ebrake cable too short?

[stinkypoop]

Had to engage ebrake on a new 02 4rnr I bought recently, it was frozen but once I yanked super hard it engaged. Went to move again and release the pb, and the rear wheels were stuck and the ebrake didnt seem to disengage.

Ive read the threads about how to disassemble and clean up the bellcranks, so I took the wheels and drums off, cleaned the bc's and while doing that noticed the cable seemed short. Before disassembly I noticed the bc were not actually stuck, they seemed to move freely, but couldnt get them to disengage the brake shoes as the cable seemed too short????. So I went ahead and tore down and rebuilt them anyway. Took the seats and armrest console out and made sure the cable looked ok at the lever, and it does, I have about a quarter inch left beyond the double nuts at the end.

But going to reattach the cable to the drivers side bellcrank and its about an inch too short. No slack left with hand lever down. What is going on here? New truck, so I dont have any history with it and the hand lever seemed stuck before I yanked hard on it to engage. Cable should be long enough to reach that drivers side bc with shoes relaxed on both sides, correct? Ive checked all along its length, but there doesnt seem to be any binding or bracket issues....I dont understand how the cable could be short.

 

[habanero]

Stock height?
3rd gen yes, but more specific mebbe?

 

[stinkypoop]

yes, stock height, all stock, this one....sorry, thought I had my signature in place....

2002 4runner Sport Editon 135k

 

[habanero]

Well, it's not a lift, body, suspension, or otherwise, then.

I replaced mine some time ago and took bunches of pics, but it's so straightforward that you'd know if something wasn't right.
Do you know if the p.o. replaced the original? How did you come to find out it was shorter than needed?
I am assuming the upper and lower rear control arms/bushings are in good enough shape to not allow the axle to shift out of its normal spot....

What I bought and pics of the routing...
habanero's 1996 4Runner Build-Up Thread - Page 69 - YotaTech Forums

 

[stinkypoop]

Well, it's not a lift, body, suspension, or otherwise, then.

I replaced mine some time ago and took bunches of pics, but it's so straightforward that you'd know if something wasn't right.
Do you know if the p.o. replaced the original? How did you come to find out it was shorter than needed?
I am assuming the upper and lower rear control arms/bushings are in good enough shape to not allow the axle to shift out of its normal spot....

What I bought and pics of the routing...
habanero's 1996 4Runner Build-Up Thread - Page 69 - YotaTech Forums

No changes in geometry of the truck. I think I found the issue, but unsure. Noticed when I pulled the hand lever to engage the ebrake, and then released it, the cable didn't retract fully on its own. The cable end seems to be floating freely inside the curved trough, underside of the hand lever assy.

Is it supposed to do that? Seems to be a rectangular ferule of some sort, just below the double nuts at the end, perfectly shaped to fit inside the lever trough, but its perhaps worked itself loose, and this would account for the cable NOT retracting itself. If the ferule was firmly in place, then the cable would be pushed back through the sheathing by the action of pushing the hand lever downwards.

So, this shit it just broken! But looking at the hand lever and it seems riveted together. Not something I can simply take apart and fit a new cable head inside of....and how in gods name do I know the length of cable to buy, even if the lever was serviceable? I'm confused and I keep feeling I'm overlooking something because this is a simple mechanism.....maybe some whiskey neat will help....

 

[MyHigh]

I'm going through the same problem!

A while ago I went to pull the e-brake and it worked but when I went to release it I had tension on the handle. WTF I thought, so I tried to drive and the brake was still engaged. In a hurry I went to the back and hammered the bell crank on the driver side and it release the pressure.

I still don't know how to fix it besides getting a new system, I already replaced the bell cranks and those work great, problem is the little rubber accordion piece when the main cable meets up at the pivot point for the secondary cable that goes from hub to hub. Well that accordion rubber piece is shot and so "I THINK". Water got up in there and ruined the system. No longer can the cable glide freely within the plastic housing due to corrosion. So, I'm going to look for a new system at a junk yard or buy a new one, which is a couple hundred at camelback Toyota.

