and the silver bumper tumors lol
Future purchase...struggling between TE or SR5
- Thread starter cheeser
- Start date
DesertCanyons
New member
Thanks for your reply. I was asking a question about the electronic control knob for the transfer case. The Trail lever is much more intuitive to me.
The SR5 has a rocker panel trim that must be removed for installing most if not all of the rock sliders. The front bumper does appear to be the same, except for the Trail's silver panel. And the Hood Scoop is non-functional. Go Figure?
I think we're saying the same thing about the rest of the facts.
as he said... the SR5 and the TE (14-15) have the same rocker panel now.
1engineer
Moderator
No. Again, the SR5 and TE have the same exact rocker panels on the 2014-2015 models, which is what the OP is buying. Nothing has to be removed.
I had a TE with the lever and it was fine. I have a SR5 with the knob and it is fine too. They ultimately accomplish the same task.
wfo9
New member
I agree KDSS is a great choice for most people, but I think it is BS that a Baja race vehicle has it. If it does, it is purely for marketing. I can't imagine why you would want it in those conditions.
DesertCanyons
New member
Locking differentials
Cute dog. I see the black n tan in him.
Please don't tell everyone about the extra power from the Trail Edition's hood scoop. Then everyone will want one and no one will buy the SR5 or LE. People who unwittingly bought LE and SR5s will start stealing our hoods with scoops for the 10% power increase. The price of a Trail will skyrocket and what scarce availability we have now will disappear. Dealers will show buyers the carb' intake under that scoop and that'll just seal the deal. :artist:
Re: the locking diff, I've been stuck on two points before. Last time, I happened to stop when two opposite wheels were balanced on two rocks. The other two wheels were off the ground. I couldn't move an inch until I rocked the car back and jammed a few rocks under one of the free wheels. If you're spinning through mud or over soft sand then keeping both back wheels engaged may keep you from getting stuck and mired. I'm not sure if ATRAC braking the free wheels makes enough of a difference in these cases. It may help with the front wheels, which don't have lockers.
Cute dog. I see the black n tan in him.
Please don't tell everyone about the extra power from the Trail Edition's hood scoop. Then everyone will want one and no one will buy the SR5 or LE. People who unwittingly bought LE and SR5s will start stealing our hoods with scoops for the 10% power increase. The price of a Trail will skyrocket and what scarce availability we have now will disappear. Dealers will show buyers the carb' intake under that scoop and that'll just seal the deal. :artist:
Re: the locking diff, I've been stuck on two points before. Last time, I happened to stop when two opposite wheels were balanced on two rocks. The other two wheels were off the ground. I couldn't move an inch until I rocked the car back and jammed a few rocks under one of the free wheels. If you're spinning through mud or over soft sand then keeping both back wheels engaged may keep you from getting stuck and mired. I'm not sure if ATRAC braking the free wheels makes enough of a difference in these cases. It may help with the front wheels, which don't have lockers.
Thanks for the info folks. Based on what I have read here and in a number of other posts, it looks like I will be looking for the TE without KDSS. I understand the benefits of KDSS, but would rather use those funds to help pay for the lift and new rims/tires. I do prefer the lever for transfer case, but will have to double check the black seats.
If I cant find one locally (or a reasonable search...will keep TX in mind as I have family moving there.), it doesn't sound if just buying and SR5 will be that big of an issue based on my 4wheeling style.
I do tend to keep my vehicles for a long time now which is one reason where I want to buy what I want.
If I cant find one locally (or a reasonable search...will keep TX in mind as I have family moving there.), it doesn't sound if just buying and SR5 will be that big of an issue based on my 4wheeling style.
I do tend to keep my vehicles for a long time now which is one reason where I want to buy what I want.
BLACK-FL4RUNNER
Member
ATRAC would of gotten you out of that situation. Please don't comment about something you know nothing about.
Thanks
Friggin Idiot
Senior Member
The real question I'm hearing is whether or not you NEED a rear diff locker and KDSS (Trail), or not (SR5). Honestly it comes down to you.
There's plenty of pictures on here of people taking stock (tires and all) vehicles into places I wouldn't even consider with a vehicle the bank still has me making payments on. A-TRAC seems to be quite capable, and any good off-road driver (I don't fit this category) can drive a vehicle without all those extra control modes and crawl control they have on the overhead console.
I think there's a thread here somewhere where users are adding the TE rear diff locker to SR5s. So if you're planning on modifying the vehicle, keep that in mind.
