Final Questions Before New Suspension Gets Ordered

[bigbillyt]

So, I have researched for a long time and I am finally ready to move forward to get my ride lifted. MY T4R is 95 percent daily driver with occasional trail use, nothing too serious.

My criteria:
1. Decent ride on road: I like the stock suspension but it could be a little tighter. Would love to have less nose dive and body roll.
2. Quiet: I hope to not have any clunks, bangs or squeaks introduced by the new suspension.
3. Reliability: I hope to not have to replace or perform major maintenance on the new system for at least 40k-50k miles.
4. The ability to comfortably run larger 32-33 inch tires.
5. Leave the truck with its current stance which I believe is pretty much level, with a possible very slight forward rake.
6. I may some day in the future want to add a Shrockworks front bumper and possibly a winch.

My proposed suspension:
1. Bilstein 6112 C/O on the front
2. Bilstein 5160 remote res on the rear
3. Dif drop for the front
4. Toytec Superflex Coils on the rear
5. Toytec bump stops on the rear

My questions for the experts here, and yes I have searched and read many threads and I am still not 100% sure I understand the answer to these finer points.

1. To get a level vehicle front to back, what is the likely setting I need on the 6112s? Per Toytec's site I was thinking the 2.5 inch setting would be about right, but there is some conflicting information on threads here regarding the settings on those C/Os.
2. If I have Toytec pre-set the 6112s to a specific height setting, how hard is it to change that setting once they are on the vehicle?
3. Are the Toytec Superflex coils for the rear a good choice with the 5160s as far as lift height and ride quality? If not, what is a better choice?
4. Do I need to do the diff drop in the front with this setup?
5. Do I absolutely need to change out the stock UCAs?
6. If I do change the UCA's which would be better for my needs the Icon tubular uniball or one of the Dirt King versions?
7. Are the Toytec bump stops useful for my application?
8. If I go with the 2.5 inch setting should I be able to run the BFG AT KO2s in the 285/70R17 size without rubbing or should I consider 275/70R17s to be on the safe side?
9. If I add a heavier front bumper, and possibly a winch, in the future, is it as simple as then notching up the coilovers to the highest setting? Or will I need to change out the actual springs to a heavier spring?

Thanks in advance for any help. I am particularly interested in insights from others who are running the same or a similar setup.

 

[Cymon]

I can answer #2 the rest you likely want people running the setup. You will have to remove the shock and reseat the clip (likely using a spring compressor unles you like to live dangerously or really know what you are doing). This is the main difference between this and the Toytec "Boss" coilover, which you can adjust with one of thier spanner wrenches.

Edit: sorry for the purple frown face at the top...don't know how that happened...lol!

 

[eblamble3]

So, I have researched for a long time and I am finally ready to move forward to get my ride lifted. MY T4R is 95 percent daily driver with occasional trail use, nothing too serious.

My criteria:
1. Decent ride on road: I like the stock suspension but it could be a little tighter. Would love to have less nose dive and body roll.
2. Quiet: I hope to not have any clunks, bangs or squeaks introduced by the new suspension.
3. Reliability: I hope to not have to replace or perform major maintenance on the new system for at least 40k-50k miles.
4. The ability to comfortably run larger 32-33 inch tires.
5. Leave the truck with its current stance which I believe is pretty much level, with a possible very slight forward rake.
6. I may some day in the future want to add a Shrockworks front bumper and possibly a winch.

My proposed suspension:
1. Bilstein 6112 C/O on the front
2. Bilstein 5160 remote res on the rear
3. Dif drop for the front
4. Toytec Superflex Coils on the rear
5. Toytec bump stops on the rear

My questions for the experts here, and yes I have searched and read many threads and I am still not 100% sure I understand the answer to these finer points.

