Final fix for intermittent no-crank on the 22re.

[85straight]

Victory!!

I finally got around to fixing this very annoying issue...after owning my truck for quite some time. I must be stubborn because it took me all but an hour to do. Thanks for the simple,easy to understand write up kidv
:bluejump:

 

[KidVermicious]

Glad it helped!

 

[gretsch]

Howdy,
thanks for this post. I'll spare you the details of how I got drafted into performing this surgery on my exGF's truck. This gonna be the "dumb guy" question of the day. I was with you until step D. The 8ga wire terminates at which post of the starter?
Thanks for your help.

 

[KidVermicious]

Hi gretsch, welcome to the site. There's two wires leading to the starter - one is the heavy gauge cable coming straight from the battery, and terminates on the screw post on the starter. The other is the crank wire coming from the ignition switch. It's a smaller wire that emerges from the harness underneath the plenum and terminates on a spade connector here, circled in yellow (not my pic, I stole it from 4Crawler):



The 8ga wire you're talking about should run from the relay to that spade connector on the starter.

 

[RAD4Runner]

Howdy,
thanks for this post. I'll spare you the details of how I got drafted into performing this surgery on my exGF's truck. This gonna be the "dumb guy" question of the day. I was with you until step D. The 8ga wire terminates at which post of the starter?
Thanks for your help.

What year-model is the truck? Does it have a starter relay or not? If it does not, then yes, do as KidV did it; add a relay. If it does have a relay, simply rewire the power side of relay contact directly to battery via a fused wire (20 amps).
Happy New Year

 

[Howitzer]

Great writeup!! Thank yo for the info. Only one question, though; I know older ford relays were able to be "hotwired" by jumping a couple of those terminals on the starter relay with a screwdriver or such (or so I am told). Would that also be the case here?

 

[KidVermicious]

You can get power to the starter if you jump the terminals, yeah. The ECU probably wants an "on" signal from the ignition to give spark and fuel though.

 

[Howitzer]

Very good point! Suppose I am stuck in the good ole carburation days

 

[gretsch]

Thanks gang.
The hardest part by a long shot was gathering parts. It's kinda amazing what isn't sold at stores anymore. KidV I really appreciate the photo and all. I guess I was just worried that basically a charge almost straight from the battery would cook something. Not the olive branch of peace I was looking for. But all went well and I hope to not have to pick anyone up in the middle of the night anymore.
Thanks RAD4 I spent a couple hours on friday to discover there is no starter relay. I followed the little wire all the way under the dash. I was cussing the whole way,"How can a car start without a starter relay?". Well, it has one now.



Why any car besides K.I.T.T. has a computer is beyond my grasp.

 

[hrt4me]

What year-model is the truck? Does it have a starter relay or not? If it does not, then yes, do as KidV did it; add a relay. If it does have a relay, simply rewire the power side of relay contact directly to battery via a fused wire (20 amps).

thanks for the good tip, I have to fix my own starter over the next few days...

 

[wshiverick]

So I've been having this issue for several months now, used to only happen every once in a while but recently pretty much every time. I'd been starting it with a wire from the starter to the battery. The other day my alternator went out. I replaced the brushes (the old ones were barely there any more) and now no more starter problems! Its only been 2 days but it's started every time since I fixed the alt, so perhaps if you are having this problem it might be time to check your brushes?

 

[RAD4Runner]

So I've been having this issue for several months now, used to only happen every once in a while but recently pretty much every time. I'd been starting it with a wire from the starter to the battery. The other day my alternator went out. I replaced the brushes (the old ones were barely there any more) and now no more starter problems! Its only been 2 days but it's started every time since I fixed the alt, so perhaps if you are having this problem it might be time to check your brushes?

The root cause of the "click-only" problem is not enough power to fully-actuate starter solenoid, preventing contacts from fully closing and making good connection.

A bad alternator is not the root cause of that problem -it would only expose it because you would have an anemic battery. A good alternator would not fix the problem-it would only mask it, because now you have a battery in better state of charge.

Still a good idea to check your schematic and actual wiring for the flaw I describe on my post.

 

[KidVermicious]

So I've been having this issue for several months now, used to only happen every once in a while but recently pretty much every time. I'd been starting it with a wire from the starter to the battery. The other day my alternator went out. I replaced the brushes (the old ones were barely there any more) and now no more starter problems! Its only been 2 days but it's started every time since I fixed the alt, so perhaps if you are having this problem it might be time to check your brushes?

If the wire between the starter and the battery was working, then your battery voltage was good. If your battery voltage was good, then your alternator was providing enough charge.

Like I said in the OP, any time I touched anything related to the starting or charger circuits, it would clear the trouble for a bit. I suspect you'll see your click-no-start condition come back.

