got insulted!

[wilsoncwil]

I like discussing the merits of different vehicles as much as anybody, but many of the posts on this thread make me embarrassed to be driving a 4Runner. "Real" off-road drivers do no indulge in pissing contests on vehicles--especially on stock vehicles.

If you want to drive the trails, just get out there and have fun. Show respect to every vehicle you see, because you never know when the guy pulling you out might be driving a Land Rover Freelander.

Dang, why are you so serious? You sound like Olliebear. Of course you are going to have people in this forum talk trash about other vehicles just like people in other forums will talk trash about the 4Runner. Just think if this forum was your favorite sports team, would you post nice comments about your team's most hated rival? I don't think so.

 

[ksneubec]

Dang, why are you so serious? You sound like Olliebear. Of course you are going to have people in this forum talk trash about other vehicles just like people in other forums will talk trash about the 4Runner. Just think if this forum was your favorite sports team, would you post nice comments about your team's most hated rival? I don't think so.

I agree with Dennis. Its one thing to say a vehicle is crappy off road, but another to call their driver's p*ssys. Just try to keep things respectable on the forum, that is all he is asking.

 

[Koz]

Jeep GC...drowning?? Why does it drown?? I thought that Jeep supplies breather tubes for their vehicles...at least on the stock Wranglers.

I will tell that most (if not all) drownings will NOT be covered under warranty for any manufacturer. I seriously doubt that Toyota or Land Rover will cover flooded engine/tranny parts.

Jeep GC's new QD system (ELSD) is supposed to be very good...about as close to a true locker as you get. Ground clearance and breakover angles are crappy, but it's underbody is fairly clean (cleaner than 4runners)...very little sticks below the frame. Therefore, you may scrape a lot, but the vital parts should still be OK. Suspension travel is probably on-par with 4runners. And unlike Toyota, Jeep vehicles can be ordered with rock sliders from the Mopar accessory book along with winches and stronger skidplates. That is one good thing about Jeeps...both aftermarket support and Mopar accessories are impressive.

As for the Xterra's optional transfer case, isn't this also the case on 4runners?? You pay extra for the 4wd 4runner model, don't you?? As for the automatic being optional, this is a plus for many people as you mentioned...and with Xterra being cheaper than 4runner, this should not be an issue (in terms of cost of vehicle). Underbody on the Xterra is fairly clean too. The only bad part is the Frontier suspension parts...aka leaf rear springs. This is why Xterra has such shitty suspension flex! But, it does make it up a little bit with it's optional rear locker.

The GC's alternator is located low on the engine and can not deal with getting wet (shorts and vehicle will die within several hours). Also the brake system picks up small rocks that get lodged between the rotor and caliper and must be removed to continue. Other then that, it is good off-road.

No, the 2 speed transfer case is standard on all 4wd 4Runners. It is optional on 4wd Xterra's. My point was that after you add all the popular options that you would think are standard, the price comes very close to an SR5.

Don't get me wrong, I think the Xterra is a great vehicle. I just don't think it should be rated better then the 4Runner.

Koz

 

[OUTRNNR]

I agree with Dennis. Its one thing to say a vehicle is crappy off road, but another to call their driver's p*ssys. Just try to keep things respectable on the forum, that is all he is asking.

I interpreted wilson's post as "pansy" so maybe now its not so bad

This thread gets the Rene Zellwiger award for Blowing up in the Shortest Amount of Time

 

[Koz]

I like discussing the merits of different vehicles as much as anybody, but many of the posts on this thread make me embarrassed to be driving a 4Runner. "Real" off-road drivers do no indulge in pissing contests on vehicles--especially on stock vehicles.

If you want to drive the trails, just get out there and have fun. Show respect to every vehicle you see, because you never know when the guy pulling you out might be driving a Land Rover Freelander.

Dennis,

No one here was disrespectful. A member gave his opinion on what he thinks of several off-road vehicles and ranked them. Other members felt differently about his opinion and expressed/shared their thoughts/opinion and real world experiences. This is the way members gain more knowledge. I for one would encourage anyone who has any experience or information about any topic that I may write about, that could change my perception or opinion, even if it is completely different from my opinion. That is part of what a forum is exactly about. Also you may need to visit other forums. If you do, you will see that this forum is probably the most civilized one out there, when it comes to debating or disagreeing. If you are embarrassed by some of the members on this forum, you must spend allot of time being embarrassed about just about everything.

Koz

 

[ToyotaDan]

I like discussing the merits of different vehicles as much as anybody, but many of the posts on this thread make me embarrassed to be driving a 4Runner. "Real" off-road drivers do no indulge in pissing contests on vehicles--especially on stock vehicles.

If you want to drive the trails, just get out there and have fun. Show respect to every vehicle you see, because you never know when the guy pulling you out might be driving a Land Rover Freelander.

