Engine Swap Question

[mtbtim]

Hey Dudes,

For those of you that have swapped out a motor on one of these rigs, did you feel it was necessary to have the transmission out of the vehicle? The first step in the FSM states to remove the transmission. I'm guessing this is not necessary. [MENTION=102606]infamousRNR[/MENTION] are going to document a motor swap this coming week and I wanted some confirmation that the removal of the trans isn't necessary. Common sense says it's not necessary but these are uncharted waters for us and I wanted your guys feedback before diving into this. Thanks!

 

[drei4runner29]

I can ask my mechanic if he removed my transmission when he swapped out my engine. But it will have to be tomorrow since today's Sunday. I know that's not the answer you're looking for.

 

[T4R2014]

Not at all.

 

[sleepydad]

Hey Dudes,

For those of you that have swapped out a motor on one of these rigs, did you feel it was necessary to have the transmission out of the vehicle? The first step in the FSM states to remove the transmission. Thanks!

Not at all.

second this, you don't need to remove the trans.

if your interested I can add to this reply on what I think the easiest way to do it, I have pulled 4x engines, dropped 2x engines back in. I'm sure there are some on the forum who have done it more times than me but I have some things I do that make it way easier for me than the first one I did.

please advise?

 

[UnderFire]

I've done every combo available. For anything 2wd, pull the motor/trans together. 4 cylinder 4x4 you can either take the tcase off and leave the tranny on, or leave the tranny in place.

V6 and 4x4 leave the tranny in place, auto is the worst one to work on but that's still the easiest way.

You'll probably want to take the transmission crossmember loose to maneuver it, and you'll unplug everything off the trans in order to pull the engine with harness still attached. You do not have to disassemble the engine at all to pull it, no matter which one you have. Manifolds, pans, accessory drive, wiring, fuel system all stays attached as each one has a disconnect available between the body/frame and engine.

Sent from my JSN-L23 using Tapatalk

 

[Dieselchessy]

I leave the tranny and leave the harness on the tranny. I take the harness loose from the side of the tranny and the front axle and off the top of the engine and zip tie it to the wipers and hood hinges. You have to get the fuel lines out of the way.
I jack up under the tranny to tilt it up while I lift the engine so the oil pan sump can clear.

Going back in is a pain and probably hard on the tranny pump and input shaft. I use long bolts with the heads cut off and turned into slotted screws with rounded points threaded into the engine as alignment pins. It can still be a pain to get the engine to mate up smoothly.

I hate trying to get the harness off the tranny and O2 sensors so I leave it.

If your in the junk yard pulling one your not putting back, then pull it with the harness still on the engine.

 

[mtbtim]

second this, you don't need to remove the trans.

if your interested I can add to this reply on what I think the easiest way to do it, I have pulled 4x engines, dropped 2x engines back in. I'm sure there are some on the forum who have done it more times than me but I have some things I do that make it way easier for me than the first one I did.

please advise?

Yes, please share.

 

[19963.4lsr5]

I’ve done three leaving the trans in with the V6.

Read my 1997 SR5 Build and Repair thread. It pretty much documents everything. Including some of the tools needed which I’m sure you already know about.

I did the last engine by myself and the part that takes the longest for me is getting the engine and trans mated up.

Like MR Diesel I pull the harness from the ECU and unplug everything up top and lay it over the drivers fender out of the way.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[thegipper]

I've pulled two engines, both times with the transmission disconnected and left in place. I'd imagine the hardest part would be getting the entire engine/tranny back in simply because of the length. Obviously it can be done as noted above.

If I was going to junk yard to get an engine, I'd pull the whole engine with the tranny still on (less stuff to disconnect). Then once it was out, it'll be easier to separate the two. If I needed to just replace a bad engine in my truck, I'd leave the tranny in place and just pull the motor.

