Flat towing

[KidVermicious]

I would love to set this record straight, because I'm probably going to be doing a bit of this. Conventional wisdom says you can't flat tow an auto or manual 4Runner without dropping the driveshaft. The owners manual for my '85 has this to say:

Towing with rear wheels or four wheels on ground -
Manual transmission: release the parking brake and put both the transmission and transfer in neutral.
Automatic transmission: release the parking brake and put the transmission in N. Do not tow faster than 30 mph or farther than 50 miles. If the vehicle must be towed faster or farther, disconnect the rear drive shaft at the rear differential to avoid damaging the transmission.

I've always been told that you have to drop the driveshaft on the five-speeds too, but that's not what the book says. Has anyone here flat towed a five speed and trashed the transmission or transfer case?

 

[Dropzone]

Marlin of Marlin Crawler says the rear t/c out out bearing doesn't get properly lubed (it is in the pirate 4x4 Toyota bible FAQ).
I flat towed my 84 cross country, with in 6 months I ended up replacing the transfer case.

6 years ago I used a tow dolly with my trekker. After a wet day of wheeling, it had rained 2-3" that day. I was wet & tired and thought WTF, I am only towing it 50 miles...transmission and duals were in neutral. Somehow it went into gear...cost me a transmission and crawl box.
It was about a $1000 reminder to drop the rear d/s and not be a lazy POS :flamethrwoer2:

 

[02SE]

There's this, just down the road in Orem: Toyota Rear Driveline Disconnect

There are also bound to be other driveshaft disconnects, available from the RV industry.

 

[KidVermicious]

Hey, that's cool. I like that a lot better than the air-actuated disconnects.

Here's the Trail Tough page, it's got a better pic than the Low Range page. I wonder how positively it locks in place.

Rear Drive Disconnect, For Toyotas

 

[flyinhawaiian01]

Blew my engine up years ago on I-5 heading home to OR, ended up having to tow it using a u-haul dolly.

I did exactly what I thought I was supposed to do, put trans in neutral (manual) put transfer case in neutral, start towing.

Bad, BAD idea! The transfer case in neutral locks the front diff in! I had gear oil shooting out of the breather for who knows how many miles!

Luckily, I had a small tool set with me and just said fawk it, disconnected the driveshaft at the rear diff and tied it up with some straps. Took me about 5 minutes on the ground in a rest stop around Lake Shasta.

Luckily, I didn't damage anything and got home safely about 7 hours later. Lesson learned, leave the transfer case in 2wd or disconnect the front drive shaft, and if you're gonna disconnect a drive shaft, don't waste time and take chances, just pull the rear shaft from the diff and be done with it!

 

[Dropzone]

^^ I take it you didn't have manual hubs?

 

[HanginInUtah]

Manual hubs and tow from the rear?
My 4Runner was delivered to me on a hook, with the front wheels on the ground. Transported through the city, so no highway... and no issues I know of with the drivetrain.
But if I was to tow it on a dolly, and have manual hubs on the front disconnected, wouldn't that work?

 

[flyinhawaiian01]

It had manual hubs, stock on the front ifs. Thing is, with transfer case in neutral, the case is locks front and rear axles together, so if the rear shaft is spinning, so is the front shaft. There's no other explanation of having oil spewing out the vent tube on the front diff.

 

[KidVermicious]

It had manual hubs, stock on the front ifs. Thing is, with transfer case in neutral, the case is locks front and rear axles together, so if the rear shaft is spinning, so is the front shaft. There's no other explanation of having oil spewing out the vent tube on the front diff.

Unless you had a hub stuck? It's been a minute since I was in an RF1A, but I'm pretty sure that neutral is neutral.

 

[flyinhawaiian01]

I dunno, Kevin. Its been a long time since that happened, but I would have remembered if the case was in anything other than neutral. Whether I had a hub stuck or not, the t-case is still sending torque to the front diff itself when the rear tires are spinning.

I believe the t-case is just disengaged from the transmission when put into neutral, but the front and rear driveline are still locked together, so if the rear wheels are on the ground and turning, it will transfer that power through the locked set right up through the front axle's diff.

And, thinking a bit more into this, if there was a locked or stuck front hub, it would try to spin that tire which would have really put a load on that diff, that would definitely have forced fluid out the top I would think! Luckily, BOTH hubs weren't locked, or the truck would have tried to auto-launch itself into the box truck I used to tow it!!!