You need to grow some thicker skin if this discussion embarasses you. In my opinion, reliability of Land Rovers absolutely suck. My friend Steve, whose Land Rover I posted here, regrets buying it. He spent $70k on it, and its in the shop every month. Last time his latch broke, and the hood flew open on the highway.

Also, I am very sure a Land Rover Freelander would not be pulling me out of anywhere. Maybe the defender, but not freelander.

 

[Thai]

The GC's alternator is located low on the engine and can not deal with getting wet (shorts and vehicle will die within several hours). Also the brake system picks up small rocks that get lodged between the rotor and caliper and must be removed to continue. Other then that, it is good off-road.

No, the 2 speed transfer case is standard on all 4wd 4Runners. It is optional on 4wd Xterra's. My point was that after you add all the popular options that you would think are standard, the price comes very close to an SR5.

Don't get me wrong, I think the Xterra is a great vehicle. I just don't think it should be rated better then the 4Runner.

Koz

Koz, small rocks in rotor can happen to any vehicle...it's luck of the draw when off-roading.

I built an Xterra on the internet...i don't see where transfer case is optional on 4x4 Xterra. How can you have 4wd without a transfer case?? Basically, if you select 4x4 model, then the transfer case comes with it. I think that you're confused with the Off-road Package. You can get the Off-road Package on a 2wd or 4wd Xterra...so, it is not exclusive to 4wd models. It's kinda like a TRD package on Tacomas or Z71 package on GM trucks.

 

[Baba Booey]

Land Rovers are turning out to be the "Ry Cooder" of vehicles (at least on my list here)....

About two or three years ago, Rolling Stone magazine put out their list of the Top 100 rock guitar players of all time. I have always been a HUGE Led Zeppelin fan, so I was interested to see whether Jimmy Page would finish second or third behind Jimi Hendrix.

Low and behold, Page finished somewhere around eigth or ninth on the list. I was pissed. To make matters worse, he finished behind some guy named Ry Cooder that I never even heard of in all my life. I went onto some websites (I think Amazon.com was one of them), looked up some Ry Cooder albums, and listened to some of the audio samples. This dude SUCKED! I wouldn't listen to that music if you paid me! I would even go so far as to call him a guitar "pussy"!

The moral of the story is that these kinds of lists usually generate controversy, and no two people will agree on them. It's all in good fun, and I hope I offended no one.

 

[TeryT]

Land Rovers are turning out to be the "Ry Cooder" of vehicles (at least on my list here)....

About two or three years ago, Rolling Stone magazine put out their list of the Top 100 rock guitar players of all time. I have always been a HUGE Led Zeppelin fan, so I was interested to see whether Jimmy Page would finish second or third behind Jimi Hendrix.

Low and behold, Page finished somewhere around eigth or ninth on the list. I was pissed. To make matters worse, he finished behind some guy named Ry Cooder that I never even heard of in all my life. I went onto some websites (I think Amazon.com was one of them), looked up some Ry Cooder albums, and listened to some of the audio samples. This dude SUCKED! I wouldn't listen to that music if you paid me! I would even go so far as to call him a guitar "pussy"!

The moral of the story is that these kinds of lists usually generate controversy, and no two people will agree on them. It's all in good fun, and I hope I offended no one.

Yeah, Page gets placed too low in my opinion too - how did Satriani do?

 

[Baba Booey]

Yeah, Page gets placed too low in my opinion too - how did Satriani do?

Sorry, dude. Satriani didn't make it. Here's the list

Top 100 Guitar Players

But, here is some Ry F'in Cooder for your listening displeasure. Scroll down the page a little and have a listen....

Ry Cooder

 

[Thai]

Ok...let's stay on topic here....

 

[Koz]

Koz, small rocks in rotor can happen to any vehicle...it's luck of the draw when off-roading.

I built an Xterra on the internet...i don't see where transfer case is optional on 4x4 Xterra. How can you have 4wd without a transfer case?? Basically, if you select 4x4 model, then the transfer case comes with it. I think that you're confused with the Off-road Package. You can get the Off-road Package on a 2wd or 4wd Xterra...so, it is not exclusive to 4wd models. It's kinda like a TRD package on Tacomas or Z71 package on GM trucks.

I was with a GC off-roading and it picked-up a rock that was grinding and squeeking. We stopped and cleared it. Within an hour it picked up another one that was so bad that the caliper had to be removed (see pic). By the end of the day it had picked up another that was not that bad but was squeling, yet no other vehicle (including 3 - 4th gen 4Runner) had any problems with rocks. We all traveled the same trails, at the same speed, at the same time.

You can have 4WD without a 2 speed transfer case. If you look at this site you will see that it is optional on 4WD.

http://www.nissanusa.com/vehicles/ModelSpecifications/0,,127081||,00.html

Koz

 

[Thai]

You can have 4WD without a 2 speed transfer case. If you look at this site you will see that it is optional on 4WD.

http://www.nissanusa.com/vehicles/ModelSpecifications/0,,127081||,00.html

Koz

So, are you saying that you can get AWD in an Xterra like RAV4 or Highlander with viscous coupling center diff??

