleezard,

Like I wished TeryT, I wish you the best of luck with your fix. You might have gotten in just before it began to trickle down from Toyota to the dealers that the driveshaft replacement appeared not to be a fix beyond 10,000-20,000 miles, even for the Lexus 470's who are now reporting the return of the "clunk".

For future potential battles for us all, could you please scan and post a copy of your work order for the rest of us? It would help to convince other Toyota dealers that they can indeed order that driveshaft to address the problem. Thanks...

 

[claydoctor]

Get this quote from the March 2008 issue of Automobile magazine concerning the new $75,000 Lexus LX570, "..the LX's truck suspension pitches and heaves constantly. Oh, and the driveline clunks when you are moving off from a stop."
So much for the Lexus solution. Apparently Toyota doesn't care if they ever fix it!

 

[jtateny]

The "clunk" may well be a design defect that Toyota is not able to cure. I think their expensive, and unsuccessful, attempts to cure the problem on the Lexus 470's shows that they did try. I have now put more mileage on my "fix" (having the driveshaft removed, cleaned, polished and carefully reinstalled) than I ever got on lubing. I spoke again to my service manager today and he was pleased. He also stated that if the "solution" needs to be repeated every 10-20,000 miles he is willing to do this. That was very good news for me and I hope it gives others hope as well.

 

[TeryT]

Does that mean he's going to do that procedure for the life of the vehicle, or just until the warranty runs out?

 

[jtateny]

Good question. I got the impression he meant for the life of the vehicle but I will clarify that with him the next time we meet. At the very least, if the offer goes only through the warranty period (which goes until 60K bumper to bumper on my vehicle) I will try to talk him into doing it, as required, and charging me only for a lube. I must say I am very pleased with the result of the work done (which may well be the equivalent of having given me a "new" drive shaft) and all of the impressions posted by blueleezard apply to the procedure I had done. If your "clunk" does, heaven forbid, return...at least my procedure is something you can fall back on.

 

[blueleezard]

Bawnjer everyone [that's French, eh?]: update -- things are just as good, tight and as silent as they were the day of the driveshaft replacement, about 900 miles ago. If I correctly understand others' comments, I guess that's about 19,000 miles to go before the problem re-appears!! Anyway, I was glad to read Jtatney's news ... sounds very good. I have planned ahead also, timed with anticipated oil / filter changes, to have "the offending member" lubed properly, no matter how long I own this unit. Geez, the English language can lend itself to serious ambiguity if not misinterpretation ... "offending member", "lubed", and those infamous "grease nipples" ... that all sounds a bit ... interesting. Hey -- don't take any of this the wrong way, guys!! I'm only talking about the T4R!!! Which thankfully now seems to be performing just the way it was intended [even if it has a drive-line design fault -- at least it appears to be correctable]. Cheers to all,

:cheers:

Blueleezard

 

[yabedude]

blueleezard:

Did you manage to get anyone to compare the parts to determine exactly what the difference is and why the clunk exists?

 

[jtateny]

The "clunk" exists because of a design defect where the pressure on the driveshaft "unloads" upon coming to a stop. Toyota tried to fix it on the Lexus 470 models by changing the driveshaft and the upper and lower control arms, ostensibly to change the load when it comes to a stop. Although it first appeared to fix the problem on the 470's (and angered the T4R owners who are the beneficiaries of the identical engine/driveshaft) I was told that the "clunk" is returning on the Lexus repaired vehicles after 10-20,000 miles. I do not know the engineering difference, if any, between the original driveshaft part and the Lexus part. In any event, except for very few individuals (such as TeryT and Blueleezard, Toyota dealers do not appear willing to replace the Toyo driveshaft with one with a Lexus part number. However, the "fix" that my dealer applied with Toyota's knowledge and blessing (removal of driveshaft followed by cleaning and polishing and careful reassembly and lubing) appears to have cured the problem for now, at least for me, and may provide hope for the other T4R/Lexus 470 owners who have had, or reencounter, problems.

