First 5 months with 13 LE

[coolslice]

I just wanted to throw out my .02 about my Limited T4R after a few months, or more directly, the things I don't like. These are just my opinions.

Keep in mind, I have had 2 other previous gen T4R's, and 2 Toyota trucks. I took a 9 year break with a Dodge diesel prior to my new LE.

First of all, the engine is very weak for having 270hp. I have no issues with the engine when just driving normally, however, if I hook up my small trailer with 1 ATV, or my 18 foot boat, the engine really sucks wind. It's acceptable with the boat, because it is a significant amount of weight, but the ATV trailer is another story. I would never guess that such a light trailer would make such a big difference.

Mileage- I think it is acceptable under normal driving for the type of vehicle with full-time 4wd. However, just like my Tacoma, if you hook ANY weight to it, my mileage drops well into the big V8 range, if not lower. I used half a tank to pull my ATV approx 80 miles last weekend. That is ridiculous IMO. My Tacoma would drop into the 10-12 mpg range with a small jon boat, and I think I'm lucky to get 12-14 mpg with ANYTHING behind me in the T4R. I don't understand why there is such a dramatic drop in MPG? I expect some, but I think 5 mpg with a small trailer and ATV is embarrassing.

I hate the transmission program (for lack of a better word). I assume this was done for gas mileage, but I really hate when instead of dropping a gear or maintaining the gear to increase speed, it shifts up a gear. I have an on ramp that is a slight grade I travel daily. As I go to merge, the truck just falls flat and the RPM's stay in the 1500 range when it should downshift. It could be dangerous in the perfect situation. This is with ECO mode off.

Another quirk that I have not researched yet, but really irks me is that the radio automatically connects to my Iphone/ipod without input nearly every time I'm in the vehicle. I will switch back to satellite, and the ipod will come back on again. I "disconnected for music" in the setting, but it still happens.

The brakes- it's not that they are bad, but there is too much play in the pedal. It seems as if I have at least 2" of play before there is ANY engagement. The brakes are fine otherwise, and there are no issues stopping when pulling my boat.

The windows- this is minor, but still annoying. Every morning, there is dew on the roof. I like to drive to work with my windows down. The first turn I take, the water from the roof literally POURS in the cab, and right on the window switch. That seems like something that Toyota should have caught, but they didn't. I have ordered some aftermarket window deflectors, so I hope that helps.


All in all, I like it. I don't know if I'd buy it again, but that is because of my personal needs, not so much a slight on the T4R. It is much heavier on the "sport" aspect than it is on the "utility" aspect. I think we are in an age where V8's, with advancements and proper transmissions are more efficient than the aging V6's. There are V8's out that there are much more efficient and powerful than the Toyota V6. I'm going to reassess my ownership status next year, but I'm going to give the T4R a fair chance.

 

[Jayhawk5G]

I just wanted to throw out my .02 about my Limited T4R after a few months, or more directly, the things I don't like. These are just my opinions.

Keep in mind, I have had 2 other previous gen T4R's, and 2 Toyota trucks. I took a 9 year break with a Dodge diesel prior to my new LE.

First of all, the engine is very weak for having 270hp. I have no issues with the engine when just driving normally, however, if I hook up my small trailer with 1 ATV, or my 18 foot boat, the engine really sucks wind. It's acceptable with the boat, because it is a significant amount of weight, but the ATV trailer is another story. I would never guess that such a light trailer would make such a big difference.

Mileage- I think it is acceptable under normal driving for the type of vehicle with full-time 4wd. However, just like my Tacoma, if you hook ANY weight to it, my mileage drops well into the big V8 range, if not lower. I used half a tank to pull my ATV approx 80 miles last weekend. That is ridiculous IMO. My Tacoma would drop into the 10-12 mpg range with a small jon boat, and I think I'm lucky to get 12-14 mpg with ANYTHING behind me in the T4R. I don't understand why there is such a dramatic drop in MPG? I expect some, but I think 5 mpg with a small trailer and ATV is embarrassing.

I hate the transmission program (for lack of a better word). I assume this was done for gas mileage, but I really hate when instead of dropping a gear or maintaining the gear to increase speed, it shifts up a gear. I have an on ramp that is a slight grade I travel daily. As I go to merge, the truck just falls flat and the RPM's stay in the 1500 range when it should downshift. It could be dangerous in the perfect situation. This is with ECO mode off.

