Engine Noise in aftermarket stereo

[thomaspuzio]

2003 Limited 4Runner w/ JBL system original.

I replaced the speakers, sub, and head unit. Added a sub amp, and am still using factory amp and speaker wire.

Here's my stuff:
Fronts - Kicker 43CSS694

Rears - Kicker 43 CSC674

Sub - Kicker CompR 8" shallow mount

Sub Amp - JL Audio JX250-1

New Head Unit - Pioneer AVH1330NEX

THE PROBLEM:
When I turn the engine on, the Pioneer boots up, after a short delay (lets say the time it takes the factory amp to turn on) I hear a "bzzzzzzzz" from the front right speaker. The noise is constant, as in it doesn't increase in volume when I turn up the volume on the head unit. It also doesn't change when I rev the engine or when I turn on/off up/down the AC/heater. It's always there and noticeable when no music is playing or playing at a very low volume.

If I turn off the engine and just use the head unit off battery power, the noise goes away.

The noise is there on any input (radio, dvd, iphone).

THINGS I'VE TRIED:
1. I checked the ground wire on the sub amp and made sure it's touching bare metal. The guy who installed it just used a single black screw through the paint. I ground it down to metal and used a ring crimper on the end of the ground wire.

2. Wiring behind the head unit. There was a jungle of wires in there from a previous "pro" installer. I took everything out and made it as clean as I could. I ADDED a ground wire from the engine compartment to the head unit, but I didn't REMOVE the original ground wire.

INTERESTING SIDE NOTES:
When I originally installed the head unit, the buzzing noise happened BEFORE the unit finished booting up, but once the warning screen went away, the buzzing would stop (this was in May). I live in Chicago so weather has changed since May. Now the buzzing happens AFTER I boot up. The engine does suffer from some belt noise depending on the humidity in the air and whether it's raining or not.

And like I said, if I turn the key to ACC and just run the radio without the engine on, there's no buzzing noise at all no matter what source I choose.

QUESTION: How do I get rid of this noise?

 

[wc11]

Add a choke coil/noise filter.
Oh and make sure power and rca lines are separated and not running together.

 

[Inv4drZm]

I've got no idea other than taking a look at the alternator and trying to isolate/shield your components from that. I'm guessing that is where the noise is coming from, and that may already be obvious to you.

This might be a wild guess w/ no correlation but the alternator is on the right side of the engine w/ V8's and left side w/ V6's so I'm guessing you have a V8 with your buzzing coming from the right??

 

[thomaspuzio]

I have the v6 so the guess about right/left wasn't it.

I thought of something else though... maybe when I installed the door speakers, the factory wire got frayed somewhere and is now touching bare metal.

The noise seems to only originate from the front right speaker (I'll have to check this again later as I haven't actually paid that close attention to the source before now). Would it be possible that it has a ground loop and cause a buzzing noise as a result? And when the engine is off, the ground isn't looped?

 

[thomaspuzio]

Add a choke coil/noise filter.
Oh and make sure power and rca lines are separated and not running together.

wouldn't the noise rise and fall when I rev the engine if the noise came from the alternator? My noise is a constant level regardless of what the engine or music is doing, which would indicate to me it has something to do with an electrical current that's constant (like low voltage going through speaker wires).

The sub amp is the only thing that has RCAs and those are running through the center console while the sub amp power line runs along the kick plate on the passenger door into the engine bay. So I don't think that's causing anything.

 

[Johns06yota]

try this

Odd noises after 4 channel amp install

I experienced something similar after my amp install. check your gains because that was my issue. If the gains are too high for the speakers they will buzz (same goes for sub I believe)

 

[thomaspuzio]

Odd noises after 4 channel amp install

I experienced something similar after my amp install. check your gains because that was my issue. If the gains are too high for the speakers they will buzz (same goes for sub I believe)

Well I'm using the factory amp which I've never adjusted. The head unit has an EQ but not gains. Also wouldn't that result in the same noise through all the speakers?

I replaced the sub and added a sub amp, but the sub amp wouldn't cause a buzz in the regular channels i don't think.

 

[Johns06yota]

Well I'm using the factory amp which I've never adjusted. The head unit has an EQ but not gains. Also wouldn't that result in the same noise through all the speakers?

I replaced the sub and added a sub amp, but the sub amp wouldn't cause a buzz in the regular channels i don't think.

I'm trying to think. So basically you have an aftermarket head unit with a harness that taps into the oem harness and uses the factory amp? I know you said you checked your grounds but how was the ground done on the new radio? Maybe a secondary ground straight to chassis would help? This sounds like a ground loop issue. Try getting a cheap ground loop 3.5mm for your aux input as a test and if it goes away you know you have a ground loop.