KDSS seems to be hit and miss, some love them, some think it's nigh worthless and overrated. Best advice I can give is to go test drive one with and one without (assuming you can find a dealer that has them). Both on and off road KDSS vehicles handle differently than those without. The KDSS vehicle has a smoother ride and slightly better handling on road than the SR5. Whether or not that's worth $1k+ is your own opinion. I'm absolutely for it, but I traded a GT sedan for my 4Runner and drive a battlefield of potholes and road debris to work every day.
If you're planning on lifting, the TE already has more ground clearance than the other models (9.6" to 9.0" I believe). From what I gather in other forums, KDSS may interfere with some very high lift choices. Do a search to find out more.
Any time you're considering a new vehicle it should be approached like pilots who are looking to buy an airplane. If you're honest with yourself, your answers may be surprising.
What do I NEED this vehicle for? Why do I want THIS vehicle? What will I use this vehicle for 80+% of the time? Does it fulfill that mission? How can I account for the other <20%?
There's plenty of pictures on here of people taking stock (tires and all) vehicles into places I wouldn't even consider with a vehicle the bank still has me making payments on. A-TRAC seems to be quite capable, and any good off-road driver (I don't fit this category) can drive a vehicle without all those extra control modes and crawl control they have on the overhead console.
I think there's a thread here somewhere where users are adding the TE rear diff locker to SR5s. So if you're planning on modifying the vehicle, keep that in mind.
KDSS seems to be hit and miss, some love them, some think it's nigh worthless and overrated. Best advice I can give is to go test drive one with and one without (assuming you can find a dealer that has them). Both on and off road KDSS vehicles handle differently than those without. The KDSS vehicle has a smoother ride and slightly better handling on road than the SR5. Whether or not that's worth $1k+ is your own opinion. I'm absolutely for it, but I traded a GT sedan for my 4Runner and drive a battlefield of potholes and road debris to work every day.
If you're planning on lifting, the TE already has more ground clearance than the other models (9.6" to 9.0" I believe). From what I gather in other forums, KDSS may interfere with some very high lift choices. Do a search to find out more.
Any time you're considering a new vehicle it should be approached like pilots who are looking to buy an airplane. If you're honest with yourself, your answers may be surprising.
What do I NEED this vehicle for? Why do I want THIS vehicle? What will I use this vehicle for 80+% of the time? Does it fulfill that mission? How can I account for the other <20%?
Jetboy
New member
You'd have to ask Toyota's race team.
It's banned by FIA in WRC and Dakar races. Obviously Toyota had the choice of either KDSS or non-KDSS when they picked a 4runner off the assembly line to run the Baja with. Toyota chose KDSS.
DesertCanyons
New member
Thanks for the friendly replies
And [MENTION=66316]1engineer[/MENTION]
Thanks for the friendly replies. You two are real charmers.
It's not really about me. But since you brought it up...
I know what I'm talking about. I grew up driving Jeep Willys and living in the mud of winter around Shasta County, CA. I've driven sand in a 36 hp VW bug (maybe before you were born). I drove a 4 cyl Toyota truck in snow & ice w/o chains and sand for early 20 years. Recently I drove in deep sand in Joshua Tree in my '95 Jeep GC in 4 low and nearly got stuck without a locking diff'. Watching the Toyota video on ATRAC does not inspire me to believe it can replace a locking diff'. I doubt if I'll use it much, except for extra traction on the front wheels. :hello:
BlackFL4Runner, there's no vehicle in your sig'. What are you driving?
And [MENTION=66316]1engineer[/MENTION]
Thanks for the friendly replies. You two are real charmers.
It's not really about me. But since you brought it up...
I know what I'm talking about. I grew up driving Jeep Willys and living in the mud of winter around Shasta County, CA. I've driven sand in a 36 hp VW bug (maybe before you were born). I drove a 4 cyl Toyota truck in snow & ice w/o chains and sand for early 20 years. Recently I drove in deep sand in Joshua Tree in my '95 Jeep GC in 4 low and nearly got stuck without a locking diff'. Watching the Toyota video on ATRAC does not inspire me to believe it can replace a locking diff'. I doubt if I'll use it much, except for extra traction on the front wheels. :hello:
BlackFL4Runner, there's no vehicle in your sig'. What are you driving?
Jetboy
New member
No one who's had full locking differentials would say that ATRAC is a viable substitute. It's pretty close to as effective as a good posi. I think a Detroit tru-trac is very comparable in feel and function. It's a whole lot better than open diffs, but a decent bit less capable than fully locked diffs.
Where ATRAC - and all traction control - fails is the scenarios where you have a large difference between static an kinetic friction. Where slipping means a large loss in force. So - snow, ice, wet rocks, slick muddy trails, etc. In that case the ATRAC has to sense wheel slip before engaging and by that point you've lost a lot of your possible traction. With full lockers you can achieve the threshold of motion from all 4 tires simultaneously. And there are times when that means a lot. Most times it's not necessary and ATRAC works great.