1. To get a level vehicle front to back, what is the likely setting I need on the 6112s? Per Toytec's site I was thinking the 2.5 inch setting would be about right, but there is some conflicting information on threads here regarding the settings on those C/Os.
2. If I have Toytec pre-set the 6112s to a specific height setting, how hard is it to change that setting once they are on the vehicle?
3. Are the Toytec Superflex coils for the rear a good choice with the 5160s as far as lift height and ride quality? If not, what is a better choice?
4. Do I need to do the diff drop in the front with this setup?
5. Do I absolutely need to change out the stock UCAs?
6. If I do change the UCA's which would be better for my needs the Icon tubular uniball or one of the Dirt King versions?
7. Are the Toytec bump stops useful for my application?
8. If I go with the 2.5 inch setting should I be able to run the BFG AT KO2s in the 285/70R17 size without rubbing or should I consider 275/70R17s to be on the safe side?
9. If I add a heavier front bumper, and possibly a winch, in the future, is it as simple as then notching up the coilovers to the highest setting? Or will I need to change out the actual springs to a heavier spring?

Thanks in advance for any help. I am particularly interested in insights from others who are running the same or a similar setup.

So if you go to the +2 clip on the 6112 (labeled as 1.25" lift) you will get about 2" lift and be essentially perfectly level front to back assuming you keep the stock springs in the rear. If you added the superflex springs in the rear you should maintain the same amount of rake as stock (assuming those lift you 2" in the rear). I ended up adding a 1" spacer to the stock springs in the rear to give me a little rake back. I did not need aftermarket UCA's for this setting and it aligned alright. I am not running the diff drop or any modified bump stops and I have no issues. I am still running stock size tires so I can't comment on that.

Generally what I have seen on here is 2" to 2.5" lift in front is about the max you can do on the stock UCA's and still have caster come in decent on alignment. Also from what I have seen the diff drop is not necessary until you get up to 3" lift in front.

 

[cjacob316]

1. To get a level vehicle front to back, what is the likely setting I need on the 6112s? Per Toytec's site I was thinking the 2.5 inch setting would be about right, but there is some conflicting information on threads here regarding the settings on those C/Os.

The rear is about 2 inches higher than the front to allow for weight in the cargo area. At 2.5 you will be nose high with an empty rear.

2. If I have Toytec pre-set the 6112s to a specific height setting, how hard is it to change that setting once they are on the vehicle?

you have to disassemble these to adjust the setting. Threaded coils can be adjusted while mounted

3. Are the Toytec Superflex coils for the rear a good choice with the 5160s as far as lift height and ride quality? If not, what is a better choice?

Yes

4. Do I need to do the diff drop in the front with this setup?

I wouldn't

5. Do I absolutely need to change out the stock UCAs?

no, it will depend on how close to spec you can get the allignment, and how comfortable you feel driving it after.

6. If I do change the UCA's which would be better for my needs the Icon tubular uniball or one of the Dirt King versions?

Any would work honestly, simpler is better, ball joints are cheaper.

7. Are the Toytec bump stops useful for my application?

Yes, more than a diff drop imo.

8. If I go with the 2.5 inch setting should I be able to run the BFG AT KO2s in the 285/70R17 size without rubbing or should I consider 275/70R17s to be on the safe side?

As with most tire fitment issues, ymmv

9. If I add a heavier front bumper, and possibly a winch, in the future, is it as simple as then notching up the coilovers to the highest setting? Or will I need to change out the actual springs to a heavier spring?

I'll pick the safe answer here and also say ymmv. I don't know if there is another spring options for those shocks though.

 

[1engineer]

No matter what anyone says or what you do bigger tires might rub. There is no way to know until you do it and if it rubs you fix it.

 

[bigbillyt]

You stated "The rear is about 2 inches higher than the front to allow for weight in the cargo area. At 2.5 you will be nose high with an empty rear."

That is confusing, is the rear or the nose going to end up higher with the 2.5" setting in the front? If I need to have them set it lower to be level, how much lower? The say they can set them to .5", 1.25", 2", 2.5" or 3" of lift.

 

[wfo9]

I'm being a bit sloppy here...

but here goes some opinions...