 

[thomaspuzio]

I'm trying to think. So basically you have an aftermarket head unit with a harness that taps into the oem harness and uses the factory amp? I know you said you checked your grounds but how was the ground done on the new radio? Maybe a secondary ground straight to chassis would help? This sounds like a ground loop issue. Try getting a cheap ground loop 3.5mm for your aux input as a test and if it goes away you know you have a ground loop.

When I installed the head unit I used a wiring harness adapter to connect to the factory harness as you said. The ground wire is connected to whatever the original ground was. I thought that may not be enough so I added another wire from the engine bay to the head unit (because I that was the closest spot i could find to easily attach a wire to bare metal). I just sistered this new ground wire to the original ground which is connected to the head unit.

That didn't change anything with regards to the noise (same as before). However I was discouraged and didn't want to take apart my dash again for the umpteenth time and so I just left it. I was thinking I should just use the new ground I installed by itself. The problem is also have a steering wheel control kit in there as well as the wiring harness adapter which is bulky and all that has ground wires too, so there's a large four wire group connected to the ground.

 

[Johns06yota]

When I installed the head unit I used a wiring harness adapter to connect to the factory harness as you said. The ground wire is connected to whatever the original ground was. I thought that may not be enough so I added another wire from the engine bay to the head unit (because I that was the closest spot i could find to easily attach a wire to bare metal). I just sistered this new ground wire to the original ground which is connected to the head unit.

That didn't change anything with regards to the noise (same as before). However I was discouraged and didn't want to take apart my dash again for the umpteenth time and so I just left it. I was thinking I should just use the new ground I installed by itself. The problem is also have a steering wheel control kit in there as well as the wiring harness adapter which is bulky and all that has ground wires too, so there's a large four wire group connected to the ground.

I know you dont want to rip the dash out again but would there be a way you could test a speaker just in line with the radio instead of going through the factory amp to see if the noise goes away? I'm wondering if the JBL amp is causing interference due to the output wattage of the new stereo flowing through the old amp

 

[thomaspuzio]

I know you dont want to rip the dash out again but would there be a way you could test a speaker just in line with the radio instead of going through the factory amp to see if the noise goes away? I'm wondering if the JBL amp is causing interference due to the output wattage of the new stereo flowing through the old amp

Ok so let's assume for a second that I do as you suggest and the noise goes away. Does this mean that the amp is bad and I need to replace it?

If I need to replace it, what kind of amp would i buy to replace it? I like the front center and rear pillar tweeters as I feel it makes for a more enveloping sound presence. A four channel amp wouldn't let me use those speakers would it?

Also, replacing the amp would mean essentially tearing out much of the interior as I'd have to run a new power line to the am because I'm assuming whatever is powering the OEM amp isn't sufficient for an aftermarket model. Given it's the middle of winter in Chicago and I don't have a garage, this project would then have to wait until spring or summer.

Would the sound be crippled if I just wired up my speakers directly from my head unit?

Here's the specs on my Pioneer AVH-1330NEX:
(14 watts RMS CEA-2006/50 peak x 4 channels)


I think I read somewhere on this forum that the Factory JBL amp puts out like 25 wats RMS.

Thoughts?

 

[Johns06yota]

Ok so let's assume for a second that I do as you suggest and the noise goes away. Does this mean that the amp is bad and I need to replace it?

If I need to replace it, what kind of amp would i buy to replace it? I like the front center and rear pillar tweeters as I feel it makes for a more enveloping sound presence. A four channel amp wouldn't let me use those speakers would it?

Also, replacing the amp would mean essentially tearing out much of the interior as I'd have to run a new power line to the am because I'm assuming whatever is powering the OEM amp isn't sufficient for an aftermarket model. Given it's the middle of winter in Chicago and I don't have a garage, this project would then have to wait until spring or summer.

Would the sound be crippled if I just wired up my speakers directly from my head unit?

Here's the specs on my Pioneer AVH-1330NEX:
(14 watts RMS CEA-2006/50 peak x 4 channels)


I think I read somewhere on this forum that the Factory JBL amp puts out like 25 wats RMS.

Thoughts?

So when I first did my radio upgrade I just used the power from the radio to power the speakers and it sounded pretty good but not great. I later added a 4 channel amp under my passenger seat and ran new 16 gauge speaker wire and then ran the rca's directly from the back of the radio for signal. This was a major sound upgrade.

Now with your setup if the amp is bad with a aftermarket 4 channel amp you could run everything including the center channel. From what I found you can bridge the left and right channel output (positive from one and negative from the other) and run a resistor in line with that speaker to gain the center channel. This website outlines it.

