got insulted!

Lets see....Freelander has little on-road (even thought they are called all-terrain) tires. it has the luggage space of a CRV, was the price of af a 4runner sport, had 174 HP from a V6 (are you freakin kidding?! Thats it?!)

Oh yeah:IT WAS SO FREAKIN GOOD THEY STOPPED MAKING THEM?!

I have only seen them driven by an old guy and fat chics (I am serious about this by the way). I have never seen one off-roading. Tell your friend to bring a tow strap so you can pull that overpriced POS CRV wanna-be out of the gravel when you go offroading. Oh yeah, bring a camera because I think we could all use a nice laugh!
 
dingo said:
As proud and passionate Toyota/4runner owners, it is our duty to inform these ignorant people that our machines are well capable of what they are designed to be and do. Not to mention to make the nay sayers out there eat their own words.

Neowig, please be as kind as to direct your friend's ignorant @ss to this thread. I agree with ksneubec, pictures speak a thousand words.
Click to expand...

I was just saying, the guy doesn't even know he doesn't really own a "Land Rover"! I think pointing that out would be sufficient...
 
Koz said:
I don't see the Lexus' better and you definitely need to re-think the GC HEEP. The Freelander is better off-road. I also think the Xterra may be a better bang for the buck but I
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OUTRNNR said:
Yeah, really. What the hell is a Kia Sorento doing on there? Thing's built so cheap it would probably bend the frame while attempting to "wheel"

Also, it should be noted that the Freelander doesn't even have a low-range.
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I made up my list in like less than two minutes. Check out these quotes on the Sorento from Four Wheeler mags 2003 Truck of the year competition. They know a little bit more about 4x4s than Car and Driver or Motor Trend:

"This five-passenger SUV is built on a full ladder frame that features nine crossmembers for maximum strength. Suspension consists of IFS/double wishbones with coil springs up front and a solid-axle/five-link/coil system out back."

"Probably the biggest surprise to our judges was the Kia's wheel-ability. Somehow, the Sorento would always find traction, and as a result, it was able to climb over most obstacles we pointed it toward. The Sorento has a limited-slip rear diff, but this rarely would engage, as there was hardly ever any wheelspin. Most of us were just left scratching our heads wondering how the Kia found traction. It's that effective, at least in part thanks to its excellent Michelin tires."

"Smooth, willing V-6 engine. Nimble chassis, especially on curvy pavement. Surprisingly capable in the dirt. Not enough low-range-ratio. Comes wearing high-end Michelins, a good thing."


I had read that article and had it in the back of my mind when I put it on the list. Where would you rank it?

I did mention that the Freelander had no low-range when I responded to Koz's post regarding the GC Heep.

Here's the link. By the way, tyhe GX470 won the competition two years in a row (2003 and 2004). The KDSS allows for the front sway bar to be disengaged, which really helps the front wheel articulation. Something the 4Runner can't do....

Four Wheeler
 
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I have only seen them driven by an old guy and fat chics (I am serious about this by the way).
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Hey Fat Chics (also know as bubbycitches) need love to!!! Just Not Freelanders!!! Friends don't let Friends drive freelanders!!! They tell them to walk!!!:D
 
Why I ranked GX470 ahead of T4R

From Four Wheeler mag, which is what I suspected. Notice that they ramped the rig, which should tell you that they at least have some idea of what off-road ability is all about:

"The Lexus shined on the trail. Judging from the mail we received, many of you thought we were nuts last year when we praised the Lexus's four-wheeling abilities. It's based on the 4Runner, remember, which has always been a competent trail performer. Since we liked the Lexus last year, it is no surprise that we liked it even better this year, since it has greater articulation. Sure, at first some of us thought the KDSS system was a gimmick. But then we ramped the GX and found that increased articulation was notable and, on a 20-degree ramp, provided a 519 RTI, compared to an RTI score of 428 on a GX 470 without KDSS. This increased articulation is readily apparent on the trail, where the flex of the rear suspension helps the Lexus stay planted on the ground so that it can find traction. Also helping on the trail was a well-working traction control system that would engage with a minimum of wheelspin. With the most flex and a traction control system that worked well, the Lexus cruised to an easy victory in our important trail scoring section."



