BlackCat914
New member
so it can help a trans last longer because it works less, but not an engine?
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Ebay 5vz-fe Turbo
- Thread starter Singtoe
- Start date
so it can help a trans last longer because it works less, but not an engine?
steezemcqueen
Moderator
Depends on how you drive it. Before i did the S/C on my truck, i had to keep the throttle pinned at 4000+ rpm to get over some of the passes here in CO. With the SC, i can drive it a lot easier and it gets better MPG to boot. Perhaps even though it is being driven easier, it may still be subject to more wear because of the boost. Who knows. Its way more fun to drive though.
1985taylor1925
Senior Member
This is what im talking about. When I make the drive back to Cheyenne, WY, with the wind and elevation my truck is always pushing down to 3rd. Driving in the mountains in a nightmare. Then add some cargo weight . . . its not even worth trying. Not to detract from the turbo conversation, but did the sc completely eliminated downshifting for you on the highway at high elevations? On a road like I-70 going out of Denver for example, can you cruise in 5th?
1985taylor1925
Senior Member
So whats the solution to boost leaks? Just using higher quality seals and couplers? And leaks wont be such a problem if youre running lower boost (say set at 8) and driving conservatively right? I understand how the turbo presents many issues on a 3rd gen for someone who really want to push the psi and stomp the pedal. Im just trying to get an accurated idea of how this would work for people such as myself who would add the turbo and continue driving the same way I always have
bikerjosh
New member
tranny/engine longevity with SC or turbo addition
This is a slippery slope with the ATs in the 4runners. You are creating more hp with a turbo or supercharger so unless you lope it along you are going to cause more stress to the clutch packs under acceleration. A number of people experienced slipping transmissions after adding an S/C and 7th injector. Add a smaller puller (S/C) for more boost and/or meth and you will speed up the process. Re-valving the valvebody (Level 10 or IPD) are some of your only options short of having a more robust tranny (insert horrible internet tranny photo-here) built. :bolt:
josh
This is a slippery slope with the ATs in the 4runners. You are creating more hp with a turbo or supercharger so unless you lope it along you are going to cause more stress to the clutch packs under acceleration. A number of people experienced slipping transmissions after adding an S/C and 7th injector. Add a smaller puller (S/C) for more boost and/or meth and you will speed up the process. Re-valving the valvebody (Level 10 or IPD) are some of your only options short of having a more robust tranny (insert horrible internet tranny photo-here) built. :bolt:
josh
BlackCat914
New member
am I saying that adding compressed air is better for an engine? No. I'm saying that with the addition of a small amount of boost, an engine has to work less to create the same hp result. Meaning you create useable horsepower at a lower RPM, reducing the need to rev your motor to the moon. Sure, gears are a way to *FEEL* like you've created more power, but you're increasing engine RPM with addition of gear. RPM is what kills motors. ANY lightly boosted engine will run damn near forever, if the rev's are kept in check.
You're stuck in the mindset that people turbo their trucks and throw 454554905094545lbs of boost at them. 6-8lbs of boost is nothing, and I wouldn't think twice about adding a turbo to any high mileage engine, assuming a compression/leakdown test proved ok. Even then, you'd probably just develop some blow by in a high mileage engine, but big deal.
In my opinion, I'd rather throw a small amount of boost at my truck vs. adding a ton of gear and revving it high hell to attempt to create the same result. But what do I know, I've only been in the auto repair industry for 13 years, with 10 of them doing high performance work on GM vehicles. :laugh:
paddlenbike
Member
The old-style superchargers did have significant parasitic drag, but the TRD Supercharger has a bypass valve and Eaton (who manufacturers it) claims the parasitic drag of this sc is less than 1/5th of 1 horsepower. Of course that is in vacuum and up to 0 psi of boost, there is more parasitic drag than that when you're under positive pressure.