 

[dogtail]

Not sure if you're doing an auto or manual. But if a 5 speed and you end up just pulling the Tcase off, plug the big black hole on the back of the trans, cause oil will dump out of the trans when you tilt it up out of the engine bay.
Pictured is a pic of rusted out parts rig (5spd Tcase removed) I'm pulling the motor/trans out for a swap.

 

[Joelzy]

no need to remove it and i'd imagine more of a pain to do so unless it needs work.

I got lucky in that my tranny was out of the 4R when i bought it. Rebuilt the motor and hooked the tranny and TC up in my garage. Biggest hurdle was fitting it all in as one but i wanted to swap the core support out anyway.

Not sure if you're doing an auto or manual. But if a 5 speed and you end up just pulling the Tcase off, plug the big black hole on the back of the trans, cause oil will dump out of the trans when you tilt it up out of the engine bay.
Pictured is a pic of rusted out parts rig (5spd Tcase removed) I'm pulling the motor/trans out for a swap.

were you able to get the motor and tranny out as one with the core support in place? I considered and even with the TC off and a load leveler it looked like there was no way.

 

[rideexileex]

Just pulled my motor and I'm a proponent of leaving the wiring harness in place and pulling the motor without it. Reason being - supercharger ECU is spliced into my harness and would have been a pain to remove.

Biggest pains are the transmission access plate and the flex plate bolts. Definitely helps here to have two people! V6 auto.

 

[19963.4lsr5]

Just pulled my motor and I'm a proponent of leaving the wiring harness in place and pulling the motor without it. Reason being - supercharger ECU is spliced into my harness and would have been a pain to remove.

Biggest pains are the transmission access plate and the flex plate bolts. Definitely helps here to have two people! V6 auto.

Yep and leave the hardest to get to dust cover bolt in your toolbox. Three are plenty.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[mtbtim]

So it seems nobody is saying removing the trans is necessary. But, I can now see why the FSM says to do it this way. When [MENTION=102606]infamousRNR[/MENTION] and I did the trans swap on his 2002, it took us some time to line up the trans with the engine even with a transmission jack with the ability to be adjusted and tilted perfectly to line up with the motor. I'm envisioning a real struggle getting the motor to line up with the trans. I'm guessing you guys had to disconnect the trans from the crossmember to help line things up.

For the guys that are leaving the harness attached to the trans and transfer case, how much of the top end of the engine do you need to remove to get the harness completely free of the engine? I've removed the harness completely one time but it was on a motor that was already pulled and on a pallet and I don't quite remember what it will take to get the harness completely free of the motor.

I still don't know which way we will go with this. I don't know what's worse. Spending the extra time to pull the transfer case and trans so we won't have a horrible time trying to mate the new engine with the transmission or foregoing the trans and transfer case removal knowing there we will have a serious fight on our hands getting the two lined up.

 

[thegipper]

So it seems nobody is saying removing the trans is necessary. But, I can now see why the FSM says to do it this way. When [MENTION=102606]infamousRNR[/MENTION] and I did the trans swap on his 2002, it took us some time to line up the trans with the engine even with a transmission jack with the ability to be adjusted and tilted perfectly to line up with the motor. I'm envisioning a real struggle getting the motor to line up with the trans. I'm guessing you guys had to disconnect the trans from the crossmember to help line things up.

For the guys that are leaving the harness attached to the trans and transfer case, how much of the top end of the engine do you need to remove to get the harness completely free of the engine? I've removed the harness completely one time but it was on a motor that was already pulled and on a pallet and I don't quite remember what it will take to get the harness completely free of the motor.

I still don't know which way we will go with this. I don't know what's worse. Spending the extra time to pull the transfer case and trans so we won't have a horrible time trying to mate the new engine with the transmission or foregoing the trans and transfer case removal knowing there we will have a serious fight on our hands getting the two lined up.

It's been a couple years since I removed the engine harness but I want to say it was 45 minutes ish to get it off. You need to take the upper/lower plenum off to disconnect the connectors on the injectors (drivers side). Other than that, it was all easy and pretty clear cut on what needs to be removed.