- You don't need or want the the diff drop.
- You don't need the bump stops with that setup (unless the shocks will bottom out before the stock bump stops- which is super rare unless you are doing a long travel setup)
- You should get a real coil over if you want things perfectly level...
- you can get by with the stock UCAs for a while, but most people want more caster and eventually end up with aftermarket UCAs
- a plate bumper and winch will most likely require new heavier springs up front for a decent ride (it can work with regular springs.. but it will not be great). If you go too heavy without the bumper and winch it will be way too stiff.
- lift and tire fitment are somewhat unrelated. Tire fitment is a function of wheel and tire + alignment. Ride height clearance does not mean no rubbing. 285s should clear pretty easy.

No cake and eat it too with any of this stuff. Everyone tries, but it is simply not possible.

 

[bigbillyt]

From everyone's input it sounds like I am not going to be completely happy with the 6112 C/Os. I am pretty picky about things like the vehicle being level front to back and left to right. I think I will up my budget a bit and spring for the Toytec Boss kit. Being able to individually adjust the ride height without having to disassemble everything is very attractive.

After doing some more research here and on a few other forums I am now leaning toward the SPC LR UCAs. It seems they are very adjustable and should be durable enough for my light usage.

 

[sandcrawler]

From everyone's input it sounds like I am not going to be completely happy with the 6112 C/Os. I am pretty picky about things like the vehicle being level front to back and left to right. I think I will up my budget a bit and spring for the Toytec Boss kit. Being able to individually adjust the ride height without having to disassemble everything is very attractive.

After doing some more research here and on a few other forums I am now leaning toward the SPC LR UCAs. It seems they are very adjustable and should be durable enough for my light usage.

i'd suggest a little more research on the LR UCAs; a disturbing number of failures have been documented here and elsewhere.

i know folks have said SPC has backed them up, but the constant churn of bushing updates and redesigns and cracked welds is super sketch to me. i also think their adjustability is just another potential pitfall when it's already difficult to find a decent, thorough alignment tech without that added complication.

i'd up your budget a bit again and get a quality set of Camburg, ICON, or Total Chaos UCAs. do it right the first time. welcome to the suspension upgrade treadmill.

just my 2¢

 

[cutty01]

I am going to join the band wagon with my .02c to reinforce what some others have said and to hopefully give you additional information to make your choice.

However, before I offer my opinion let me go in a slight tangent up front - Why did you select 6112/5160s? Don't get me wrong, I have that exact same setup (along with SAW 1.5" coils) and I love it. However you said you want something that is 95% daily driver and occasional offroad with nothing serious. Why not the 5100s all the way around? Seems like it will suit your requirements (lift, improve nose dive, better offroad, reliable) at a much lower cost.

If your mind is made up:

1. To get a level vehicle front to back, what is the likely setting I need on the 6112s? Per Toytec's site I was thinking the 2.5 inch setting would be about right, but there is some conflicting information on threads here regarding the settings on those C/Os.

If you leave the rear at stock height, I think 2.5 is way too high for the front if you are keeping the rear coils stock. As stated above, the conflicting information is that the notch settings give you a higher lift in reality because of the angle of the shock mount points compared to where most people take measurements (ground to fender). There is a post on here somewhere that explains the Trigonometry. I set my 6112 at 2" and added 1.5" rear coils and I have a slight forward rake. That way when I have cargo, I am not drooping in the rear.

BTW the 6112 can only be set at 2.5" at their highest setting.

2. If I have Toytec pre-set the 6112s to a specific height setting, how hard is it to change that setting once they are on the vehicle?

Repeat from an answer you got above - you have to disassemble and move the retaining clip. You can not adjust like some others using just a shock spanner.

3. Are the Toytec Superflex coils for the rear a good choice with the 5160s as far as lift height and ride quality? If not, what is a better choice?

Yes but they are 2". Keep that in mind when you set your front. Other good choices are the ICON 2" or Saw-a-way 1.5".

4. Do I need to do the diff drop in the front with this setup?

Usually only reserved for >=3" lifts so there is less wear and tear on your CV joints.

