Handgun holster mod in a 4R?

The problems M1911 is saying you assert will happen probably refer to your comment in another post where you worry about what would happen if 18 year olds could get handguns and all the muggings and robberies that would happen with their thugs buddies. WHAT?

An 18 yo punk who wants to stick people up isn't worried if he is going to get caught by the police with an illegal weapon, for crying out loud. He is going to get a gun most likely through illegal process if he's going to use to for a crime. He doesn't wake up and think to himself, "better gun go buy a gun legally so I can use it to commit crimes. Better not get caught at a stick up with an illegal weapon."

Thats the type of non sensical babble that gun control advocates are spouting off. That, and the streets will run red with blood when people start getting CCWs.

The fact is that amongst CCW permit holders crimes statistics are far less, if almost non existent. TX publishes crimes rates amongst permit holders. See for yourself below. Yeah, there are some, but there are bad seeds in every demographic.

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/administration/crime_records/chl/ConvictionRatesReport2009.pdf



Why are you putting words into my mouth?

The problems M1911 is saying you assert will happen probably refer to your comment in another post where you worry about what would happen if 18 year olds could get handguns and all the muggings and robberies that would happen with their thugs buddies. WHAT?


Dude...still waiting on his response, but I re-read my post I made and nowhere in there I said anything about that. If you're referring to the pocket knife scenario, read again. I said I had to make do with a pocketknife as my only form of self defense in case if I was held at gunpoint. There are millions of different scenarios that could take place with handguns being involved, but nowhere in ANY of my posts I said would happen. I'm just merely providing a scenario, nothing more. Like I stated earlier, I agree that if anyone does not feel the urge to go through the legal process of acquiring such weapon, then I'm sure they feel more than obliged to acquire a weapon through other means, i.e. the black market.
 
First of all, who the F said we needed medical professionals to intervene? Please show me where I specifically said we needed medical professionals to weed out the weaklings from applying for a gun permit / CC permit. Just because I said the words 'mental issues' does not automatically mean I'm talking about having the medical occupation involved in the 'screening process' (btw, screening someone certainly does not mean medical professionals are involved in this process, it can be conducted by other people of different occupations that's related to law enforcement, i.e. profilers, etc). Don't put words into my mouth when I didn't say anything about doctors getting involved in the screening process.

Right. So you want someone OTHER than a psychiatrist or psychologist to decide that you have "mental issues" and therefore can't carry concealed?

After Moore's film on 'bowling for columbine', Walmart decided to stop selling handgun ammunition.
You haven't been to a Walmart lately, have you? Oh, and btw, could you define "handgun" ammunition for me? Name a caliber and I can probably find both a rifle and a handgun chambered in that caliber.

I'm not sure about past laws in Columbine regarding ammunition but these kids should have never gotten ammo without showing sufficient proof that they were certified in shooting handguns.
"Certified in shooting handguns?" WTF on you going on about? There is no such legal requirement in 48 of our great states.

Sales of handguns are only available to those that are 21+ here in Virginia.
Nope. Under federal law, an FFL can only sell handguns to 21 or older. But in almost all states, an 18-year-old can buy a handgun from a resident in their state in a private sale.

Once again, with feeling: 18-YEAR-OLDS ARE ALREADY LEGALLY CARRYING CONCEALED IN SEVERAL STATES[B/].

Forth of all, then they shouldn't be carrying concealed at all. There should be a law set in place where they require people with gun permits to complete their qualification requirements every 6 months or something as a positive reinforcement to those that wishes to keep their gun permits by visiting the shooting range often to stay in good shape before qualification day.
I see. So you are comfortable with some bureaucrat deciding that you are not qualified to exercise your 2nd Amendment rights? Would you be comfortable with requiring people to get a license before they could exercise their 1st Amendment rights, and to have to qualify regularly to some criteria made up by some petty bureaucrat?