 

[michael90630]

A Quick Update on my situation with Toyota

My first meeting with the District Service Parts Manager (DSPM) was postponed because of some mis-communication.

The Case Manage at Toyota Corporate - Customer Exp. Center at Torrance CA basically refused to do anything substantial. She said the DSPM will just inform me that as there is no TSB, the DSP will not be able to do anything. When I asked her to send me her response in writing and validate our telephone conversation - she refused to do so or even let me talk to her Manager. She said this is where it stops! So I said, how about I write a letter to your attention, and detail the exact conversation between us - i.e. your responses to my current issue and IF I DON'T get any answer back or you do not dispute my description and chronology of events, I will consider the content of that letter to be valid and accurate. Couple of hours later she called back and re-scheduled the appointment to tomorrow Wednesday, Feb. 20th at 10:30 AM PST. When she called back she said something like this - Oh! I will not try to speculate what the DSPM will tell you - so go to the appointment and have her test-drive your vehicle and we will go from ther....

Thanks.

 

[yabedude]

Re: A Quick Update on my situation with Toyota

My first meeting with the District Service Parts Manager (DSPM) was postponed because of some mis-communication.

The Case Manage at Toyota Corporate - Customer Exp. Center at Torrance CA basically refused to do anything substantial. She said the DSPM will just inform me that as there is no TSB, the DSP will not be able to do anything. When I asked her to send me her response in writing and validate our telephone conversation - she refused to do so or even let me talk to her Manager. She said this is where it stops! So I said, how about I write a letter to your attention, and detail the exact conversation between us - i.e. your responses to my current issue and IF I DON'T get any answer back or you do not dispute my description and chronology of events, I will consider the content of that letter to be valid and accurate. Couple of hours later she called back and re-scheduled the appointment to tomorrow Wednesday, Feb. 20th at 10:30 AM PST. When she called back she said something like this - Oh! I will not try to speculate what the DSPM will tell you - so go to the appointment and have her test-drive your vehicle and we will go from ther....

Thanks.

And we wonder why stealers have a crappy attitude. :FOS: Make 'em squirm.

 

[911h20]

Hi guys, my clunk thunk problem has been fixed, or at least I do not notice it now. The service manager at the dealership told me that he replaced my drive shaft with one that had been machined differently. He said there is no TSB for this fix but the new 4runners have the new drive shaft.

Do any of you guys know about it?

my '07 limited clunks.

 

[TeryT]

my '07 limited clunks.

And well it should! Do you really think that just by having a Limited with your leather seats, nav systems and all you get to go without a clunk?! :headslap: LOL Just kidding - welcome to the forum. Lots of great info on here, and a great "search" feature to help find what you'll need (in most cases). :cheers:

 

[911h20]

And well it should! Do you really think that just by having a Limited with your leather seats, nav systems and all you get to go without a clunk?! :headslap: LOL Just kidding - welcome to the forum. Lots of great info on here, and a great "search" feature to help find what you'll need (in most cases). :cheers:

what about the premium wheels, premium sound system .... it really doesn't clunk that much ... nor is it very trouble some. My friends lexus is much worse.

 

[05v8]

red crown?

Has RED CROWN GREASE been brought up yet?

When mine first did it, I suspected the drive shaft slip yoke. Chevys do the same thing. We fixed it by lubing the spline, where it plugs into the tranny. Grease is a temporary fix, but Red Crown is good stuff. It would either fix the problem altogether, or make it go away for 5000-10000 miles. That stuff is soo sticky and thick.
So far my dealer says " unable to duplicate cust. concern" So I may do it my self with Red Crown. But I dont know where to get it anymore.

 

[TechWrench]

Re: red crown?

Has RED CROWN GREASE been brought up yet?

