Dual Battery Systems

[SenseiDad]

My Dual Battery Set up

Thanks to all for the great information. I wanted a NL Portable Power Pack but could not justify the costs so I built my own. I used a Blue Sea ML-ACR, bus and switched fuses, an Amazon panel and my own cables. I ran cables (2 Gauge) to the back of the 4Rrunner and Anderson connectors.

It took me a couple of weekends to run the 2 gauge and assemble, test and package the parts. Blue Sea support was great and now just waiting for my Odyssey Battery to show up.

 

[ScrantonT4R]

I'm installing a Painless Dual Battery kit in my '16, and the controller requires wiring into a connection that goes hot with the ignition switch. Any ideas on where in the engine compartment to hook up to?

 

[massoverland]

Didn't want to start a new thread.

Needed to see if someone, or more than one, can confirm that with this setup I won't burn my car and myself with it?

Thanks a bunch to all here for even getting me to this point.

Started on Shrockworks setup yesterday. Hope to get this done by the end of the month, hopefully.

 

[Bumbo]

[MENTION=166902]massoverland[/MENTION]

Looks fine to me... just curious as to why National Luna vs something from BlueSea

Nothing against NL, but I just think a DIY kit using BlueSea gear gives you more value.

 

[massoverland]

[MENTION=166902]massoverland[/MENTION]

Looks fine to me... just curious as to why National Luna vs something from BlueSea

Nothing against NL, but I just think a DIY kit using BlueSea gear gives you more value.

Thanks a bunch!

Most people I've followed have used National Luna (Andrew St. Pierre, Overland Expedition). I've learnt quite a bit of how it works through their channels and also communicating with Equipt. Although, instead of using an sPod like most, I've decided to go with using Blue Sea circuits.

Once I reach the point where I'm ready to move wires towards accessories, I plan on posting another diagram to verify from you guys if all looks good. That should have most Blue Sea accessories.

Thanks a bunch, again!

 

[Bumbo]

Thanks a bunch!

Most people I've followed have used National Luna (Andrew St. Pierre, Overland Expedition). I've learnt quite a bit of how it works through their channels and also communicating with Equipt. Although, instead of using an sPod like most, I've decided to go with using Blue Sea circuits.

Once I reach the point where I'm ready to move wires towards accessories, I plan on posting another diagram to verify from you guys if all looks good. That should have most Blue Sea accessories.

Thanks a bunch, again!

Just my opinion but I think BlueSea ACRs are some of the most elegant solutions out there for dual battery setups.

Most ACR circuits are so simple anyways that it all starts and ends with the ACR itself and the BlueSea ones are actually quite intelligent. They have many different options based on application needs. The voltage display on the NL is nice, you could easily recreate that. Personally, I just like looking at voltages as I understand how it relates to state of charge… Keeps the setup simple and clean.

Here is a write up I did between two of the smaller units. Personally I absolutely love the 7611 because I can force the starter to participate in feeding the fridge with a push of a button down to 12.25 volts. Plenty to start the truck up again.
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/engin...cr-automatic-charging-relays.html#post2642084

Comparing what BlueSea does for power distribution is a bit apples and oranges when looking at something like an sPOD or Switch Pro. You still have to consider the switching/relay portion as the BlueSea are more traditional distribution blocks with line level fuses. Bussman Cooper does an integrated relay / disto blocks as well… I like them very much.

I used BlueSea because I prefer to stay away from complexity for the easy of trouble shooting in the field, but the Bussman Cooper blocks with integral relay racks are right up there in my book, and if I knew about them before I built mine up, I would have taken that route instead.

Be sure to look at the BlueSea LVD as well… another fantastic must have IMO depends on what types of loads you intend on driving.

End of the day… no right answer, just different designs and criteria that generally drive decisions. Educating oneself is half the battle.

Good luck with the build, I had a blast doing mine.

 

[007Tacoma]

Just my opinion but I think BlueSea ACRs are some of the most elegant solutions out there for dual battery setups.

Most ACR circuits are so simple anyways that it all starts and ends with the ACR itself and the BlueSea ones are actually quite intelligent. They have many different options based on application needs. The voltage display on the NL is nice, you could easily recreate that. Personally, I just like looking at voltages as I understand how it relates to state of charge… Keeps the setup simple and clean.