Another quirk that I have not researched yet, but really irks me is that the radio automatically connects to my Iphone/ipod without input nearly every time I'm in the vehicle. I will switch back to satellite, and the ipod will come back on again. I "disconnected for music" in the setting, but it still happens.

The brakes- it's not that they are bad, but there is too much play in the pedal. It seems as if I have at least 2" of play before there is ANY engagement. The brakes are fine otherwise, and there are no issues stopping when pulling my boat.

The windows- this is minor, but still annoying. Every morning, there is dew on the roof. I like to drive to work with my windows down. The first turn I take, the water from the roof literally POURS in the cab, and right on the window switch. That seems like something that Toyota should have caught, but they didn't. I have ordered some aftermarket window deflectors, so I hope that helps.


All in all, I like it. I don't know if I'd buy it again, but that is because of my personal needs, not so much a slight on the T4R. It is much heavier on the "sport" aspect than it is on the "utility" aspect. I think we are in an age where V8's, with advancements and proper transmissions are more efficient than the aging V6's. There are V8's out that there are much more efficient and powerful than the Toyota V6. I'm going to reassess my ownership status next year, but I'm going to give the T4R a fair chance.

While I would love to have a V8 option, it certainly isn't because I think it would provide better mileage. The Hemi Jeeps are in the low teens in city driving and I don't think I ever broke 20 mpg on the highway. Do they offer better towing capability sure, however I recently towed 3,000 lbs. worth of sport boat and trailer and I still managed 18 highway which never happened in my V8 Jeep.

I'm sure others will chime in but I agree about the transmission programing. My wife just brought home a new Rav4 and it has a "sport" and "eco" button and they work surprisingly well. When "eco" is on, the vehicle responds noticeably slower and you can tell the transmission/throttle are attempting to return higher mpg. When "sport" is pressed, the throttle responds much faster and the shifts are more about acceleration. This would be a perfect compromise for the T4R and would probably help most people get past not having a V8.

 

[lezavw90]

"Eco" does nothing, turning it off only turns the dash light off.

 

[LandCruiser]

My problem with my two 5th gens is this:

The transmission is sloppy and sluggish and the engine doesn't feel like 270 hp. Part of it has to do with the fact that the truck is heavy, but it's mostly because they're obsessed with gas mileage.

Gas mileage is going to suck if you have tame transmission settings because you're more likely to flog it when you don't get the results you want, so gas mileage winds up being even worse, unless you drive like granny.

I've found with GM vehicles of similar GVWR, more powerful V8s (or V6 vs V8) the trucks usually get virtually identical gas mileage, but the more powerful variants get better performance. My 6L Sierra 2500 got the same gas mileage as a 1500 with the 4.8L. The fallacy of a smaller engine in a heavy pig of a vehicle is that it gives you better gas mileage, in many cases it just means the engine will struggle more.

 

[PricklyPete]

I've only had my LE for less than a month and I would agree that the engine is under powered. Of course I live a mile high and regularly double that on drives up into the mtns every weekend...so most NA engines are going to suck a little wind.

I probably would have gone with a V8 or a supercharged option if there was one. Coming from a forced induction car that just are up the mtns, the T4R does feel very sluggish. That and the ridiculous wagon wheels are my only two complaints.

 

[mdogg]

My problem with my two 5th gens is this:

The transmission is sloppy and sluggish and the engine doesn't feel like 270 hp. Part of it has to do with the fact that the truck is heavy, but it's mostly because they're obsessed with gas mileage.

Gas mileage is going to suck if you have tame transmission settings because you're more likely to flog it when you don't get the results you want, so gas mileage winds up being even worse, unless you drive like granny.

I've found with GM vehicles of similar GVWR, more powerful V8s (or V6 vs V8) the trucks usually get virtually identical gas mileage, but the more powerful variants get better performance. My 6L Sierra 2500 got the same gas mileage as a 1500 with the 4.8L. The fallacy of a smaller engine in a heavy pig of a vehicle is that it gives you better gas mileage, in many cases it just means the engine will struggle more.

reminds me of the Top Gear episode when they go all out with a Prius around a track and match with an M3 at a leisurely pace - all to compare the mileage at the end

 

[1engineer]

Notice how most of these threads are by owners that had big diesels or sports cars or V8's right before trading for a 4Runner. I have never read about anyone coming from a Toyota Corolla or Honda Civic or even a Tacoma or Xterra saying "Man, this thing has no power and when you tow with it it only gets 12 mpg." Jeez test drive maybe? Buyer's remorse because they are comparing apples and oranges.