When mine first did it, I suspected the drive shaft slip yoke. Chevys do the same thing. We fixed it by lubing the spline, where it plugs into the tranny. Grease is a temporary fix, but Red Crown is good stuff. It would either fix the problem altogether, or make it go away for 5000-10000 miles. That stuff is soo sticky and thick.
So far my dealer says " unable to duplicate cust. concern" So I may do it my self with Red Crown. But I dont know where to get it anymore.

I believe, this is the first time anyone with a 2wd has complained of the drive line 'clunk'. From everything I have read, only the 4wd vehicles had the problem.

 

[RickyCRX]

Re: Re: red crown?

I believe, this is the first time anyone with a 2wd has complained of the drive line 'clunk'. From everything I have read, only the 4wd vehicles had the problem.

Actually, there was a 2-3 month period of time when my 2WD 4Runner started doing it. It was annoying me, because I had no idea how to get rid of it since there are no grease fittings on the 2WD driveshaft. Eventually it went away. I'm honestly not sure what changed. I still drive it fairly hard, still do the same amoun of towing, etc....

 

[TechWrench]

Re: Re: Re: red crown?

Actually, there was a 2-3 month period of time when my 2WD 4Runner started doing it. It was annoying me, because I had no idea how to get rid of it since there are no grease fittings on the 2WD driveshaft. Eventually it went away. I'm honestly not sure what changed. I still drive it fairly hard, still do the same amoun of towing, etc....

The yoke connection to the output shaft of the 2wd transmission doesn't require a zerk fitting for lubrication, because the internal spline connection between the output shaft of the trans and the driveshaft yoke is lubricated by the transmission fluid. I don't know why Toyota chose not to provide zerk fittings on the u-joints, but they shouldn't have anything to do with the driveline clunk, as I understand it.

 

[jtateny]

Re: Re: Re: Re: red crown?

The yoke connection to the output shaft of the 2wd transmission doesn't require a zerk fitting for lubrication, because the internal spline connection between the output shaft of the trans and the driveshaft yoke is lubricated by the transmission fluid. I don't know why Toyota chose not to provide zerk fittings on the u-joints, but they shouldn't have anything to do with the driveline clunk, as I understand it.

Don't we all just love a technical explanation?? 10 points for TechWrench!!:rocker:

 

[michael90630]

OK - I have tried every avenue with the local Toyota dealers and the Case Manager at Toyota Corporate - Customer Experience Center at Torrance CA. They have basically informed me that they cannot offer any fix, repair/replacement or solution because they do not see the "clunking" as an issue.

So the only option the Case Manager offered me is to go to arbitration which is Toyota's Dispute Settlement Program via NCDS (National Center for Dispute Settlement).

They have mailed me the forms, brochure etc. The brochure states and I quote:

"You must use the Dispute Settlement Program prior to seeking remedies available to you through a court action pursuant to the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act (the "Act"). In addition, you must use the Dispute Settlement Program if you are required to do so prior to seeking remedies available under the "Lemon Law" of your state. ......."

So I am not sure what is the best way to go forward. These options are not very pleasant and can be very time consuming and costly. I am not a lawyer and have no idea what the ramifications can be if I proceed.

Has anyone gone down this path? Any advise will be appreciated.

Thanks

 

[michael90630]

A follow-up and history on my earlier post:
I had informed the Case Manager that I have been in touch with TeryT and he was more than willing to talk to her to validate that our vehicles are same, the issue is same and his solution (replacement of drive-shaft) provided by Toyota is working so far. She did not pay much attention to it and now trying to state that the "issue" is not same.

In the beginning the DSPM (District Service Parts Manager) and the Case Manager had tried to have the following positions:

1) There is no TSB so there is nothing wrong
2) The issue with Lexus GX470 is entirely different
3) My vehicle and TeryT's vehicle is not the same

and finally...

4) The issue between my clunking and the issue seen by TeryT is different so that solution does not apply to my vehicle.