5. Do I absolutely need to change out the stock UCAs?

Not for <3", but if you are running 285s then it you may need the increased alignment range that aftermarket UCAs may offer you (as well as a body mount chop). I have 275s with no rubbing on stock UCAs.

6. If I do change the UCA's which would be better for my needs the Icon tubular uniball or one of the Dirt King versions?

No opinion, other than I heard that some uniballs UCAs can get get noisy after dirt and grit get in there. Remember you want a daily driver.

7. Are the Toytec bump stops useful for my application?

Probably, but not necessary.

8. If I go with the 2.5 inch setting should I be able to run the BFG AT KO2s in the 285/70R17 size without rubbing or should I consider 275/70R17s to be on the safe side?

275/70/17 is generally safe, but as stated above every application is different and depends on the alignment. Worst case is that you may have to do a slight modification to your front fender lining which is a lot easier to do than a body mount chop with 285s. I have seen some posts where they say they even squeezed in 285s w/o major chop but the tire fitment guide recommends otherwise.

9. If I add a heavier front bumper, and possibly a winch, in the future, is it as simple as then notching up the coilovers to the highest setting? Or will I need to change out the actual springs to a heavier spring?

I set my 6112 to 2" so I have that last setting at 2.5" for when I get something heavier for the front. If you know you will get a heavy front bumper and winch, you may want to consider a stiffer spring up front and go with a different setup. Again you say you have a daily driver so do you think you will get a heavier bumper and winch soon?. You can always get a stiffer spring later if you really are going to get all that stuff.

 

[Rbreezy]

I have the 6112s up front set at the 5th notch and Toytec rcc 2.0 HD coils in the rear to level out when I haul my camping gear. I also did the diff drop up front and a pair of total chaos UCAs and got my alignment well within spec easily. I didn't do the bump stops and haven't had any issues maxing out the rear shocks (trdpro bilsteins) hope this pic helps in case you decide to go up to the 5th clip.

 

[bigbillyt]

That looks awesome, can I fly over and take a ride? Seriously though, how is the ride quality compared to stock?

 

[Rbreezy]

That looks awesome, can I fly over and take a ride? Seriously though, how is the ride quality compared to stock?

Comparing it to the oem TRD pro system which is supposedly softer than the sr5 spring rates it feels much better in my opinion. The nose dive is less noticeable and the 6112s soak up bumps pretty good offroad. The wife drives it daily and she's a happy camper now that the nose dive and bad swaying has decreased significantly. Off road it offers pretty good flex. I've taken it off some pretty good drops without hitting bump stops so that's a good sign.

 

[TotalAutomotiveLV]

My criteria:
1. Decent ride on road: I like the stock suspension but it could be a little tighter. Would love to have less nose dive and body roll.
You will love the improvements the 6112 setup makes then.

2. Quiet: I hope to not have any clunks, bangs or squeaks introduced by the new suspension.
Keep it clean, keep stock control arms if you can.

3. Reliability: I hope to not have to replace or perform major maintenance on the new system for at least 40k-50k miles.
Non-issue unless you drive like Robby Gordon

4. The ability to comfortably run larger 32-33 inch tires.
No problem

5. Leave the truck with its current stance which I believe is pretty much level, with a possible very slight forward rake.
The rear is about 2" higher so consider that when building your kit.

6. I may some day in the future want to add a Shrockworks front bumper and possibly a winch.
Watch out, once you had the mod-bug you will be addicted.

My proposed suspension:
1. Bilstein 6112 C/O on the front
2. Bilstein 5160 remote res on the rear
3. Dif drop for the front
4. Toytec Superflex Coils on the rear
5. Toytec bump stops on the rear

This kit works great - proven

My questions for the experts here, and yes I have searched and read many threads and I am still not 100% sure I understand the answer to these finer points.

1. To get a level vehicle front to back, what is the likely setting I need on the 6112s? Per Toytec's site I was thinking the 2.5 inch setting would be about right, but there is some conflicting information on threads here regarding the settings on those C/Os.

The rear is 2" higher from the factory give or take .25".