Link
 
Baba Booey said:
I made up my list in like less than two minutes. Check out these quotes on the Sorento from Four Wheeler mags 2003 Truck of the year competition. They know a little bit more about 4x4s than Car and Driver or Motor Trend:

"This five-passenger SUV is built on a full ladder frame that features nine crossmembers for maximum strength. Suspension consists of IFS/double wishbones with coil springs up front and a solid-axle/five-link/coil system out back."

"Probably the biggest surprise to our judges was the Kia's wheel-ability. Somehow, the Sorento would always find traction, and as a result, it was able to climb over most obstacles we pointed it toward. The Sorento has a limited-slip rear diff, but this rarely would engage, as there was hardly ever any wheelspin. Most of us were just left scratching our heads wondering how the Kia found traction. It's that effective, at least in part thanks to its excellent Michelin tires."

"Smooth, willing V-6 engine. Nimble chassis, especially on curvy pavement. Surprisingly capable in the dirt. Not enough low-range-ratio. Comes wearing high-end Michelins, a good thing."


I had read that article and had it in the back of my mind when I put it on the list. Where would you rank it?

I did mention that the Freelander had no low-range when I responded to Koz's post regarding the GC Heep.

Here's the link. By the way, tyhe GX470 won the competition two years in a row (2003 and 2004). The KDSS allows for the front sway bar to be disengaged, which really helps the front wheel articulation. Something the 4Runner can't do....

Four Wheeler
Click to expand...
OK, but its still a Kia. ;):
 
I wish neowig would post an update. Wonder if he conveyed anything to his friend about the comparison (or lack thereof) between the two.
 
I think Baba Booey's list of off-road competence isn't much different than what I'd list, although I'd drop the Highlander entirely and add the Hummer H1 and the Xterra. The H1 might be at the top of the list, although it is so big it gets disqualified on many trails.

The problem with the list, however, is that it gives bragging rights to vehicles. Vehicles need drivers, and in my experience the driver is the key factor. The right driver, even in a Freelander, could outwheel me in any vehicle on the list. Driving behind some of these guys is a humbling experience.
 
Gotta chime in on this one!

Since I live in the land of Range Rovers (Aspen, CO) and own a 4Runner, I gotta chime in! The Range Rover HSEs (with the BMW or Jaguar engines) and the newer Sport and supercharged Sport are quite capable off-road vehicles, albeit way overpriced. The older 4.6 HSEs, Countrys, and Discoveries were okay, but weren't very reliable (kind of like an old British motorcycle). I see probably 50 HSEs daily and there must be a couple hundred of 'em in this little town--here they're totally status symbols and never venture off-road. Rarely, I see the Highlander and in comparision to the HSE and Sport, it looks like a cheap little toy. The LR3s aren't as popular as the HSE probably 'cause they aren't expensive enough! There are a few of the very capable Defender 90s around here and they go for premium prices. The ironic status symbol is a POS beat-up old Rover.

I'm starting to see more and more 4Runners, Land Cruisers and LX470s. You can tell when a vehicle's been off-road out here and the RRs I see are usually spotless (hell, they even have heated driveways here!), so that tells you something. Now, I wouldn't turn down a RR, especially if somebody tried to force me to take one of those copper-colored RR Sport supercharged, but I'm happy with my Limited. BTW, has anybody looked at the dash of a Range Rover? Could we possible get a few more buttons on that dash? Reminds me of that quote from Amadeus, "this opera has too many notes".

http://images.google.com/imgres?img...ge+rover+supercharged&svnum=10&hl=en&lr=&sa=G
 
I didn't include the H1 because I figured it would qualify as a large SUV as opposed to mid-size. I have the Xterra on the list.

I included vehicles such as the Highlander and Pilot at the bottom of the list just to show the extremes - going from G-Wagen to basically, station wagon in the mid-size SUV category.
 
Baba Booey said:
I didn't include the H1 because I figured it would qualify as a large SUV as opposed to mid-size. I have the Xterra on the list.