How To - Car Stereo - How To Install A Center Channel

It would be probably a couple days work (mine took about that long) but the fronts and dash speaker would be relatively simple wire runs. The rear doors aren't too bad but if you had component speakers in the rear, you could run the woofer in the door and the tweeter in the rear location with the crossover for those located somewhere in the rear of the car.

This is the amp that I run and I have been extremely happy with it.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00BLQA9BM/ref=oh_aui_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[riceandpho]

make sure to tape off all individual wires separately and then bundle together if need too.

are you using any amp interface?

is the sub amp rca direct from back of radio?

what harness is used to integrate with jbl amp?
JBL Amplifier Turn-On Interface - PAC

i usually dont deal with these install that use factory amp.

i prefer to wire up aftermarket amp with aftermarket speaker install and not deal with the old stuff.

 

[thomaspuzio]

make sure to tape off all individual wires separately and then bundle together if need too.

are you using any amp interface?

is the sub amp rca direct from back of radio?

what harness is used to integrate with jbl amp?
JBL Amplifier Turn-On Interface - PAC

i usually dont deal with these install that use factory amp.

i prefer to wire up aftermarket amp with aftermarket speaker install and not deal with the old stuff.

To connect the Pioneet head unit to the oem JBL amp I used a Metra TYTO-01 JBL Amplifier Interface Harness. I tried my best to correct the rats nest of wires that the "pro" installer had in the dash from my previous head unit upgrade. They didn't use any connectors at all, just pigtail twisted the wires and electrical taped it together. After removing all the gunk from the melted tape glue, trimming the wires, I then used crimp connectors (I don't own a portable torch and I don't have a garage) and cleaned up the wires as best I could.

Before:

After:

The sub amp gets it's signal from RCA out off the head unit.

I confirmed the bzzzz noise is ONLY coming from the right front tweeter (it's a coaxial speaker). Maybe the speaker is touching a part of the metal mounting bracket and grounding itself somehow?

If I can't fix this buzzing by inspecting that tweeter and perhaps jiggling the wires like I'm The Fonz, my next step will be to buy a new amp and run new wire to all speakers.

I get a four channel amp concept (left/right front and back).

I get a five channel amp concept (ditch my current sub amp, replace it with 5 channel amp and run all the door speakers and the sub off one amp)

But both of those options eliminate the center front tweeter and the rear pillar tweeters. As stated earlier, it's possible to run a sort of hack off the front channel left/right with a resistor to make the center channel. But what about the rear pillars? Is this where you get involved with an 8-channel amp?
Channels 1-2 = front left/right
Channels 3-4 = rear left/right
Channels 5/6 = rear pillars left/right, AND combine the center channel hack
Channels 7/8 = sub

Or is there some other way to do this properly?

I get most people will advise me to simply ditch the center and rear pillars because "you won't hear them anyway," but what's the correct way to setup this system as Toyota did?

 

[riceandpho]

To connect the Pioneet head unit to the oem JBL amp I used a Metra TYTO-01 JBL Amplifier Interface Harness. I tried my best to correct the rats nest of wires that the "pro" installer had in the dash from my previous head unit upgrade. They didn't use any connectors at all, just pigtail twisted the wires and electrical taped it together. After removing all the gunk from the melted tape glue, trimming the wires, I then used crimp connectors (I don't own a portable torch and I don't have a garage) and cleaned up the wires as best I could.

Before:

After:

The sub amp gets it's signal from RCA out off the head unit.

I confirmed the bzzzz noise is ONLY coming from the right front tweeter (it's a coaxial speaker). Maybe the speaker is touching a part of the metal mounting bracket and grounding itself somehow?

If I can't fix this buzzing by inspecting that tweeter and perhaps jiggling the wires like I'm The Fonz, my next step will be to buy a new amp and run new wire to all speakers.

I get a four channel amp concept (left/right front and back).

I get a five channel amp concept (ditch my current sub amp, replace it with 5 channel amp and run all the door speakers and the sub off one amp)

But both of those options eliminate the center front tweeter and the rear pillar tweeters. As stated earlier, it's possible to run a sort of hack off the front channel left/right with a resistor to make the center channel. But what about the rear pillars? Is this where you get involved with an 8-channel amp?
Channels 1-2 = front left/right
Channels 3-4 = rear left/right
Channels 5/6 = rear pillars left/right, AND combine the center channel hack
Channels 7/8 = sub

Or is there some other way to do this properly?

I get most people will advise me to simply ditch the center and rear pillars because "you won't hear them anyway," but what's the correct way to setup this system as Toyota did?

if you ditch the jbl amp and use a 4 channel, you can fit it under driver seat.
run the rear pillar speaker with some bass blockers for the tweeter. you can use the rear speaker out from radio, now for center channel, i would just use the left front channel of the radio wire.

usually i wouldnt bother with the center or the rear pillar tweeters.