Full frame swap - Advice/input needed

[chewybtc]

Full frame swap - Advice/input needed - Progress being made

I thought i would put this up on the forum for 2 reasons. The first being that I hope people that have some experience with this will chime in and give us some pointers, etc. And the 2nd being that hopefully, when this is done, it will help anyone else that might want/need to take on the project.

I recently had a JDM engine put in and while at the garage, the guys noticed my frame was getting really bad around the back control arm brackets. Kenworth, a member on here, was getting rid of his frame that had barely any rust on it, and he had treated the inside rails already. So it was perfect timing and I picked it up last weekend.

To make a long story short, after talking with Kenworth, and going over some options (and a little persuading by me) he agreed to help me swap my frame in the near future.

He has a buddy with a lift that we can use to hold the body up while we change everything over to the new frame.

What I am hoping is that anyone that can give some advice/knowledge before we get started would post their thoughts.

Things like what to watch out for, things i should replace while doing the frame swap, etc, etc.

Kenworth doesn't have a ton of time to help me, so i want to make sure i have everything that we need to make this go as smooth and quick as I can.

Appreciate the input guys!

 

[LookAtThatDog]

YotaFun did a frame swap. He's not active here anymore, but hes on ultimateyota.com. I messaged him asking him the basic rundown when I considered frame swap. This is what he replied with:

There are def a few things.

Working front to back, you have to drain coolant and get your refrigerant recovered, because you have to disconnect those hoses and lines, plus the two body mounts behind the front bumper.

Working your way back, you have to disconnect the hard brake lines and ABS sensors where they connect from the body to the frame by the shock tower you also have to get the coolant lines going to the heater core, and rear heat coolant lines.

continuing you have to disconnect the drive shaft from the steering rack, and you also have to go in the truck and disconnect the wiring harness from the ECM and and feed it through the fire wall, also there are body mount bolts under the carpet towards the front of the cab and right next to the B-pillar

working back follow the evap and fuel lines and there are a couple of spots you can disconnect them from where they go to the body and what stays with the the tank and frame, in the truck under the drivers side rear passenger seat is a access panel to unplug the electrical to the fuel pump. also there are body mount bolts just in front of the rear wheel wells.

working towards the rear you have to disconnect the rear brake line at the frame and the abs sensors on top of each coil bucket on the frame, and if you have a locker disconnect the harness there.

then there are the rear body mount bolts in the cargo area, start lifting slowly to see if there is anything else.

thats the best I can do without actually being there

I welded mine up, but yours looks pretty dead. It's a shame you only noticed it after an engine swap...

good luck brother

 

[LoBrau]

Are all 3rd gen frames the same, or are there differences between auto/manual, 2wd/4wd, etc. frames? For example, would a 97 2wd 4cyl manual frame be a direct swap into a 2002 limited 4wd?

 

[Doc2012]

They're all the same.

which makes it easier to do a 4wd swap.


Just make sure everything is off, then lift the body.

 

[afg10000]

They're all the same.

which makes it easier to do a 4wd swap.


Just make sure everything is off, then lift the body.

I'm not one to argue with ya Doc2012 but I had my slider legs all welded up to install on my '96. That truck got totaled before installing the sliders. Got my '98 and went to put the sliders on and failed. The body mounts towards middle/rear were about 4" further back (or forward, can't recall). Needless to say, I've had terrible luck trying to get them damn things on there. I always figured the frames would be exact, especially going from '96 to '98. My '98 is a Canuck. I wonder if that creates the subtle difference.

 

[wslytoy]

I know it's time consuming & not always easy to get pics... but a well documented write up would be cool to look at it, when you're done.

 

[chewybtc]

I know it's time consuming & not always easy to get pics... but a well documented write up would be cool to look at it, when you're done.

Well since it will be 2 guys working, I hope I can snap a bunch of good photos to help out people here that might be thinking about doing this for their rusted frame.

 

[chewybtc]

YotaFun did a frame swap. He's not active here anymore, but hes on ultimateyota.com. I messaged him asking him the basic rundown when I considered frame swap. This is what he replied with:



I welded mine up, but yours looks pretty dead. It's a shame you only noticed it after an engine swap...

good luck brother

Thanks! Yeah i was a little upset they didn't say this is really bad, you might want to hold off on doing the engine swap. I knew it was rusting, but sort of forgot about it and hadn't looked for awhile. If i would have knew it was this bad I would have tried to do it all at one time.