I included vehicles such as the Highlander and Pilot at the bottom of the list just to show the extremes - going from G-Wagen to basically, station wagon in the mid-size SUV category.
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Okay, I guess your two minutes creating the list was longer than my one minute reviewing it. I'll accept it in its entirety.

But I still think the vehicle far less important than the driver.
 
You actually couldn't pay me to drive a Rover; and I'm not just saying that. If someone gave one to me, I'd sell it instantly, but not to anyone I liked.

I know on the internet everyone likes to talk-down vehicles they don't own, or hype-up the ones they do......but Land/Range Rovers are simply some of the most unreliable and over-hyped pieces of shit out there, end of story. Unless one of your off-roadin' buddy's wheels a tow truck, I'd be scared to leave the highway.....oh wait, maybe that's why none of them ever do! This just in......driving on and off the dealer's hoist ramp twice a week is NOT 4-wheeling!!

Anyone that thinks Rover's off-road abilities are THAT much better that their shitty-ness and pricing is justifiable is only kidding themselves and their wallet.
 
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dingo said:
I wish neowig would post an update. Wonder if he conveyed anything to his friend about the comparison (or lack thereof) between the two.
Click to expand...

believe me, i thought about what would be the sweetest way to tell him my t4r blows his POS RR. I fantasized about printing out this entire thread, put it in the envelop, and mail it to him HAHA...

but in the end, I felt that this is coming down to 'my dick is bigger than urs' contest. important? hell yeah... but a bit childish as well...

5 minutes in the locker room will usually shut him up if it is indeed the dick contest. :D however, there is no subtle way to let him know that my t4r is superior to his POS RR...

Eventually, I will take him to off-road trail and see how he fares. Yes, i will take tow strap in case he get stuck... :D

Thanks for ur support! :jester:
 
Northof49 said:
You actually couldn't pay me to drive a Rover; and I'm not just saying that. If someone gave one to me, I'd sell it instantly, but not to anyone I liked.

I know on the internet everyone likes to talk-down vehicles they don't own, or hype-up the ones they do......but Land/Range Rovers are simply some of the most unreliable and over-hyped pieces of shit out there, end of story. Unless one of your off-roadin' buddy's wheels a tow truck, I'd be scared to leave the highway.....oh wait, maybe that's why none of them ever do! This just in......driving on and off the dealer's hoist ramp twice a week is NOT 4-wheeling!!

Anyone that thinks Rover's off-road abilities are THAT much better that their shitty-ness and pricing is justifiable is only kidding themselves and their wallet.
Click to expand...

Be careful, you'll hurt the feelings of the filthy rich here in Aspen (gotta be the RR capital of the world--I'm not kidding, they're everywhere). Funny thing, the dealership can't even afford to have a place here--they're in Glenwood Springs, 40 miles away. Guess they have their personal assistants take the things "downvalley" to get 'em fixed.
 
I turned in a 2002 Freelander SE for a 2003 4Runner SR5 about a month ago and I can tell you from personal experience that the Freeloader does not handle anywhere near as well as the 4Runner in snowy conditions. We have not had much snow this year in the Northeast but I have been through 2 pretty major storms, 1 in the Freelander and 1 in the 4Runner. I was heading down my hill during the first storm in the Freelander to pick up my wife who could not make it up the hill in her Accord and I was sideways twice in the Freelander (the Hill Decent Control was useless and I had to turn it off after sliding sideways the first time). This past storm (about 4 inches more than the first) I had no problem up or down the hill in the 4Runner. I also had to rescue my wife a second time in a pretty precarious position with the 4Runner and she pulled the Accord out nicely with a tow rope. I never had to drop it to 4Low. Also, realize that the Freelander does not have a 4Low option, just full-time 4WD. I can tell you I feel much safer in the 4Runner.

Also went through a blizzard on the NY Thruway from Syracuse to Utica in the 4Runner and blew by other 4WD vehicles hanging out in the right lane. I loved it!!
 
Land Rovers were nice when they were owned by BMW but since they're now owned by Ford they have lost a lot of their credibility. Combine that with about $15k depreciation per year in the first few years make this one of the worst investments you could make.
 
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