2. If I have Toytec pre-set the 6112s to a specific height setting, how hard is it to change that setting once they are on the vehicle?

Must remove from vehicle and use spring compressor to adjust.

3. Are the Toytec Superflex coils for the rear a good choice with the 5160s as far as lift height and ride quality? If not, what is a better choice?

ICON coils ride a little better than the Toytec, but both are great options.

4. Do I need to do the diff drop in the front with this setup?
No.

5. Do I absolutely need to change out the stock UCAs?
No.

6. If I do change the UCA's which would be better for my needs the Icon tubular uniball or one of the Dirt King versions?

From worst quality/performance to best.
SPC
Camburg Balljoint
Procomp
Camburg - ICON - Total Chaos tubular arms
Dirt King Bushing
Chaos Heim
Rokmen
Dirt King Heim
ICON Billet

7. Are the Toytec bump stops useful for my application?
Unneeded in this setup, but not a bad extra to add.

8. If I go with the 2.5 inch setting should I be able to run the BFG AT KO2s in the 285/70R17 size without rubbing or should I consider 275/70R17s to be on the safe side?
Yes, 285s will work. Stock wheels?


9. If I add a heavier front bumper, and possibly a winch, in the future, is it as simple as then notching up the coilovers to the highest setting? Or will I need to change out the actual springs to a heavier spring?
For every 200# we suggest upping the spring rate 50#. You can make minor adjustments with the preload.

Thanks in advance for any help. I am particularly interested in insights from others who are running the same or a similar setup.





Total Automotive Performance has these in stock - we did a lot of the development and introduced the 6112 to the market so we can answer any questions you may still have.

If we can be of any assistance, please give us a call at 702.979.1577 or email us at [email protected]

 

[Tosspilot]

I am considering the same setup but called Bilstein about the 6112 for a 2016 trail and they indicated that the product only fits 2015 and earlier. I did not think there was any change in 2016?

Also, would the 5125 be ok vs the 5160 to avoid reservoir install? Any impact to ride height?

I see the 5125 has different lengths. I will be setting the 6112 at the 2" setting using the sway away 1.5" rear coil.

Thanks

 

[Jasalvas]

I am considering the same setup but called Bilstein about the 6112 for a 2016 trail and they indicated that the product only fits 2015 and earlier. I did not think there was any change in 2016?



Also, would the 5125 be ok vs the 5160 to avoid reservoir install? Any impact to ride height?



Thanks

I have 6112's and 5160's on my '16 Trail. No ah problemos.

Talk to the guys @totalautomotive, they'll take good care of you!


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[Jasalvas]

3. Are the Toytec Superflex coils for the rear a good choice with the 5160s as far as lift height and ride quality? If not, what is a better choice?[/B]



ICON coils ride a little better than the Toytec, but both are great options.



[/B]

I agree. I haven't experienced the Toytech but have the icon.
I first installed the 6112's on the 4th notch with OEM rear coils. Reverse rake and the truck just didn't feel right. Hated driving the rig for like two weeks until I installed Icon 2" rear coils.
After the install there was SUCH a noticeable difference. Ride was tight and sat properly. The springs on the c/o are fairly stiff (my opinion) vs stock. The Icon 2" rears match them well. Also, I like the idea of Eibach springs in the front and rear.



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[Tosspilot]

Thank you for the reply confirming compatibility on the 2016. After going to the local shop I ended up ordering the 6112 set at 2" for the front and the 5100 for the rear. Also went with the Icon 2" rear coil and the 1" front diff drop.

Based on the info I read I am hoping it will work out well. Also doing a new set of AT tires.

After a few years of family duty I will get to turn it into my dedicated adventure ride.

 

[wfo9]

I don't understand the recommendation on the diff drop kit. It does not really drop the diff, just angles it. More potential problems than benefit IMHO.

 

[LandCruiser]

The hybrid Toytec systems that come with the Eibach springs and Bilsteins give the best on-road ride.

I had sag issues with my front and and had to readjust them, and install a spacer to even things out.