IMO it bridges the gap from open to locked about 50% - and of course that's very subjective. I'd say ATRAC with open diffs SR5 would be pretty close to the same ability as open front and locked rear differential.
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1engineer
Moderator
Hey, It's all good until you start posting fiction for fact. Opinions are one thing because there is no right or wrong. Something as simple as side skirts... or not is easily determined though. Not only did you get it wrong once but you continued to get it wrong.
Soapbox:
There is a reason this is a good forum and that is most, not all but most, hard information here is correct. When people google a question about a 5th gen 4Runner the search results wind up here. Being wrong is not good. Posts like yours above is not good as it would steer a casual user down a wrong path. It's good we keep it factual. off soapbox.
From reading your posts you have yet to prove you know anything and posts unfortunately are all anyone here has to go on here. Your experience is meaningless when comparing a system such as ATRAC to a Willys Jeep. I have been off road a time or two for about 35-40 years now and I can tell you first hand (I've had three 5th gen 4Runners so far for a total of around 150K miles) that my old Jeep Commando was inferior in every way to my 4Runner. You ought to hold off speaking about things you have yet to experience. ATRAC is pretty amazing on both the front and the rear. I also didn't realize it was my week to charm.
BlacknTan
New member
Thanks!
The little girl in the photo is a Field bred English Setter ... my "pocket rocket.." 31 lbs at 1 year old. Got her out of a friend's kennel where she was very unhappy! Very well bred, out of Ultimate Reissue x Clark's Sandy Beach. Someone tried to finish her too fast, and basically ruined her .. never pointed a bird in her life, but I gave her every opportunity, and she spent many an hour running the big woods. Anyway, she'll be 12 years old in July, and had a great life here .. She made us very happy.
We had Field Gordons for almost forty years, and still have one, but she's getting up in years also, so that's where the "BlacknTan" comes from.
I've got a fair amount of arthritis .. so I don't know what my next dog will be.. can't run down misbehaving "outlaws" anymore!
Had alot of gundogs .. Some great, some just good, and some knuckleheads, but they all found a way into my heart ...
Sorry for the hijack!
BlacknTan
New member
The internet is a great place to glean information ... if one can seperate the "wheat from the chaff." And the ratio of "wheat to chaff" here is comparable to other sites I've participated on. In other words, I consider all the info on an internet forum suspect.
I'll ask questions from time to time, but I don't consider the answers "gospel" until I've corroborated it myself.
BLACK-FL4RUNNER
Member
A thinking man, I like that!
DesertCanyons
New member
Will the real Charmer please stand up
Yes Greg, it's your week to charm. You're very knowledgeable about cars in general and T4Rs specifically. I always read your posts. :fencing:
I was very clear in separating my opinions from fact with respect to electronic diff controls and ATRAC. Maybe it's just me, but when I say "I think", "I believe", "it's more intuitive to me" or "I prefer", it means just that.
As for the rocker panels, all of the rock slider sales websites say you must remove the rocker panels on 2010 to 2015 LE and SR5 to install their sliders. If I misread that, my bad.
I really don't have anything to prove. I can read specs and figure out how things work. I've gleaned a lot from reading here for 6 months. Friends who drive T4Rs have told me a lot about their tucks and I frequently join them on off-road adventures. I have yet to drive off-road with a T4R using ATRAC, KDSS or Locking Diff. I've made that clear in my comments and my signature. That does not mean I don't know how these systems work.
Thanks again Mr. Charisma.
"My friends all drive porches. I must make amends. So oh Lord won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz." JJ
Yes Greg, it's your week to charm. You're very knowledgeable about cars in general and T4Rs specifically. I always read your posts. :fencing:
I was very clear in separating my opinions from fact with respect to electronic diff controls and ATRAC. Maybe it's just me, but when I say "I think", "I believe", "it's more intuitive to me" or "I prefer", it means just that.
As for the rocker panels, all of the rock slider sales websites say you must remove the rocker panels on 2010 to 2015 LE and SR5 to install their sliders. If I misread that, my bad.
I really don't have anything to prove. I can read specs and figure out how things work. I've gleaned a lot from reading here for 6 months. Friends who drive T4Rs have told me a lot about their tucks and I frequently join them on off-road adventures. I have yet to drive off-road with a T4R using ATRAC, KDSS or Locking Diff. I've made that clear in my comments and my signature. That does not mean I don't know how these systems work.
Thanks again Mr. Charisma.
"My friends all drive porches. I must make amends. So oh Lord won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz." JJ