Again, what are you talking about problems that aren't happening? I still need an answer to the first question regarding problems being asserted by me few lines above.
Come on, dude. Here's what you wrote:

Only because a handgun is SO much easier to carry around with you. Kids that are 18-20 can carry rifles if they want, but as I already said about the handguns...it's a lot harder to carry rifles around on you. So unless you're a hardcore gang banger that lives in Compton, there's no reason for a 18 year old kid to be packing a lot of heat while being outside. I can't imagine the 'stick-ups' they would have with their little thug friends that pushes drugs if they were to have handguns

There are plenty of 18-year-olds legally carrying who are not gang bangers in Compton. Carrying a gun doesn't turn a lawful citizen into a gang banger. You keep saying that 18-year-olds shouldn't be allowed to own or carry a gun. Obviously that is because you think they will do bad things with it. If you didn't think they would do bad things with their gun, then you wouldn't be advocating that it be illegal. So stop being disingenuous.

I carry a gun to protect me and mine. There is no reason that 18-year-olds should not have the very same right to protect themselves and their loved ones.
 
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:iagree:

There it is!

I have to agree with M1911 on everything else, you sound like you're okay with the government telling you how you can own your handgun, how often you need training, and how to buy ammunition. Give them some control, and they'll take it all my friend.

After Moore's film on 'bowling for columbine', Walmart decided to stop selling handgun ammunition.

This could be part of the issue, you're watching Moore's films.

BTW, I've bought handgun ammo at Walmart since Columbine. And I didn't need to show proof of certification either.:wow2:
 
:iagree:
I have to agree with M1911 on everything else, you sound like you're okay with the government telling you how you can own your handgun, how often you need training, and how to buy ammunition. Give them some control, and they'll take it all my friend.

I think that a more stringent system would be beneficial, not only for CCP but for gun ownership in general.

I relate a firearm to a vehicle. Both are tools that have many different uses; and when used inappropriately, can cause death or serious injury. No one complains about the licensing procedure to operate a vehicle. In fact, most people that I have talked to think that the system should be more comprehensive to ensure that new drivers would be better prepared for the possibilities that they face ahead. I think something of the same sort for firearm training would be an improvement on the system we currently have.

With all of that said, it will never happen because of the reason that I put in bold above. For whatever reason, politicians view firearms issues differently that just about any other issue. As soon as they are able to gain some ground in the direction they want, the try to take things to the extreme.
 
:iagree:

Give them some control, and they'll take it all my friend.

Absolutely. Let me give you a couple examples of what happens when you give bureaucrats control.

Here in MA, you must have a License to Carry (LTC) in order to purchase or possess a handgun. The LTC may or may not be a license to carry concealed, depending upon the restrictions that the chief of police in your town decides to put on your license. The chief of police has almost complete discretion in issuing an LTC. As a result, with 350+ cities and towns in MA, we have 350+ different standards for issuing an LTC. Carrying outside of your restriction is a crime, but the chief can put any restriction he wants, and the only definition of what that restriction is what he tells you (and likely he won't put that in writing).

In the city of Boston, before you can get an LTC, you must pass a marksmanship test at the police range, using their revolvers. The test itself isn't that hard for most people, but it does require firing a revolver with one hand, double-action. And this is a medium-framed revolver with a grip that is simply too large for many woman. If you can't shoot that gun, too bad, you don't pass the test and you can't even possess a handgun, let alone carry concealed. I had a student who was a Boston resident. She was getting cancer treatment. She had a .45 that she had owned for many years and that she could shoot well. But she just couldn't fire a double-action revolver (even my 3" Model 60 J-frame), and didn't have the fortitude to take a range test on Moon Island in Boston Harbor in February. As a result, she gave up her LTC and disposed of her guns.

The town that I live in is "liberal" in the old sense -- they generally issue unrestricted licenses to anyone who is not statutorily disqualified. But if I moved west one town, or east two towns, or southwest one town, I'd only get a restricted license that would not allow me to carry, as I could not show a "need" for the license. I've seen the licensing practices in towns change from restrictive, to liberal, and back over time. As an officer at a gun club, I interview many new members, and have heard some remarkable stories.