Here is a wire up I did between two of the smaller units. Personally I absolutely love the 7611 because I can force the starter to participate in feeding the fridge with a push of a button down to 12.25 volts. Plenty to start the truck up again.
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/engin...cr-automatic-charging-relays.html#post2642084

Comparing what BlueSea does for power distribution is a bit apples and oranges when looking at something like an sPOD or Switch Pro. You still have to consider the switching/relay portion as the BlueSea are more traditional distribution blocks with line level fuses. Bussman Cooper does an integrated relay / disto blocks as well… I like them very much.

I used BlueSea because I prefer to stay away from complexity for the easy of trouble shooting in the field, but the Bussman Cooper blocks with integral relay racks are right up there in my book, and if I knew about them before I built mine up, I would have taken that route instead.

Be sure to look at the BlueSea LVD as well… another fantastic must have IMO depends on what types of loads you intend on driving.

End of the day… no right answer, just different designs and criteria that generally drive decisions. Educating oneself is half the battle.

Good luck with the build, I had a blast doing mine.

I love the information, and coming from the nautical world I already love the Blue Sea products (I have the 12 circuit fuse + negative block in my truck already).

I hope you don't mind me asking a few questions:

• Did you upgrade the alternator?
• What load are you typically using this for (besides the fridge)?
• ...and, of course, how much did this all cost you?

The more camping, wheeling, and exploring we do; the more I question if my brand new X2 Power (Northstar) 24F Battery is going to handle everything I throw at it. Also... getting stranded is not my idea of fun... well, sometimes, but I like having options.

 

[phillyd2]

Another vote for BlueSea. Its Bullet and more importantly Dummy Proof. Although I use PN 7622. As for loads besides a fridge: Winch, Lights – Lots of Lights, Compressor, Shower, Charging Ports….The damn thing works.

Even put one in my ATV

And the Pick Up Truck

[/url]

 

[4RunnerAquasport]

^^^^ This! I redid a 17' Aquasport years ago and used nothing but Blue Sea components so I knew going into my 4Runner build thats what I would use. Like [MENTION=6163]phillyd2[/MENTION] says: Bullet and dummy proof. I even used a 70 amp breaker (2nd pic arrow) of theirs to send power back via #6 cable to my cargo area and then distro every thing from there for the fridge and inverter (CAT/1000w inverter but it's junk tho. 600w at best). The Blue Sea brand is pricey but I don't scrimp on electrical.
P.S. FYI thats an ATCO marine battery tray from Walmart w a hold down kit from Advanced. $15 and it's holding up fine w 30k miles on the "House" battery.

 

[4RunnerAquasport]

I love the information, and coming from the nautical world I already love the Blue Sea products (I have the 12 circuit fuse + negative block in my truck already).

I hope you don't mind me asking a few questions:

• Did you upgrade the alternator?
• What load are you typically using this for (besides the fridge)?
• ...and, of course, how much did this all cost you?

The more camping, wheeling, and exploring we do; the more I question if my brand new X2 Power (Northstar) 24F Battery is going to handle everything I throw at it. Also... getting stranded is not my idea of fun... well, sometimes, but I like having options.

Those damn X2s are expensive but so far so good with (31M, 24F) both of mine. I haven't stressed my starting battery, so I have no input on your longevity. I upgraded to an aftermarket 250amp alt. and bought a NOCO jump starter that worked really well last year when the aftermarket alt. crapped out. It killed a cell in the OEM hence the 2nd X2 now. I've read the DC POWER ENGINEERING is a good alt. but PRICEY! Anyway, went back to the OEM alt. for awhile and then put on an Ultima stock replacement using the OEM as back up. Ultima is doing fine for 10k miles now. I don't let the alt. charge the deep cycle anymore keeping them separate most of the time unless the use of power demands it. I have a tender at home and solar at camp to keep the deep cycle maintained.
My loads haven't been much more than the fridge on its dc setting because powering the fridge through my sub par CAT inverter is WAY inefficient. But, the 31M powers my offroad lights for hours isolated from the system. I do notice the ARB CKMA 12 comp. runs more efficiently when tied into the charging system, rated at 23A under load. As far as cost? I don't remember and don't want to lol. I work so damn much I haven't used it enough to justify the expense. :redbrick: Almost $700 for the batteries alone and I did the big 3, winch and House battery cable in #2 marine or welding cable so that wasn't cheap either. It was fun planning and putting it all together though.
You may have already seen there are definitely cheaper alternatives on this forum. [MENTION=47340]Titanpat57[/MENTION] has one off the top of my head. http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/125772-dual-batteries-cheap.html
Good Luck!!