I have always been a turbo guy. I've owned two turbocharged Volvos, a late model turbo Subaru and a 430 hp turbo Supra. I really wanted a turbo for the 4Runner but ended up with the TRD SC. I have completely changed my preference, I like the SC much better. Here's why: 1) instant power, even at low RPMs, 2) it's a Toyota/TRD part and if something goes wrong on a trip, a Toyota dealer can work on it, 3) it's smog legal, 4) easy to install and tune, 5) it is completely self-contained and doesn't have external coolant lines and oil lines (that always leak) like a turbo, and lastly 6) an intercooled turbo setup adds at least 7 or 8 feet of intercooler plumbing (which can also leak) and throttle response suffers--with the SC, throttle response is immediate. If you stab the throttle in any of my Supras/Subarus/Volvos, the engine doesn't respond nearly as quickly as the 4Runner and that's because it doesn't have to feed air into 7 feet of pipe before it reaches the cylinders. And if you need a 7th reason, turbos eventually bake every single wire and hose in your engine bay due to the heat--the SC does not.
I used to be a turbo guy but I'd never go back now.
Regarding the ebay kit, looks nice, but the stock fuel injection won't be able to deliver. There are hidden costs.
BlackCat914
New member
my question was more rhetorical. I agree with you. If anything, adding hp, by any means, will be hard on the trans. The clutches were designed to hold X amount of force, and generally crap out before an engine does.
JayRolla
New member
Engine works harder when you add boost, needs more fuel, better fuel, lower timing, higher chance of detonation.
TRD said the trans would last longer because our stock motor makes the trans have too downshift over and over when towing or driving up hills. If you go above 10psi it will hurt the trans.
No offense but you've probably owned some terrible turbos in your days. I'm not backing this kit but buy a quality turbo and you will have none of those problems. You guys can't compare shit budget build turbo's to having a proper set up. Turbos are coming back fast in the automotive world, bmw 328i, ford f150 both great examples, more power and more fuel economy. F1 is going back to turbo's next year as well, there will be a big swing from displacement to force injection in the next 10 years as the cafe requirements start to hit the oem's hard. If it is done properly you will have no problems with boost leaks or wires or whatever the hell you are saying will break.
to clear another thing up I have noticed in this thread, psi is meaningless, cfm is what is important.
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JayRolla
New member
Those problems still happen on new cars. Even with a stock turbo charged, say evolution lancer x if you jab the gas real fast and back off you wont even feel it. Its not like a v8 where the power just comes in with the throttle, you litteraly have to get on it and wait for the power too come. I have been in many turbo cars and even new stock turbos feel like that.
All info I give is personal experience, you wont get hearsay from me, here is my buddy's evo next to my 4runner.
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I'm not trying to say lag does not exist, i'm simply saying they can be reliable. I would not be interested in a single turbo set up on a 4runner, like i said in an earlier post a small twin turbo set up would be what I would, and hope to build in the future, main goal would be fuel economy.
that's my car, daily driven for 8 months of the year, 300whp out of a 2.0L motor, when you shift a 8000rpm lag is not an issue. I barely ever rev my 4runner over 3g so a single turbo imo is not the way to go unless your trying to make a drag truck. I'm just trying to make a point that turbos are reliable when quality parts are used, you have a good tune, and of course maintained.
that's my car, daily driven for 8 months of the year, 300whp out of a 2.0L motor, when you shift a 8000rpm lag is not an issue. I barely ever rev my 4runner over 3g so a single turbo imo is not the way to go unless your trying to make a drag truck. I'm just trying to make a point that turbos are reliable when quality parts are used, you have a good tune, and of course maintained.
paddlenbike
Member
How can you possibly say that without knowing who I am or what I've built? What do you think will be more reliable, an OEM TRD supercharged application that maintains the original factory warranty, is 50-state emissions legal, has a 5-hour install time and has been used by ten of thousands of people, and can be serviced by a Toyota dealership, or some cheap ebay turbo kit that to our knowledge has been used on one truck?
I encourage anyone here to install the kit and play with it and see what you can accomplish with it. But I can guarantee it won't be plug and play.
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Swimmerboy2112
New member
The more and more I think about this the more I think that it would be possible to run a dual-charged system, 1 supercharger 1 turbo. Think about it, the TRD supercharger puts out roughly 7psi with the stock 2.37" pulley, go to the 2.2" pulley, and that's another 1.5-2psi. Go down again to the 2.1" pulley and you gain another 1-1.5psi over the 2.2" pulley. That's now a max potential of 10.5 psi. The URD 7th injector CAN support that amount of boost.
