First thread: Need help planning next round of mods. SUSPENSION

[Scharfschütze]

Hello all. I am new here but I have been around forums and modding cars (mostly BMWs) for quite a while.

I thought I would reach out to the community for some advice after conducting a lot of research and search function use (and waiting for it, 15s, c'mon!)

I have a '15 TEP. I plan to get the new ARB (heavy AF) bumper and winch set up early next year and I an pretty sure my OEM suspension with spacer lift isn't going to cut it. It rides fine now but thats about 200lb on the front of the rig. My truck looks good now but I think the front could even come up a tad as is. That bumper is going to make it sag and handle like crap. I also want to get the CBI rear bumper which is also pretty darn heavy, with drawers back there too. This will happen over the course of next year.

My rig is a DD/weekend overlander with say, a trip a month, lots of hwy and some offroading, possibly pretty challenging trails. I want to be pretty capable offroad if needed. It will see some moderate loads for longer trips. I have the Prinsu roofrack and may end up with an RTT soon.

I have my eye on the 6112/5160 kit from Bilstein lifts but I have a few questions:

https://bilsteinlifts.com/shop/toyo...lift-kit-2010-2015-toyota-4runner-fj-cruiser/

Is there a better option at this price point? I like the big shocks up front and remotes out back, thats more robust that toytec adjustables. I hear Icons are about on the same plane as these and many reports of issues, though many glowing reviews too. I could probably afford kings and TC UCAs but thats a big purchase. Not sure if its worth x2 the cost, unless they last twice as long?? Input there would be great.

Also, Bilstein says the lift is a 2.5" lift. I would like to net more like 3" after the ARB bumper is installed. Is it possible to run the same spacer I have now (revtech 1.5 i think) and set the Bilsteins acordingly to net me 3? (not sure if that's ridiculous or not.) I have no issue getting UCAs, my research tells me that is required for a decent alignment which I wont compromise on!

Thanks in advance fellas! I look forward to your input! :reddance:

Rig:

 

[The Waco Kid]

Howdy,

Could you give me a little more info of what you're currently running. I can see the spacer lift, but what shocks/springs? All stock, aside from the spacer?

If you've updated the front shocks and springs already, all you may need is a heavier spring up front. I wouldn't do anything to the rear until you've ordered your rear bumper or rtt. But even then, all you need is heavier springs if you've upgraded the shock already.

If you're dead set on the 6112/5160 lift, be aware that the 5160's are on back-order until late march. Doesn't matter who you order from because, Bilstein ships their shocks direct from their distribution center.

My current set up (installing today and tomorrow) is the 6112's up front, and ICON 2.0 rears. I don't have any weight up front, so I went with the springs that came with the 6112s. For the rear I have Wheelers T12s (should net around 2" in the rear) which are 10% stiffer. I've added Metal Tech's 2" rear bumpstop extentions due to the added height. I don't carry much weight, so a 10% increase should serve me well when I'm towing or carrying my biking gear.

I'll let someone else chime in on more specifics, but for simplicity's sake, I think Icon's stage 2 with their overland dual stage rear spring would probably fit your needs and not break the bank, but you get what you pay for. Kings are sweeeeeeeeet.

 

[NZDZRT]

Put JBA UCA's on your list for consideration...

Alignment comes in nice, they have the range of motion of uniballs, but the great feature of an easily serviceable BJ. And the price isn't crazy, IMO.

NZDZRT

 

[Jhalko]

A lot of focus on shocks, I think you should really start thinking more about springs. For example, I have a rear CBI with no swing out and had to upgrade from the SAW rear springs with a 12% increase in spring rate over stock to the Toytec Superflex HD (I have a fridge and other armor as well). Given that and your needs and usage I think you are going to need some pretty beefy springs for all that weight otherwise the best shocks in the world won't make it ride well.

 

[Scharfschütze]

Howdy,

Could you give me a little more info of what you're currently running. I can see the spacer lift, but what shocks/springs? All stock, aside from the spacer?

If you've updated the front shocks and springs already, all you may need is a heavier spring up front. I wouldn't do anything to the rear until you've ordered your rear bumper or rtt. But even then, all you need is heavier springs if you've upgraded the shock already.

If you're dead set on the 6112/5160 lift, be aware that the 5160's are on back-order until late march. Doesn't matter who you order from because, Bilstein ships their shocks direct from their distribution center.

My current set up (installing today and tomorrow) is the 6112's up front, and ICON 2.0 rears. I don't have any weight up front, so I went with the springs that came with the 6112s. For the rear I have Wheelers T12s (should net around 2" in the rear) which are 10% stiffer. I've added Metal Tech's 2" rear bumpstop extentions due to the added height. I don't carry much weight, so a 10% increase should serve me well when I'm towing or carrying my biking gear.

I'll let someone else chime in on more specifics, but for simplicity's sake, I think Icon's stage 2 with their overland dual stage rear spring would probably fit your needs and not break the bank, but you get what you pay for. Kings are sweeeeeeeeet.