 

[LandCruiser]

Notice how most of these threads are by owners that had big diesels or sports cars or V8's right before trading for a 4Runner. I have never read about anyone coming from a Toyota Corolla or Honda Civic or even a Tacoma or Xterra saying "Man, this thing has no power and when you tow with it it only gets 12 mpg." Jeez test drive maybe? Buyer's remorse because they are comparing apples and oranges.

While I totally agree, improving how the transmission shifts could do wonders to change how the trucks behave.

My only other experience with this engine was the detuned version on my FJ Cruiser, with 6MT. That thing was plenty quick despite having less hp and torque (weight savings did make up for some of that, tho), making me think a lot of it has to do with transmission choice/programming.

 

[scanny]

I don't tow of course maybe that's why I think power is adequate. In the matter of fact I like that my 5th gen is tuned for fuel economy, most of the time it's the best setting for everyday driving. But when I need jump ahead of everybody on a green light or merge in a highway traffic - pedal to the floor provides pretty quick acceleration, more than enough to cut in the fast traffic without slowing anybody down. Also I like the fact that I don't feel performance hit when I got canoe strapped on top, bike on hitch and stuff in trunk.
I have my truck for 3 years now, I have some complains of course, but none of them about power ; )

 

[1engineer]

While I totally agree, improving how the transmission shifts could do wonders to change how the trucks behave.

My only other experience with this engine was the detuned version on my FJ Cruiser, with 6MT. That thing was plenty quick despite having less hp and torque (weight savings did make up for some of that, tho), making me think a lot of it has to do with transmission choice/programming.

It absolutely does. What most people tend to forget is our vehicles have a "sport" mode that takes all that away and lets you, the driver determine the shifts. If you want to be impressed, put it in sport mode at a stoplight, floor it when it turns green and shift at near red line. They will be impressed because this thing can hurry if pushed.

When towing, continue to use sport mode only don't go to 5th gear. Makes a world of difference. Power is just in a different place than with a diesel or V8.

 

[philsey]

. Power is just in a different place than with a diesel or V8.

This, exactly. I'm continually amazed by (all) these threads complaining about performance. Pre-purchase specs are readily available (4.0L @ 270hp/278tq), as is weight, 0-60 times, and tow capy, including test drives.

As Greg says; it's there - you just have to learn how to drive it. This thing actually can go like stink, you just have to kick it and not be afraid to let it rev.

 

[cbreze]

Plus one for "sport mode". I generally leave it in "4" around town and I've gotten so used to using this feature of the tranny that I seldom have it in auto anymore. I agree that if you manually shift it does get up and go with no trouble. It's always been my experience with automatics that they can be dogs. I've driven manual stick trannys all my life and wouldn't have even gotten the 4runner if it did not have the sport mode feature. Ha, I even find myself revving it as I shift down to make for a smoother transition. This harkens back to my stick shifting manual clutch days for sure.

 

[lezavw90]

People buy horsepower but drive torque. Can't remember where I heard that saying, but its so true.

 

[typehxr1]

We have had ours for roughly 5 months now as well. I bought it for looks and reliability and because it is one of the few SUVs out there that doesn't look like our has been converted into a crossover. I have lots of love for it. That said, my gripes:
-a 5-speed transmission... Give me a break
-a $45k limited with no cooled seats or seat memory... Asinine! I could be wrong but I think that limited Highlanders come more well equipped.
-hate that the range when full is less than 350 miles.

Despite all of this, 2 weeks ago, I bought a used 2006 SR5 V8 with 114k miles. So.....

There is nothing practical about owning a 4Runner for the price unless it fulfills your ego, desires, the need to drive a manly non-American SUV, and you don't mind paying for it.

 

[2013Trail]

Notice how most of these threads are by owners that had big diesels or sports cars or V8's right before trading for a 4Runner. I have never read about anyone coming from a Toyota Corolla or Honda Civic or even a Tacoma or Xterra saying "Man, this thing has no power and when you tow with it it only gets 12 mpg." Jeez test drive maybe? Buyer's remorse because they are comparing apples and oranges.