Aligning the engine back onto the transmission was definitely a PITA. Especially since I was dumb enough to do it by myself. Getting the motor mount bolt and nuts back on was also a nightmare. I don't know why toyota didn't make the mounts with threaded studs in them, instead it's two bolts and nuts on each side. There really isn't a good way/angle to get to them.

Hope this helps Tim

 

[phattyduck]

I don't know why toyota didn't make the mounts with threaded studs in them, instead it's two bolts and nuts on each side. There really isn't a good way/angle to get to them.

Hope this helps Tim

In the past, I have cut the heads off (extra) bolts used for the bellhousing to help pre-align the engine and trans for reassembly. If you have some extra bolts available, it might be worth considering. You'll need to cut some slots in the home made studs to allow you to remove them to put in the correct bolts later.

When we did the 4WD transmission swap, we had an articulating trans jack and a lift (and a couple guys) to help get everything aligned, so I don't remember it being a huge hassle.

Good luck, Tim! I hope it is a fun project.

-Charlie

 

[rideexileex]

So it seems nobody is saying removing the trans is necessary. But, I can now see why the FSM says to do it this way. When [MENTION=102606]infamousRNR[/MENTION] and I did the trans swap on his 2002, it took us some time to line up the trans with the engine even with a transmission jack with the ability to be adjusted and tilted perfectly to line up with the motor. I'm envisioning a real struggle getting the motor to line up with the trans. I'm guessing you guys had to disconnect the trans from the crossmember to help line things up.

For the guys that are leaving the harness attached to the trans and transfer case, how much of the top end of the engine do you need to remove to get the harness completely free of the engine? I've removed the harness completely one time but it was on a motor that was already pulled and on a pallet and I don't quite remember what it will take to get the harness completely free of the motor.

I still don't know which way we will go with this. I don't know what's worse. Spending the extra time to pull the transfer case and trans so we won't have a horrible time trying to mate the new engine with the transmission or foregoing the trans and transfer case removal knowing there we will have a serious fight on our hands getting the two lined up.

As previously said, all that's needed is removing the upper/lower intake plenum or supercharger, just to get at all the electrical connectors, etc.

One thing I'll say, is that if the video is really geared towards an engine SWAP, leaving the wire harness intact probably makes more sense anyway. Unless someone has their own parts truck, most donor engines and harnesses are cut out.

My trick for aligning the pins was to set the motor on the frame perches, place the 4 isolator to frame perch bolts and barely start the nuts, just to keep the motor from moving too much. Then, my engine was slightly 'twisted?', so I used the engine lift to lightly lift from a single lift point, and everything fell into place easily. My transmission was still connected to the transmission mount, but I did have a floor jack with a scrap 2x4 on the front to assist with the tilt.

 

[19963.4lsr5]

My trick for aligning the pins was to set the motor on the frame perches, place the 4 isolator to frame perch bolts and barely start the nuts, just to keep the motor from moving too much. Then, my engine was slightly 'twisted?', so I used the engine lift to lightly lift from a single lift point, and everything fell into place easily. My transmission was still connected to the transmission mount, but I did have a floor jack with a scrap 2x4 on the front to assist with the tilt.

That’s basically how I did it too but I only put the front bolt in each motor mount.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[plcfcng]

Having a floor jack handy to help tilt the Transmission as it may sag a little. Remember to align the Torque converter as things get close. Never use the Bell housing bolts to draw it together with a lot of force. Using hand tools to draw the bell housing down is the way to go.:juggle:

 

[mtbtim]

Thanks for all the tips guys. Our project unfortunately has been put on hold due to the Corona Virus situation. The guy [MENTION=102606]infamousRNR[/MENTION] and I were going to help lives in Arizona and works for a small utility company as a lineman. His company asked all personnel to cancel their time off in case some of the guys gets sick and the others will have to pick up the slack, especially if there's a power outage. Hopefully we'll be able to reschedule this once our civilization gets back to normal.