 

[85straight]

Im afraid kidv and rad are correct....only a matter of time

 

[Black_TurboSR5]

I had the same issue, but not on my 4runner. It was on my CRX. Intermittent click no start, changed starter, relay, wires. A week would go by with out a problem then click no start for a few minutes, it was SO bad that I had a wire permanently attached to the starter solenoid, so I could touch the other end to the battery terminal and finally be able to start the car. Months later I solved the problem PERMANENTLY! I've had two other cars before where I was never able to solve the click no start syndrome before I eventually sold them. But I stumbled on the root issue of why OLD cars get the click no start issue, even with new wires and starters. I permanently solved this issue on my CRX (if the 4Runner get's it I'm sure it will fix it too)
My realization was that the ignition lock has the starter switch attached to it with little screws, and it's twisted into switching on and off by a metal flat tip (in most cases) coming from the ignition lock cylinder, and with no available adjustments. Well over time the holes where the little screws pass through the switch widen slightly, enough to where the twist action of the lock cylinder doesn't twist the ignition switch all the way to make good contact with the "start" pins.
What I did and has started my car every single time for the past year, is that I LOSSENED (with out taking them out, yet) the little screws that hold the switch to the back of the lock cylinder and manually twisted the switch against the direction of the turning key (it will only move a few millimeters at the most but that's all you need) , then tested that the car starter at once, it did. So I tightened one of the screws in place and took out the other one to apply thread locker to it then put it back in and did the same to the other. I put it all back together and it has worked for over a year now, starts every time.

I was at my wits end when I did this, it was SO annoying, that's why I wrote this long winded description, It might help some of you. If I find a 4runner at the junkyard I'll take the ignition switch apart and take pics to show in detail.

 

[RAD4Runner]

... I had a wire permanently attached to the starter solenoid, so I could touch the other end to the battery terminal and finally be able to start the car. Months later I solved the problem PERMANENTLY!

Good catch on the CRX. However, CRX ignition switch may be different from 4Runners.

Here is a proven fact:
Stock Toyota starting circuit wiring on 22R-E 86-88's IS BROKEN as I explain & fix here
; I haven't seen any exception. IT IS DOCUMENTED BY TOYOTA ON ITS SCHEMATIC ITSELF.

1) IF jumping the starter solenoid like you describe ^^ (my special tool here) permanently fixes the problem on an 86-88 22R-E, I say, 99.9% probability above fix will help. Even if it were the solenoid contacts that is the issue, doing fix above is fixing what's supposed to be fixed a wiring schem that is broken.

2) IF jumping the starter solenoid permanently fixes the problem on 85 and earlier engines, it is because those starting systems do not have a starter relay. I strongly recommended you add starter relay like KidV did.

 

[wallytoo]

in addition to the wiring/relay fix, the click no-start can also be caused by the internal contacts of the solenoid itself. my wife's '97 corolla has the same starter as my '87 4runner (with a different tooth count). the internal plunger contacts were worn down enough that they didn't always make contact enough to activate the plunger to engage the starter.

although a pain in the ass to access on a corolla, the repair of the solenoid itself is very easy. the contacts/plunger are readily available for replacing the worn out ones, and cost less than $40.00.

the nice thing about the 4runner is that the reduction starter/solenoid is readily accessible to facilitate the repair.

fwiw, i rewired/fixed the factory f*-up on my '87 using RAD's info, so that the relay is actually used correctly, and all the current doesn't pass through the key switch contacts.

 

[RAD4Runner]

in addition to the wiring/relay fix, the click no-start can also be caused by the internal contacts of the solenoid itself. my wife's '97 corolla has the same starter as my '87 4runner (with a different tooth count). the internal plunger contacts were worn down enough that they didn't always make contact enough to activate the plunger to engage the starter.

although a pain in the ass to access on a corolla, the repair of the solenoid itself is very easy. the contacts/plunger are readily available for replacing the worn out ones, and cost less than $40.00.

the nice thing about the 4runner is that the reduction starter/solenoid is readily accessible to facilitate the repair.

fwiw, i rewired/fixed the factory f*-up on my '87 using RAD's info, so that the relay is actually used correctly, and all the current doesn't pass through the key switch contacts.

Concur. Another possible cause of no start is bad solenoid contact.

 

[Night_Wolf84]

in addition to the wiring/relay fix, the click no-start can also be caused by the internal contacts of the solenoid itself. my wife's '97 corolla has the same starter as my '87 4runner (with a different tooth count). the internal plunger contacts were worn down enough that they didn't always make contact enough to activate the plunger to engage the starter.

although a pain in the ass to access on a corolla, the repair of the solenoid itself is very easy. the contacts/plunger are readily available for replacing the worn out ones, and cost less than $40.00.

I agree as well. I already did the relay fix last year when it was still warm and it just happened tonight that my Runner left me stranded in a McDonalds drive thru. I shut the truck off so the people inside could hear me clearly, went to crank it and...*click*.....*click click*

After checking all the main battery cables and such, still nothing. My mother picked me up and took me home.
After about an hour of calming down, went back with my dad. As I was turning the key over, my dad pounded the solenoid with an ice scraper. It took a little while, but it fired up.
I've bought the parts, just haven't took the time to replaced the contacts and plunger in the starter yet.

 

[zooroadbaja]

Rebumping...

A little confused on what to do here. Can I use a 30a relay like pictured and if so what wires go to what? And what wire do I run the inline fuse on?

Also I have an 89 PU which I believe has the relay already. So do I need to do what's mentioned above? Or do I just bypass the factory relay with an inline fuse?