But this way I can go over everything with Kenworth and really get everything clean. It will be like a new T4R when we are done!

I can't wait! Plus I am really looking forward to learning a ton of stuff!

 

[pattycakes77]

I have pics and a little play by play of when I did I mine a couple years ago. Not a write up but some pics to give you an idea of what I did. Operation: Re-build The PATYWGN! - YotaTech Forums

I used a donor frame, rear axle, new rear control arms, donor fuel tank, donor front diff, new SPC front upper control arms, and some other stuff. I did my timing belt stuff and new engine and trans mounts while everything was very accessible. Could not get the lines loose to the steering rack so we moved all that stuff attached which was a little more work. Clips for the fuel lines were brittle and broke so I got 5 or so new ones. My rear flexible break line to the axle was seized so I got a new one. A lot of it was wear and tear or just seized from salt and daily driving.

I would say try to plan some bigger maintenance items at the same time if you can since it will be easy to access. It took 2 hard working and knowledgeable techs about 2 and a half days of busting ass in a fully stocked shop with a 2 post lift and just about every tool needed. Corrosion will be your biggest enemy when loosening things or trying to reuse parts. Have a good bag of curse words and don't be afraid to use combinations of bad words even if it doesn't make sense, it will still feel good.

PM me if you have questions, I'm not always online but I'll try to help if I can.

 

[chewybtc]

Thanks Pattycakes77 for that info.

I too have been lucky in meeting a great guy, Kenworth, and getting his frame for the cost of a case of beer and a tank of gas to pick it up!

Not only that but he is the one that saw that I needed help in fixing my rust issue and didn't want me to cut up his frame and weld in the spots on my bad frame. Without him, and his expertise and tools, there is no way I could do a full swap, and my 4runner probably would have only been living for a year or two more. Now with his help, I am going to get another 10 years out of my truck.

It is great to see people in this world that still enjoy helping people, and I for one hope to be able to pay it forward as well. And I can't thank Kenworth enough for what he is doing to help me!

 

[LookAtThatDog]

Thanks Pattycakes77 for that info.

I too have been lucky in meeting a great guy, Kenworth, and getting his frame for the cost of a case of beer and a tank of gas to pick it up!

Not only that but he is the one that saw that I needed help in fixing my rust issue and didn't want me to cut up his frame and weld in the spots on my bad frame. Without him, and his expertise and tools, there is no way I could do a full swap, and my 4runner probably would have only been living for a year or two more. Now with his help, I am going to get another 10 years out of my truck.

It is great to see people in this world that still enjoy helping people, and I for one hope to be able to pay it forward as well. And I can't thank Kenworth enough for what he is doing to help me!

Chewy I want an update. What's the status of this frame swap?

 

[Brique]

[MENTION=108205]Kenworth[/MENTION] what a hero to 4runnerkind!

Hip hip, hooray!

 

[chewybtc]

Update

The weather has not been great here in PA the last couple weeks since I picked the frame up from Kenworth so I have not been able to do anything to it. But it's starting to warm up a bit (and the snow is finally all melted) so my plan is to get it cleaned up and stripped of anything I don't need (which Kenworth pretty much did already).

I've done some research, and even though the frame is in GREAT shape, I am going to do some preventative painting since the body is off and everything is easily accessible now. There is a Eastwood retail store about an hour from me, and luck would have it that they are having a rust repair clinic this week. So I'll be going there to get some expert advice on the proper way to really prepare this frame and make it last for 20 years!

Most likely going to use POR15, or the Eastwood equivalent, to paint the outside of the frame and even though Kenworth already sprayed Eastwood internal frame coating a while back, I'm going to do it again, just to make sure everything is really well coated on the inside of the rails.

We have a plan to go over my T4R this coming weekend at Kenworth's place. I'm not a mechanic, so I don't know what might need to be replaced on my current T4R. It only has 145,000 miles on it, but it's still a 1997 and I don't have a garage, so it's been outside all of it's life.

So the point of this trip this coming weekend to Kenworth's has two main goals.