Its all stock except the spacer, im pretty sure the dealership pops them on the TEs for "marketing reasons"

Didnt know that about the backorder, supposedly guys are having issues with them anyway.

Icon looks very sweet, might be the way, or just an OME medium setup at the time of bumper install.

Alignment comes in nice, they have the range of motion of uniballs, but the great feature of an easily serviceable BJ. And the price isn't crazy, IMO.

NZDZRT

Looks amazing, price seems right with Total Chaos though...

A lot of focus on shocks, I think you should really start thinking more about springs. For example, I have a rear CBI with no swing out and had to upgrade from the SAW rear springs with a 12% increase in spring rate over stock to the Toytec Superflex HD (I have a fridge and other armor as well). Given that and your needs and usage I think you are going to need some pretty beefy springs for all that weight otherwise the best shocks in the world won't make it ride well.

You are right, I linked a kit above with springs but I read just now they are proabably 550-600lb. Should be more like 650 to 700 for my requirements. I'm guessing I should probably just go with OME medium for now and call it done.

 

[The Waco Kid]

Yeah, I would just find a few build threads with similar set ups and weight that you plan on running, and see what their shock/spring combo is. You can't go wrong with OME. Like jhalko said, springs are your biggest factor if you really plan on adding all that weight. Most aftermarket shocks are designed for the increased lift the spring gives you, so it really comes down to your personal preference. They all have their pros and cons, and there's a plethora of threads you can comb through discussing all of that.

 

[wfo9]

First off. you need to find me and some of the other local guys and check out our setups in action on difficult terrain. Your picture made me realize you were at place that I frequent. I think I have done every trail there (even the crazy ones).

I highly recommend getting real life experience with different setups and see what they do side by side. This will really open your eyes compared to listening to us wind bags here.... You will quickly learn what works best by simply observing.

I will say don't skimp on the suspension. It's something you will use everytime you get in the truck and saving $500 is just not worth it, especially when you are buying 4k worth of bumpers... skimping on the suspension is just not smart.

It's tough when you are installing all that weight. You have to put on springs that simply ride like crap until you get it all on there. I would recommend 700s up front and an overland /heavy set of spring in the rear. Dual rate are nice... UCAs are mandatory in my book. I've seen so many people waste their time and money trying to skimp on this stuff. They all seem to end up with the right stuff in the end, so why waste your time and money.


Also ask yourself a thousand times if you really need the weight of those bumpers. It brings along many downsides...

 

[DesertCanyons]

Suspension upgrade, ICON vs King

I've been shopping for the same mods. I found the King and ICON shocks are priced very close, the ICON being a couple hundred dollars more. That's if you compare front and back 2.5" long travel shocks with remote reservoirs and adjustment controls on both brands.
I haven't figured out which brand is better. Both brands are based in California and made here in the USA, AFAIK.
The UCA is a must if you go with these shocks. You need the caster adjustment and the larger clearance.
The springs should be upgraded. You don't get a lift in the back if you don't change the springs for the lift you want. For the added weight you're talking about you need more load carrying spring capacity. Don't bother with spacers alone if you're paying for good long travel shocks.
I plan to change all 5 of the control arms in the rear.
I haven't figured out whether I need longer brake lines or new bump stops. Apparently longer bump stops are recommended and noted by others here.

 

[RyanEJ25]

I was going bilstein but chas from MRT got me a great deal on a set of fox shocks and I haven't looked back. I like the rebuild aspect that bilstein doesn't have, at least to my knowledge. Like stated above spring rates will be key and possibly contact the manufacturer and have them custom valved for you specific setup.

 

[Scharfschütze]

First off. you need to find me and some of the other local guys and check out our setups in action on difficult terrain. Your picture made me realize you were at place that I frequent. I think I have done every trail there (even the crazy ones).

I highly recommend getting real life experience with different setups and see what they do side by side. This will really open your eyes compared to listening to us wind bags here.... You will quickly learn what works best by simply observing.

I will say don't skimp on the suspension. It's something you will use everytime you get in the truck and saving $500 is just not worth it, especially when you are buying 4k worth of bumpers... skimping on the suspension is just not smart.

It's tough when you are installing all that weight. You have to put on springs that simply ride like crap until you get it all on there. I would recommend 700s up front and an overland /heavy set of spring in the rear. Dual rate are nice... UCAs are mandatory in my book. I've seen so many people waste their time and money trying to skimp on this stuff. They all seem to end up with the right stuff in the end, so why waste your time and money.


Also ask yourself a thousand times if you really need the weight of those bumpers. It brings along many downsides...

Makes sense and good suggestions. I found a guy that parks right by me at work with the toytec setup. Met him Monday and he is on here somewhere. Going to hit him up for a ride next time I see him.

When are you planning to go to Hidden Falls again? Are you a member of any local FB pages that coordinate trips out there? I'm on Texas Overland FB page and I went out there with some other rigs, no 4tr5s though. In fact, I think a lot of the Texas Overland peeps are going to try to go to cars n' coffee @ the oasis in Jan. Perfect opp to try some setups if a few are there.