I too need to look at that t-case layout to see if the locking fork disengages the front and rear when its forced to neutral, then re-engaged when pushed forward into 4LO.

In any case, I still think its just safer to disconnect the rear shaft when using a dolly. Perhaps, it could be that when you flat-tow, it would be safer to have it in neutral with the gears turning so they are slinging oil for long periods of towing time.

Good discussion about this though, I'm sure this will be read for years to come!

 

[KidVermicious]

I dunno, Kevin. Its been a long time since that happened, but I would have remembered if the case was in anything other than neutral. Whether I had a hub stuck or not, the t-case is still sending torque to the front diff itself when the rear tires are spinning.

I believe the t-case is just disengaged from the transmission when put into neutral, but the front and rear driveline are still locked together, so if the rear wheels are on the ground and turning, it will transfer that power through the locked set right up through the front axle's diff.

And, thinking a bit more into this, if there was a locked or stuck front hub, it would try to spin that tire which would have really put a load on that diff, that would definitely have forced fluid out the top I would think! Luckily, BOTH hubs weren't locked, or the truck would have tried to auto-launch itself into the box truck I used to tow it!!!

I too need to look at that t-case layout to see if the locking fork disengages the front and rear when its forced to neutral, then re-engaged when pushed forward into 4LO.

In any case, I still think its just safer to disconnect the rear shaft when using a dolly. Perhaps, it could be that when you flat-tow, it would be safer to have it in neutral with the gears turning so they are slinging oil for long periods of towing time.

Good discussion about this though, I'm sure this will be read for years to come!

Nope, you're right. I just crawled under to check - tcase and trans in N, hubs unlocked, I cannot spin my front shaft.

 

[flyinhawaiian01]

Whew! for a minute, I thought I was losing my freakin' mind! I know I'm gettin' old, but I had thoughts of having to buy some geritol or something!!!!

LOL!

:wink2:

 

[Infamous82]

Yeah my 85 4runner is the same way, front shaft doesn't spin freely in N or 4 when all 4 tires are on the ground, and yes the manual hubs were unlocked. If I were going to flat tow it, it would be in 2wd with rear shaft disconnected unless it was just a couple miles

 

[KidVermicious]

Manual hubs and tow from the rear?
My 4Runner was delivered to me on a hook, with the front wheels on the ground. Transported through the city, so no highway... and no issues I know of with the drivetrain.
But if I was to tow it on a dolly, and have manual hubs on the front disconnected, wouldn't that work?

Would you lock the steering or leave it open?

 

[HanginInUtah]

Lock it. And my towtruck buddy runs the seat belt through the steering wheel as a kind of security blanket.
I actually haven't got under to see what's locked and when. And mine is a 2nd gen, with the hydraulic transfer case, so there's that. But he towed it to me from downtown Salt Lake City out to the south end of the valley, and then after I replaced the transmission he towed it out to me again to get it home.
And, it's a lot easier with a tow truck, then on your own

 

[BKeller]

flat towing and tow bar recommendations

Greetings. I have a 1988 4Runner that I'm going to set up as my towed vehicle behind our 2017 Navion for traveling nearly full time and with lots of miles, and I am looking for any thoughts.

I see I need to disconnect the drive shaft and will do that. I also need to buy a towing setup and wonder if anyone has done this and recommends one brand over another. I lean towards to Blue Ox but there a lot of models and brands. Any thoughts?

I will also have my mechanic go through everything to make sure it's road/tow ready, but wondering if anyone on this forum had any ideas on any other things I should be considering? Thanks.

Brad
1988 4Runner

 

[Dropzone]

If you are towing a ton of miles and using the 4Runner quite a bit have you considers a flat bed trailer for the 4runner?
it would make your life easier, unbolting/rebolting driveshafts is a pain (right thing to do)

 

[fourwd1]

You're disconnecting both drive shafts, right?

 

[Big V]

You're disconnecting both drive shafts, right?

no need to disco the front driveshaft if you have manual hubs and keep the tcase in 2wd

 

[BKeller]

Thanks for the responses and please keep making suggestions. I do have manual hubs, so lean towards the option of keeping the hubs unlocked and t/c in 2wd. I am still considering a trailer but the added weight (even if it's alum.) either puts me close to or over the GVWR for the Navion and also limits access to places we want to go so prefer no trailer. Hooking/unhooking rear driveshaft might be a hassle but is still doable. At least with the front driveshaft still connected I could move the 4Runner around after getting to camp.