I've had enough of this so I'm calling you out 1engineer--you and anyone else who acts like you do. And I'm making this public:

Why do you jump down someone's throat almost every time they say something negative about their 5th Gen 4R? Why do you feel that almost everyone's complaints are petty or have no merit? Why do you feel the need to make condescending statements? This is a Toyota 4Runner forum. It would be ridiculous and totally unbelievable if everything everyone said about the 4R was positive. I guess you need a TSB or recall for any complaints to be valid, right?

I challenge you to go on any vehicle website, and find me one, just one single website on which no one complaints about their vehicles. Show a little class and consideration. We're not idiots. We're not stupid. We're not overly picky. We may have different standards and expectations than you and a number of other attackers on this website, but our negatives are just as valid as your or anyone else's positives. And our opinions are often based on our life experiences with a number of vehicles--not just V-8s or diesels, or SUVs or luxury cars.

I've never seen so many hateful people on one website. So, go ahead, ban me or tell me to leave if I don't like it. You and your cronies need to back off.

 

[scanny]

There is nothing practical about owning a 4Runner for the price unless it fulfills your ego, desires, the need to drive a manly non-American SUV, and you don't mind paying for it.

Hmm... I haven't found yet in 40K price range another reliable SUV which can get me and my stuff in the places where a crossover can't go. To me
4Runner is as practical as it gets : )

 

[harper7]

I've had enough of this so I'm calling you out 1engineer--you and anyone else who acts like you do. And I'm making this public:

Why do you jump down someone's throat almost every time they say something negative about their 5th Gen 4R? Why do you feel that almost everyone's complaints are petty or have no merit? Why do you feel the need to make condescending statements? This is a Toyota 4Runner forum. It would be ridiculous and totally unbelievable if everything everyone said about the 4R was positive. I guess you need a TSB or recall for any complaints to be valid, right?

I challenge you to go on any vehicle website, and find me one, just one single website on which no one complaints about their vehicles. Show a little class and consideration. We're not idiots. We're not stupid. We're not overly picky. We may have different standards and expectations than you and a number of other attackers on this website, but our negatives are just as valid as your or anyone else's positives. And our opinions are often based on our life experiences with a number of vehicles--not just V-8s or diesels, or SUVs or luxury cars.

I've never seen so many hateful people on one website. So, go ahead, ban me or tell me to leave if I don't like it. You and your cronies need to back off.

That sounds like a threat!
You sound surprised there are Toyota 4Runner Enthusiast | Define Enthusiast at Dictionary.com on a Toyota 4Runner forum.

You really think we designed and built these trucks and that this is the freakin Toyota complaint dept.. They do have their own complaint dept you know!
You had a choice when you bought the vehicle and you also have the choice to sell it or trade it on something better out there if it suits you.

No they are not perfect,what vehicle is, but the vast majority of us have come together here to work for solutions for many of the minor problems and share our love and adventures with our 4Runners and will continue with or without you .

:rtfm:

 

[kowski49]

This thing actually can go like stink, you just have to kick it and not be afraid to let it rev.

Totally. Mash the $hit out of that pedal! Not 80% of the way down; 100%. Literally floor it and keep it pinned (might have to move your seat forward) and this sucker will scream (loud) and move.
45 to 70mph for the on ramp? Mash it
75-90mph to get around some jack wagon? Mash it

Philsey really nailed it: kick the freaking crap out of this truck to make it go fast, and have faith that you're not breaking it as the engine revs really high and really loud for as long as you keep that pedal pinned.

 

[Ol'Baditude]

Hmm... I haven't found yet in 40K price range another reliable SUV which can get me and my stuff in the places where a crossover can't go. To me
4Runner is as practical as it gets : )

Very well put. The 4Runner is, and pretty much always has been an exceptional value when it comes to SUV performance and reliability. I can't think of a time when ego or status ever came in to the picture for me. The town I live in you get passed by a vehicle worth twice or three times as much 10-20 times a day but I'd still take the Runner.
I've owned GM, Jeep, International and Honda Prior to my 2003 and subsequent 2011 4Runners and have considered none as much worth the money as my 4Runners.
That Scout was pretty cool though

 

[2013Trail]

harper7, I don't make threats over the Internet. If you want to discuss this further with me, I'll be happy to do it via PM. But I'm not going to ruin OPs thread. I just felt like I had to speak out.