The first is to check some of the problem bolts/nuts that might be rusted or seized. The last thing I want is to have major delays getting things apart when we finally do the frame swap. I'm so appreciative of Kenworth for his help, but I don't want to put him out either by having the truck sitting at his house for weeks while we wait for a part to come in that we had to cut off or something crazy like that.

The second is to look for things that have worn out, or will be shortly, and that should be replaced. If we are going to have practically every piece of the truck apart anyway, why put old or worn out parts back on the truck. So since I don't know what I am really looking for, Kenworth is going to help me look everything over with a fine tooth comb to find parts that I need to order so we have them ready for the frame swap.

So if anyone has any pointers for what to look for that might be, or should be replaced at this point, please post a comment!!

There is no major rush to get the frame swap done as I did have a friend weld a couple pieces of 1/8" plate to either side of the frame where the control arm bracket was basically falling off from rust on the passenger side. The frame was pretty bad, but he was able to find some good metal towards the top of the frame.

The frame is so bad that when we put it on the lift to do the welding the arms actually pushed into the bottom of the frame right in front of the control arm bracket on both sides!! I take care of my truck and yes I know I live in PA with lots of salt in the winter. But I try to at least run my truck thru the car wash every other week in the winter. So I find it really hard to believe that this rust is because of my lack of care for the truck. I really wish Toyota would have stepped up for us T4R owners like they did for Tacoma and Tundra people!!

Thanks for any input you guys can post about the rust preventative painting of the frame or parts that we should be looking closely at to replace, etc.

 

[chewybtc]

Going to learn about rust today

I'm going to Eastwood corporate office in Pottstown, PA today to take a class on rust!!

I'm hoping I will learn everything I need to know about rust and how to prevent it today!

I'll probably come back with all the supplies I need as well, as they have a outlet/retail store right there as well.

 

[fourwd1]

I did a frame swap on my 83 about 12 yrs ago.
Mine was in much worse shape.
Don't have a lift so I beefed up the rafters in my garage and used come alongs to lift body off. Already had an engine hoist and trans jack.
You just have to disconnect everything that goes between body and frame: brake lines, fuel lines, wiring, etc. Pull AC compressor off engine and tie it to body so you don't have to recharge it.
While engine is out its a good time to replace timing chain/belt, etc.

 

[1sam16]

The weather has not been great here in PA the last couple weeks since I picked the frame up from Kenworth so I have not been able to do anything to it. But it's starting to warm up a bit (and the snow is finally all melted) so my plan is to get it cleaned up and stripped of anything I don't need (which Kenworth pretty much did already).

I've done some research, and even though the frame is in GREAT shape, I am going to do some preventative painting since the body is off and everything is easily accessible now. There is a Eastwood retail store about an hour from me, and luck would have it that they are having a rust repair clinic this week. So I'll be going there to get some expert advice on the proper way to really prepare this frame and make it last for 20 years!

Most likely going to use POR15, or the Eastwood equivalent, to paint the outside of the frame and even though Kenworth already sprayed Eastwood internal frame coating a while back, I'm going to do it again, just to make sure everything is really well coated on the inside of the rails.

We have a plan to go over my T4R this coming weekend at Kenworth's place. I'm not a mechanic, so I don't know what might need to be replaced on my current T4R. It only has 145,000 miles on it, but it's still a 1997 and I don't have a garage, so it's been outside all of it's life.

So the point of this trip this coming weekend to Kenworth's has two main goals.

The first is to check some of the problem bolts/nuts that might be rusted or seized. The last thing I want is to have major delays getting things apart when we finally do the frame swap. I'm so appreciative of Kenworth for his help, but I don't want to put him out either by having the truck sitting at his house for weeks while we wait for a part to come in that we had to cut off or something crazy like that.

The second is to look for things that have worn out, or will be shortly, and that should be replaced. If we are going to have practically every piece of the truck apart anyway, why put old or worn out parts back on the truck. So since I don't know what I am really looking for, Kenworth is going to help me look everything over with a fine tooth comb to find parts that I need to order so we have them ready for the frame swap.

So if anyone has any pointers for what to look for that might be, or should be replaced at this point, please post a comment!!

There is no major rush to get the frame swap done as I did have a friend weld a couple pieces of 1/8" plate to either side of the frame where the control arm bracket was basically falling off from rust on the passenger side. The frame was pretty bad, but he was able to find some good metal towards the top of the frame.