 

[007Tacoma]

Those damn X2s are expensive but so far so good with (31M, 24F) both of mine. I haven't stressed my starting battery, so I have no input on your longevity. I upgraded to an aftermarket 250amp alt. and bought a NOCO jump starter that worked really well last year when the aftermarket alt. crapped out. It killed a cell in the OEM hence the 2nd X2 now. I've read the DC POWER ENGINEERING is a good alt. but PRICEY! Anyway, went back to the OEM alt. for awhile and then put on an Ultima stock replacement using the OEM as back up. Ultima is doing fine for 10k miles now. I don't let the alt. charge the deep cycle anymore keeping them separate most of the time unless the use of power demands it. I have a tender at home and solar at camp to keep the deep cycle maintained.
My loads haven't been much more than the fridge on its dc setting because powering the fridge through my sub par CAT inverter is WAY inefficient. But, the 31M powers my offroad lights for hours isolated from the system. I do notice the ARB CKMA 12 comp. runs more efficiently when tied into the charging system, rated at 23A under load. As far as cost? I don't remember and don't want to lol. I work so damn much I haven't used it enough to justify the expense. :redbrick: Almost $700 for the batteries alone and I did the big 3, winch and House battery cable in #2 marine or welding cable so that wasn't cheap either. It was fun planning and putting it all together though.
You may have already seen there are definitely cheaper alternatives on this forum. [MENTION=47340]Titanpat57[/MENTION] has one off the top of my head. http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/125772-dual-batteries-cheap.html
Good Luck!!

Thanks!

I hear ya on the cost. I am going to help a few friends (all of whom have more... disposable funding than I do) set up their systems before I dive into the fray. Pat, Corey, Jeff, and a few others are definitely giving us all good input on these. Now I just need to make my way up the East Coast and buy all these guys and gals a drink...

Thanks again!
:cheers:

 

[Bumbo]

I love the information, and coming from the nautical world I already love the Blue Sea products (I have the 12 circuit fuse + negative block in my truck already).

I hope you don't mind me asking a few questions:

• Did you upgrade the alternator?
• What load are you typically using this for (besides the fridge)?
• ...and, of course, how much did this all cost you?

The more camping, wheeling, and exploring we do; the more I question if my brand new X2 Power (Northstar) 24F Battery is going to handle everything I throw at it. Also... getting stranded is not my idea of fun... well, sometimes, but I like having options.

Did not upgrade the alternator... I am generally not running high amp loads, but running smaller persistent loads. The LVD has become a key component to battery health and protection as I can set the disconnect voltage. The LVD feeds the AUX fuse panel.

My entire system was designed around the need to make it bullet proof / fool proof. The wife needs to be able to use it worry free, and for the system to self-correct and manage itself. If I hit a low voltage event, the LVD cuts the load to protect the system, and when the voltage gets back into normal operating range (starting the truck or solar) the system self-resets and resumes normal operation.

Loads Include:
ARB Fridge
1 x Yaesu Ham Radio
1 x Kenwood Ham Radio as a Repeater
Always on USB ports for charging
3x Always on 12v Quick Disconnects using Anderson connections
Various lighting loads on switches

The Anderson Quick disconnects allow me to hot plug accessories...
12v Heated Blanket
AC Inverter
External connections for charging & solar
External connections for tent power
External connections for air pump

The key take away for the Anderson quick disconnects are flexibility… those connections are capable of 45A, but I have everything fused at 30A for external power.

Here is what the connector looks like…

I generally just run a line into my tent, lighting, blankets, air mattress pump whatever...

Low Voltage Disconnect in background and Fuse Block

LVD control

External ports for charging and maintaining... fridge, radios and other gear is often times "always on" even when sitting for days.

Andersons make it quick work to remove the fridge... its an accessory shared between two trucks.

More power in more places...

I wanted to make things modular... which is proven to be very useful depending on what it is I am doing, and where it is I am going...