The "Switch-operated 2-speed transfer case" is optional on all models, including Off-road Package...just like 4wd is optional on all 4runners. HOWEVER, Off-road Package does NOT automatically mean 4x4...you can get this package in 2wd Xterras. It's like getting a Z71 package on 2wd Chevy Colorado. It is no longer exclusive to 4wd models.

Use the NISSANUSA.COM site to build an Xterra and you will see what i mean.

 

[Koz]

So, are you saying that you can get AWD in an Xterra like RAV4 or Highlander with viscous coupling center diff??

The "Switch-operated 2-speed transfer case" is optional on all models, including Off-road Package...just like 4wd is optional on all 4runners. HOWEVER, Off-road Package does NOT automatically mean 4x4...you can get this package in 2wd Xterras. It's like getting a Z71 package on 2wd Chevy Colorado. It is no longer exclusive to 4wd models.

Use the NISSANUSA.COM site to build an Xterra and you will see what i mean.

Try it now.

Koz

 

[TeryT]

Sorry, dude. Satriani didn't make it. Here's the list

Top 100 Guitar Players

But, here is some Ry F'in Cooder for your listening displeasure. Scroll down the page a little and have a listen....

Ry Cooder

Hmmm, lists - what can you say!? I think your point is well made, and everyone has opinions that vary (but com-mon - Van Halen at #76 - and no mention of Satriani OR Phil Keaggy!!??) Oh yeah - we're talkin' offroaders - yeah 4Runner team!

 

[Thai]

Try it now.

Koz

Koz, you need to BUILD ONE to see my point! Once you have picked Off-road Package AND 4x4, there is NO OTHER OPTION FOR DRIVETRAIN! This is no different than if you pick Tacoma TRD package and 4x4.

 

[Koz]

Koz, you need to BUILD ONE to see my point! Once you have picked Off-road Package AND 4x4, there is NO OTHER OPTION FOR DRIVETRAIN!

The option is bundled in that package, it is still an option.

Koz

 

[Thai]

The option is bundled in that package, it is still an option.

Koz

Koz, you're losing me...why is that any different than choosing 2wd vs 4wd 4runner?? You said earlier that Xterra comes in 4wd without the transfer case...this is clearly not the case. If you pick 4x4, then you will get the transfer case, just like 4runners.

The Off-road Package is not much more than a suspension upgrade and rear locker...it has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE DRIVETRAIN. Off-road Package = TRD package = Z71 Package, etc..

The problem that you are having is that 4runners do not have an equivalent off-road package like the Xterra. I wish that TRD would come out with a similar package for the 4runner.

BTW, i just built an Xterra Off-road Package 4x4 with nearly every option and it came out to about $30,700. That's a pretty good deal. But in the end, i would still pick the 4runner because Toyota makes better quality trucks than Nissan. Basically, Nissan has only one frame design and uses a cookie cutter to design every SUV on it. I just don't like leaf-springs...rough ride & poor wheel articulation. I also prefer a 4wd system that you can use on dry road. Interior of the Xterra (and Pathfinder) is ultra-cheap and ugly.

 

[Bluto]

... 4runners do not have an equivalent off-road package like the Xterra. I wish that TRD would come out with a similar package for the 4runner.

I made this point in all the buyer surverys when I bought my truck. With the FJ coming out, the 4Runner won't see an offroad package.

The X-terra is a good deal for the $$. But the 4Runner's quality and transfer case is worth any $$ difference.

Adding a rear locker is not a big deal. It's near impossible to upgrade to a full-time transfer case.

 

[Koz]

Koz, you're losing me...why is that any different than choosing 2wd vs 4wd 4runner?? You said earlier that Xterra comes in 4wd without the transfer case...this is clearly not the case. If you pick 4x4, then you will get the transfer case, just like 4runners.

The Off-road Package is not much more than a suspension upgrade and rear locker...it has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE DRIVETRAIN. Off-road Package = TRD package = Z71 Package, etc..

The problem that you are having is that 4runners do not have an equivalent off-road package like the Xterra. I wish that TRD would come out with a similar package for the 4runner.

BTW, i just built an Xterra Off-road Package 4x4 with nearly every option and it came out to about $30,700. That's a pretty good deal. But in the end, i would still pick the 4runner because Toyota makes better quality trucks than Nissan. Basically, Nissan has only one frame design and uses a cookie cutter to design every SUV on it. I just don't like leaf-springs...rough ride & poor wheel articulation. I also prefer a 4wd system that you can use on dry road. Interior of the Xterra (and Pathfinder) is ultra-cheap and ugly.

From what I see, you can get 4WD with or without a 2-speed transfer case. You would still get transfer case but it would not be 2-speed. I may not be seeing this right but by looking at the option list I linked, it looks like the 2-speed is optional with 4WD. Why would they even list the 2-speed transfer case as an option for 4WD if it was part of or standard with 4WD?

Koz