The frame is so bad that when we put it on the lift to do the welding the arms actually pushed into the bottom of the frame right in front of the control arm bracket on both sides!! I take care of my truck and yes I know I live in PA with lots of salt in the winter. But I try to at least run my truck thru the car wash every other week in the winter. So I find it really hard to believe that this rust is because of my lack of care for the truck. I really wish Toyota would have stepped up for us T4R owners like they did for Tacoma and Tundra people!!

Thanks for any input you guys can post about the rust preventative painting of the frame or parts that we should be looking closely at to replace, etc.

I'm new around here, but for what its worth I had a 97' with a similar problem....but only on the driver side. We ended up trailering the 4runner over to a friends body shop, dropped the gas tank and build a 16" long sleeve out of plate steel. It completely surrounded/supported the damaged section of the frame. I drove it that way for two years without a any other problems.

I now own a 02' with light surface rust on the frame and am preparing to use corroseal (Corroseal Rust Converter | Metal Primer | Rust Paint) to treat the frame prior to undercoating.

Hope all works out well!

 

[chewybtc]

Frame cleaned

So it was a nice warm day this weekend finally and I got some time to work on the frame. I used some degreaser that i sprayed on and let sit a bit and then pressure washed everything with some simple green in the soap tank. I then rinsed everything really well and let it sit in the sun for most of the day. It worked pretty well and really cleaned up pretty nice.

 

[chewybtc]

Rust class at Eastwood completed!

I went to the corporate headquarters for Eastwood products on Tuesday. The class was great and I learned a lot. They have a retail store there as well, so I was able to get all of my supplies with the help of the techs.

For the frame I'm going to be using their product called Rust Converter on all of the spots that have any rust. You just spray it on and it converts the rust and does not harm any of the other areas that are painted. The demo was pretty cool and it gets rave reviews.

I'll then be roughing up the painted areas with a scotch pad and wiping it down with some acetone and making sure everything is clean and dry.

I'll then be moving the frame into a homemade paint booth I am going to be making this weekend. (some 3 mil plastic sealed over a 2x4 frame with a positive pressure system with 2 box fans pushing air and some furnace filters to catch dust on intake and over spray on exhaust)

Once I have the frame in the booth and ready to paint I will be using Rust Encapsulator on everything. I'll be doing 2 coats with a HVLP gun I got at Eastwood as well. They said it works pretty good for what I want to do with it and it was like 25 bucks!

Once the encapsulator is dry I will be using Extreme Chassis paint to put the final coat on everything. It has epoxy in it and the techs said it is very good for the frame. I got 1 can of the aerosol as it was pretty expensive and they said I should be able to do the whole frame with 1 can.

I'll also be using Internal Frame Coating to do the inside of the frame. Kenworth has used this already on this frame, but it was on his old truck when he did it, and I just want to make sure everything internally is covered really well. I got 2 cans (one for each rail) which should be more than enough. The long tube and special nozzle are really pretty cool.

I went with all Eastwood products rather than POR 15 as the rust on this frame has not got to the point of being really bad or any where close really. It's mostly surface rust so I thought the POR 15 would be overkill, and so did the techs at Eastwood (and they sell and recommend POR 15 so they weren't just saying "use our products")

I've never sprayed anything with a HVLP gun before, so I am a little scared, but I have to learn some time. I've got a 1.5 HP 12 gallon compressor that is rated for 4.7 scfm at 40 psi and 3.3 scfm at 90 psi (125 psi max) so I am hoping that it will work OK. The gun says it requires 17 CFM @ 30 to 50 PSI but the techs at Eastwood say as long as I don't spray continuously and let the compressor catch up I should be OK.

Anyone with any thoughts on if this setup will work ok?



Thanks!

 

[Kryptoroxx]

Just as another option for a frame coating would be chassis saver. Magnet paint makes it and when I coated part of my frame (the rest will be dine when I do a body lift) and it's some tough stuff! I liked the por 15 and I coated an axle housing in it. Definitely good stuff as well. Haven't used the Eastwood stuff but they make quality products for the most part so I would think it's pretty good as well. Reason I would side with the por 15 is because it IS overkill lol.

 

[Kenworth]

Man if we scratch this frame when we install it your going to die