I get the message on the spring rates. I was not clear on my initial post. I was hoping to find an all in one kit with springs that will accomplish my goals rather than mix and match.

As I mentioned, I am looking at OME as well. Their basic 3" lift can be ordered from light-med-heavy, front and rear and toytec has their own package deal. I hope someone locally has this set up to try. I kinda like that they say the heavy front springs are for 230lbs more as that is about what the winch and bumper come out to that I have in mind.

[MENTION=106176]wfo9[/MENTION] I really like the way yours sits and kudos on the bumper mods, that looks awesome.

 

[greatape]

There's some sound advice here to a lengthy subject.

Thru my experience, a suspension upgrade will be the first thing I ever do to a stock vehicle and there are tons of options as stated.

Personally with my current 5th gen setup and use, I wanted a suspension system with adjustability on the front and rear and one that was re-buildable. I went around and around with a few suspects and finally decided on the OME BP-51. It had everything I was looking for based on uses and I believe the price-point is a good bang for your buck.

The challenges I faced was that I needed to find someone that had experience installing them being that the kit is designed for the FJ. Luckily, I was able to find a shop close to home that has extensive knowledge and is trained on re-building them.

Bottom-line, its was OME BP-51, TC UCA and 898 rear springs. I absolutely love them. There are a lot of great options out there but personally this one works for my use.

 

[Scharfschütze]

There's some sound advice here to a lengthy subject.

Thru my experience, a suspension upgrade will be the first thing I ever do to a stock vehicle and there are tons of options as stated.

Personally with my current 5th gen setup and use, I wanted a suspension system with adjustability on the front and rear and one that was re-buildable. I went around and around with a few suspects and finally decided on the OME BP-51. It had everything I was looking for based on uses and I believe the price-point is a good bang for your buck.

The challenges I faced was that I needed to find someone that had experience installing them being that the kit is designed for the FJ. Luckily, I was able to find a shop close to home that has extensive knowledge and is trained on re-building them.

Bottom-line, its was OME BP-51, TC UCA and 898 rear springs. I absolutely love them. There are a lot of great options out there but personally this one works for my use.

I have been looking at the BP-51 as well. Looks like an awesome setup! Perhaps it'll be out in 4runner spec when I am ready to go. Im going to have to coordinate the suspension and bumper here and the bumper isnt out yet.

 

[greatape]

I have been looking at the BP-51 as well. Looks like an awesome setup! Perhaps it'll be out in 4runner spec when I am ready to go. Im going to have to coordinate the suspension and bumper here and the bumper isnt out yet.

Good luck! ARB has been saying for a while its coming but we shall see. the FJ kit works fine, however w/KDSS equipped rigs, I've heard of challenges. The valving is slightly different but that can be dialed in with the adjustability.

OME makes some good products that are designed to handle some extreme weight but to that point. I am very weight conscious on my rig; the majority of the weight is in the rear, however due to my rebound and compression settings on my setup...I can barely feel any added weight in the back. I do plan on going very light up front though when the time comes, possibly aluminum front bumper, small form factor steel or perhaps just a hidden winch mount. If you are able, try to meet up locally with some peeps that run heavy front and rear setups...there is definitely going to be some trade-offs.

With that, we look forward to hearing and seeing your progress. Ride on...

 

[wfo9]

Makes sense and good suggestions. I found a guy that parks right by me at work with the toytec setup. Met him Monday and he is on here somewhere. Going to hit him up for a ride next time I see him.

When are you planning to go to Hidden Falls again? Are you a member of any local FB pages that coordinate trips out there? I'm on Texas Overland FB page and I went out there with some other rigs, no 4tr5s though. In fact, I think a lot of the Texas Overland peeps are going to try to go to cars n' coffee @ the oasis in Jan. Perfect opp to try some setups if a few are there.

I get the message on the spring rates. I was not clear on my initial post. I was hoping to find an all in one kit with springs that will accomplish my goals rather than mix and match.

As I mentioned, I am looking at OME as well. Their basic 3" lift can be ordered from light-med-heavy, front and rear and toytec has their own package deal. I hope someone locally has this set up to try. I kinda like that they say the heavy front springs are for 230lbs more as that is about what the winch and bumper come out to that I have in mind.

[MENTION=106176]wfo9[/MENTION] I really like the way yours sits and kudos on the bumper mods, that looks awesome.

OME is a solid choice for overland, but they definitely don't offer the most comfortable ride or that much travel. The durability can't be beat though. Sort of depends on your priorities. ICON does offer 650 to 700lb springs on their coil overs, so you don't have to swap them yourself or pay for springs you don't need. Most other high end brands only offer one spring option on the Toyota setups AFAIK. Toytec BOSS brand is OK, but I have seen a few failures. There are multiple good answers...

There will be a bunch of Toyotas at HF the weekend of Jan 20th for an event with a few clubs. I should be there next week a few times. And yes I'm on TXOV and a few others.