The ACR I used allows me to get extra run time, because the starter battery can be forced to participate in feedings loads. Such a great feature.

All my 12v gear has an Anderson plug these days... across two trucks and the bench in the garage, has been one of the best accessories I have bought to date.

Battery chargers for 18650 / Lithium cells.

Even custom plug and play accessories like fused links...

I even have the same connector on my test equipment... makes to FAST work for both voltage and amperage measurements.

I can even run my fridge off an ammo can... bear box anyone?

Which also happens to have a solar charge controller in it...

Cost wasn't as bad as one might think... but the nick-knacks and accessories can really add up. I did all the work myself, so the savings were pretty huge. Its was a time consuming process, and the cost of tools was also a factor, but it was well worth it.

 

[4RunnerAquasport]

Thanks!

I hear ya on the cost. I am going to help a few friends (all of whom have more... disposable funding than I do) set up their systems before I dive into the fray. Pat, Corey, Jeff, and a few others are definitely giving us all good input on these. Now I just need to make my way up the East Coast and buy all these guys and gals a drink...

Thanks again!
:cheers:

I need to get up there to meet those folks and buy them their next drink after you lol. I've learned a TON from them. The first thread I went through after I bought my 5th was the Antman oil change how to.
:thumb:

 

[Titanpat57]

Thanks!

I hear ya on the cost. I am going to help a few friends (all of whom have more... disposable funding than I do) set up their systems before I dive into the fray. Pat, Corey, Jeff, and a few others are definitely giving us all good input on these. Now I just need to make my way up the East Coast and buy all these guys and gals a drink...

Thanks again!
:cheers:

I'll be waiting for that cold one...lol.

This time around I opted for the 100w solar panel...a single group 31, and opted for li-ion jump charger. A savings of about $300 dollars and 55 lbs.....so far, running a Dometic fridge 10 months...and the bigger 60qt Dometic camping...not one failure yet.

 

[4RunnerAquasport]

And the Ante has just been upped. [MENTION=144483]Bumbo[/MENTION] Nicely done Sir!! I remember your ammo box rig now. Freakin brilliant!! [MENTION=73851]007Tacoma[/MENTION] Now there is some real info.

 

[007Tacoma]

Well, I hit the MOTHERLOAD!!!

[MENTION=144483]Bumbo[/MENTION]

:jaw: :faint2: :jaw:

:hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail:

This. 100% this. Thank you. ...now I owe one more person a drink.

I'll be waiting for that cold one...lol.

This time around I opted for the 100w solar panel...a single group 31, and opted for li-ion jump charger. A savings of about $300 dollars and 55 lbs.....so far, running a Dometic fridge 10 months...and the bigger 60qt Dometic camping...not one failure yet.

As my boss would say, "2019 Project" LOL

...still a cool setup. I need to do some more research. Thank you - everyone!

 

[Bumbo]

[MENTION=73851]007Tacoma[/MENTION] well I do like beer haha

If you have any questions let me know... I did a lot of designing as I go with this, and even changed the ACR after it was all built because I wanted the model I have now...

I think the most challenging part was getting off the computer and into the garage to actually build it. I spent sooo much time reading, researching, buying parts late into the night...

Placement of components and routing became a bit of a brain teaser.

Building your own cables, terminals, strippers, crimp lugs, heat shrink, loom, and all the tools that go along with it including things like DMM / clamp amp meters really help you do it right.

I know you asked about cost, but its hard to gauge it because I bought a lot of tools and added it to the project cost. Also bought more than I need... enough that I actually had enough left over stuff to wire up my Silverado as well, which is where that other SI-ACR went that I had in my write up.

2 batteries 1 truck, turned into 4 batteries 2 trucks and still have left over parts haha. That said, I do enjoy electrical stuff as a hobby so...

The ACR, LVD, and other BlueSea gear was really the least of my concerns from the cost standpoint... looking at probably <$250 for just those parts.

I probably spent $200-$250 in just Anderson gear... already blew though the $100 box in various projects and did a re-supply just for garage stock.
https://powerwerx.com/anderson-power-powerpole-sb-connectors

I like buying quality which doesn't help the bottom line.

Add a fridge, accessories, solar, radios, tools... few grand later... you get what I got.