It's something I need to fix asap because I will not go wheeling without a working e-brake and I so very badly want to go

 

[habanero]

[MENTION=13956]stinkypoop[/MENTION] [MENTION=88597]MyHigh[/MENTION]
No whisky needed! It is optional though....
I've already given you a link on how to remove the cable with pics. Your center console may be different but all should otherwise be similar and it's actually not hard to do. Basically unscrews and slides out!
MyHigh is correct about gunk getting up past the boot, that is what happened to mine, too.
I bought a Dorman cable from Advance Auto using one of their coupon codes for around $50. It was made in Japan and a match for the original....anyway, all in my link.

 

[stinkypoop]

Im one of those guys that wants to understand why the repair is needed in the first place, before actually repairing it.

Ive looked at the boot you mentioned and it seems very intact. Pulling it back reveals no real corrosion. I appreciate the write up but Im reluctant to blindly buy another cable until I know why this cable isnt retracting. I think the issue isnt the cable, but the hand lever....it isnt grabbing the head of the cable and pushing it back when lowered. Gonna keep noodling on this....

 

[MyHigh]

I'm not sure the handle is designed to "push" the cable back down, my understanding of the mechanical design is for the pivot/spring system in the back too pull the cable back as the operator pushes and releases the button.

Problem is I have no clue, much like yourself I'm wanting to know more about the problem rather then blindly replacing parts. I already did that with the bell crank system and it did no good, so I'm right back at why I have slack in the compartment under the handle. I can't even push the cable back let alone having the handle do that, if I remember correctly the handle doesn't have any resistance when releasing the handle it pretty much moves freely once the button is pressed.

 

[stinkypoop]

Yeah, actually now that I think about it, you're correct. Maybe over time the cable just doesn't want to move thru its sheathing from cabin to axle. Time for a new one. But if bell cranks are working right, they should pull that cable thru....?

 

[MyHigh]

Right! One would think they would, unless whatever is causing the resistance is greater then what the springs can pull. Habanero, does have a really good writeup.

 

[WallyWest]

Yeah, actually now that I think about it, you're correct. Maybe over time the cable just doesn't want to move thru its sheathing from cabin to axle. Time for a new one. But if bell cranks are working right, they should pull that cable thru....?

I would think so. I think you basically did this, but I would remove the cable from the bell crank, take the drum off so you can see what's going on inside, and see if the mechanism moves freely when you manually pull the arm that the cable attaches to. When you let it go the springs should pull it back to the disengaged position on their own with a decent amount of force. Those springs are what you're working against when you pull the e-brake handle up, and they should pull the cable back when you release it.

Mine had the opposite problem, the bell cranks were frozen in the engaged position. I don't know how long it had to sit with the e-brake on for that to happen, but it did. It appeared that they drove it that way until the shoes wore down, they had very uneven wear on them. My e-brake handle just flopped around like a dead fish, no resistance at all. Worked fine when I replaced the bell crank, put new shoes on it and adjusted everything properly.

 

[habanero]

I like the way y'all are working things out first. Would really like to hear what the end verdict is!
You are correct in that the handle can only engage the cable and that the Bell crank needs to be in working order. In my case the cable itself was sticking in the engaged position and I was able to pull it free at the rear by the drum as MyHigh did. At first lube would help, but as time went on it got worse and worse, especially on cold wet freezey days. Eventually it stuck near every time. So that all is what prompted the cable replacement. I'd already been in the drum replacing the shoes after a seal leak. You couldn't see the corrosion under the cable housing but the little rubber boot was toast. I also live in the salt belt...
So what happens if you release the cable from the lever at the drum? After releasing the brake if the brake is still on (lever away from drum) pull the pin that holds it (make darned sure you can't get squashed first!!!). Does the brake release? Is it still stuck on? That might give you a clue or two to play with. In gear! Wheel chocks! Mindful of body position! No squishing!

 

[stinkypoop]

I'm spoiled, no wheel chocks or squishing worries for me; I've got a lift in my basement garage. A parting gift from a deer and my last 4runner.

Working alone, its difficult to see what exactly is happening once I release that hand lever. And not sure if this is normal but the forward facing shoe on each side have been worn much much more between the 3 and 6 o'clock positions, than the 12 and 3. In fact, 12-3 looks untouched, as is the rear facing shoe. Is that normal wear for a modern truck? Last drum brake equipped vehicle I worked on was a 1943 Willy's army Jeep, and in those we are lucky to get any grab at all!...

Edit: I forgot to mention that manually releasing the cable I only made it so that I could get the drum back on the axle. I simply worked the shoes back and forth until the drum cleared them.