Running the supercharger on the stock pulley (7psi) and running the turbo kit on low boost (2-3psi) should be enough for the 7th injector kit to support both the turbo and supercharger since the 7th injector adds fuel when you boost more, it should be a linear ratio of boost to fuel.
Add a methanol injection in the mix and i'd say you'd be safe to run a twin-charged setup!
But like most of you, i'd swap out that turbo for something a little better.
Please add your input as i'd like to see what others think.
-Brian
Running the supercharger on the stock pulley (7psi) and running the turbo kit on low boost (2-3psi) should be enough for the 7th injector kit to support both the turbo and supercharger since the 7th injector adds fuel when you boost more, it should be a linear ratio of boost to fuel.
Add a methanol injection in the mix and i'd say you'd be safe to run a twin-charged setup!
But like most of you, i'd swap out that turbo for something a little better.
Please add your input as i'd like to see what others think.
-Brian
BlackWorksInc
New member
Whoever mentioned the BMW 328i as an example of a "reliable" turbo set-up automatically loses all credibility...
We have had about 4-5 BMW turbo equipped cars (328i & 338i BMWs) blow turbos in under 30k on the clock... They're garbage... Now I do hear nice things about the Ford EcoBoost turbo'd engines in the trucks.
I figured I'd just add my two cents on that... heheh
But seriously... it depends on the installer, quality of the components, and over all competence of who tunes it to make good, reliable power out of the engine; even then you need to think about things that could be directly and indirectly affected (i.e. transmissions, differentials, ect) based on power output.
We have had about 4-5 BMW turbo equipped cars (328i & 338i BMWs) blow turbos in under 30k on the clock... They're garbage... Now I do hear nice things about the Ford EcoBoost turbo'd engines in the trucks.
I figured I'd just add my two cents on that... heheh
But seriously... it depends on the installer, quality of the components, and over all competence of who tunes it to make good, reliable power out of the engine; even then you need to think about things that could be directly and indirectly affected (i.e. transmissions, differentials, ect) based on power output.
Skidmarcx
New member
I wouldn't trust an eBay turbo... Not after failures I've seen. Like mentioned buying this kit and going over welds and such isn't a bad idea... And whoever thinks a transmission works less in a FI application is foolish... Less shifting doesn't mean less work. FI allows for more torque and drivetrain components are only rated for so much. I do agree that mild boost can go along way on a factory engine provided the tune is spot on... The tune is most important. An inexperienced tuner can destroy an NA engine with a bad tune. E85 would be awesome, but I hope you enjoy 10 MPG due to the mandatory 30% more volume needed... of course meth is a viable option as well if you're concerned with range. As far as the battle between turbo and SC... Depends on what you want. I do believe a turbo to be more efficient for the simple fact you have a much better heat exchanger in the loop. I personally like the instant power from a SC, but that instant torque does take a toll on the drivetrain... Especially if you have large tires that won't give. Just food for thought
Mr. B
New member
We have 4runners, which are SUVs btw. If you're looking for a crap load of power, get a different vehicle. If you want just a little more oomph to help you overtake cars or pull heavy loads, don't even bother looking into turbochargers, go do bolt ons or regear yourself. Many people get in way over their head with turbochargers not realizing how much work it takes to get it to run reliable.
When I was into building cars I learned one important rule:
CHEAP, FAST, RELIABLE.
You can only pick two out of the three.
When I was into building cars I learned one important rule:
CHEAP, FAST, RELIABLE.
You can only pick two out of the three.
Singtoe
New member
Singtoe
New member
All this talk about Ebay turbos. Didn't Clownmeet and Yotorman use ebay turbo's in their rear mount. How are they holding up.
I know that STS made a rear mount turbo kit with no fuel management for $4000.
I have to put a new roof on my shop otherwise I will be ordering the front mounted turbo.
If I order it, I will probably get it through Token Solutions. Maybe have a guarantee or better tech support.
I know that STS made a rear mount turbo kit with no fuel management for $4000.
I have to put a new roof on my shop otherwise I will be ordering the front mounted turbo.
If I order it, I will probably get it through Token Solutions. Maybe have a guarantee or better tech support.
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