There are towns that require the applicant to provide 5 letters of recommendation. There are towns that require a letter from a doctor. There is a town where the licensing officer heard that an applicant was complaining on a gun forum about the delay in issuing his license, so he was denied. There are towns that require the recommendation letters to be notarized. There are towns that require a letter from your spouse indicating that they would be comfortable with a gun in the home. There is a city that requires proof of citizenship, but won't accept a passport as that proof (yes, really). There is a town that requires that applicants run around to various town departments to get proof that they don't owe the town any money.

These are the types of abuses that occur when you give petty bureaucrats unfettered power. And when the right we are talking about is a right enshrined in the US Constitution, a right that "shall not be infringed," this simply is not acceptable.
 
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VA,
Appreciate your feedback. It's a hot topic and I'll always wonder why some folks feel like they have to carry a piece everytime they go somewhere. When I worked in CT (where I had a CCP) I would pack a Walther PPK since Hartford had some seedy areas where the restaurants were located.

I'll always wonder why otherwise intelligent people think that crime only occurs in "areas" and at night. Until criminals start notifying their victims in advance I'll be carrying everywhere.
 
Second of all, granted that you can buy illegal guns by using the black market. Good for the ban on handguns to those that are 18+! That just means they need to try harder to find people who are willing to sell guns to them illegally, and chances are they'll have a tough time finding illegal guns. Also, despite the fact they (columbine shooters) bought illegal guns....guess who sold the AMMO needed to execute innocent people? Walmart. After Moore's film on 'bowling for columbine', Walmart decided to stop selling handgun ammunition. I'm not sure about past laws in Columbine regarding ammunition but these kids should have never gotten ammo without showing sufficient proof that they were certified in shooting handguns. But then it's Walmart we're talking about here. They aren't gun professionals or an organization under the eyes of gun control watchdog group (if there's one) so if they see an official form of ID then they will complete the sales transaction and sell the kids bullets. One of them was 18 so obviously that person was able to purchase ammo without having to show proof that they have a legal gun.

Again, here in Virginia an 18 year old can buy a handgun privately. Legally. There is no epidemic of 18 year old gun-toting serial murderers. I know plenty of people in their forties that I wouldn't trust with a sharpened pencil, and I've worked with 18 year olds that I have literally trusted with my life. 21 is not a magic number.
And as far as illegal guns go, there are plenty just north in DC.


Forth of all, then they shouldn't be carrying concealed at all. There should be a law set in place where they require people with gun permits to complete their qualification requirements every 6 months or something as a positive reinforcement to those that wishes to keep their gun permits by visiting the shooting range often to stay in good shape before qualification day. Again, what are you talking about problems that aren't happening? I still need an answer to the first question regarding problems being asserted by me few lines above.

Before you go reflexively passing laws that you're convinced we should all live by, you need to prove that there is a need for yet another law. You're saying that people without significant training shouldn't be carrying concealed, but you've yet to even hint at why that is, let alone convince anyone. Do people make better ethical decisions because of training? Do they become less likely to lose their temper or use violence or the threat of violence to settle arguments? What events have taken place that have you so convinced that the government has to mandate stringent training requirements?


Fifth of all, absolutely. There is only one way to stop them and that is having a person with a concealed permit being available to protect innocent citizens by being there at the right place at the right time. I have no idea, statistically speaking, on how many people carry a concealed gun on them at all times in public places so if a massacre should take place (which I definitely do not wish to take place), then we all better hope there's someone with a concealed gun that will step up to the plate and handle things from there. If not, hopefully everybody will be able to hide in places & wait for law enforcement to respond to the incident where they neutralize the suspect & come to the rescue of those hiding from the gunman(s).

This is why we train, and this is why we carry.
Everywhere.


Sixth, that is great that you're overqualified with your training where you are clearly capable of handling such gun whether it's a handgun or a rifle. As you said earlier, police usually fire their handguns during qualifications. I was reading about an article a long time ago, and this officer who retired stated that he had never shot his gun more than two times throughout his 25 years of law enforcement so obviously it is very rare for officers to engage in incidents that includes shots being exchanged back and forth between officers and shooter(s). I do think officers should be proactive and try to visit the shooting range when they're off duty so they can keep their shooting skills in tip top shape. However, we all know they have second jobs if they're part time officers, or they have families/lives to handle so it can be difficult to take time out of their lives to take a trip down to the shooting range & on working on their shooting skills.

No such thing as "overqualified". Police officers are notoriously bad shots (most, not all). So if you're okay with police officers going to the range twice a year when they're ACTIVELY looking for trouble twelve hours a day, you should be fine with granny not going at all if all she wants to do is get from her car to her house without being mugged. Sure, police officers should all be IDPA shooters and master tacticians, but they're not. And shockingly, the government does NOTHING about this! Where's the outrage?

Lastly, I was talking about a Utopia where the world is a perfect place with laws that everyone agrees on. No laws will ever be perfect when it comes to guns, and the world will NEVER become a perfect place for everybody to live in because we have greedy people that's looking out for their companies', families, or their own interests rather than the society in general.

It is in society's best interests to not pass laws without proven cause. People lose respect for government and for the laws themselves when there are so many laws that even the police don't know them all, and the laws don't have an immediately apparent benefit to society. Right now there are twenty year old kids that have been in combat units for TWO YEARS, who at a moment's notice can call in millions of dollars worth of ordnance and turn a significant piece of real estate into a smoking crater. Your assertion that 18 year olds can't responsibly handle a concealed firearm is baseless.
 
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Man you people are just annoying. I opened this thread for possibly some great ideas, and instead I get more debate. If you don't like it, move along and quit complaining. STFU and get your own thread. Now lets get back on topic, I was thinking more of a holster inside the center console, because the ones outside the console I think are too risky for people passing by and seeing your gun up for grabs. When I do carry, I keep it in my glove compartment locked. But still, not very "secure." Maybe ill try bolting a blackhawk holster like the guy with the glock did, inside the console. Any ideas?

Chris
 
Pistol Box

I was contemplating the same question a while ago, and the only pistol box I found that *might* work in the center console was this one:

Fort Knox Auto Pistol Box - The Safe Place

It was the only one I found that seemed like it might fit in the center console (they claim dimensions of 6'' deep x 5'' wide x 9.5'' long), but it would pretty much fill up the whole console. Some things I thought were a plus: (1) size, obviously, since it might fit in the center console with the lid closed, and (2) top-loading, unlike some of the other compact pistol safes that had a clam-shell design.

You would probably have to custom fab some method of securing it through the bottom of the plastic console. I haven't pulled the console to see what's underneath it to see if there is a potential anchor point. At the very least you'd probably have to to mod the plastic console bin itself.

If anyone has access to one of these it would be nice to know for sure that it fits in the console without interference from the armrest hinges and that you can open the lid while the armrest lid is also open.

(BTW, I couldn't find info on Fort Knox's site that was very helpful. The link above is apparently to one of their dealers).
 
Chris: sorry, I can't help you on that. I keep mine holstered on my belt or in my pocket holster while driving.
 
Man you people are just annoying. I opened this thread for possibly some great ideas, and instead I get more debate. If you don't like it, move along and quit complaining. STFU and get your own thread. Now lets get back on topic, I was thinking more of a holster inside the center console, because the ones outside the console I think are too risky for people passing by and seeing your gun up for grabs. When I do carry, I keep it in my glove compartment locked. But still, not very "secure." Maybe ill try bolting a blackhawk holster like the guy with the glock did, inside the console. Any ideas?

Chris


That was my plan and still is. I wanted to install a bracket inside the center console compartment on the left side that's next to the seat belt (bracket installed inside right next to the belt outside of the console). I also wanted to bolt a gun safe to the floor under the drivers seat. GL with the mod if you go forward, I'm holding mine off for now.
 
4b41aa5c-1ee5-8fcd.jpg
4b41aa5c-1eef-f9f8.jpg
Jus notice y'all talking about a holster inside the console!!
Have y'all seen these guys?
 

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