HD, 5100 & 5160 Bilstein Valve Rates

[empty403]

I just spoke with the Bilstein Aftermarket department on the valving rates on their line of shocks for the T4R. (Rebound/Comression)
HD
Front: 2045/1410 (Can be used with Lift Spacers)
Rear: 1280/1050 (No lift)
5100
Front: 3040/880 (Adjustable Height via Spring Perch/Seat)
Rear: 1280/1050 (0 - 2" of lift)
5160
Rear Only: 1405/945 (0 - 2.5" of lift)

As you can see the 5100 front requires different valving (compared to the HD). Compressing the spring will need a slower rebound and a faster compression. This is because the compressed spring will be working with the rebound and working against the compression. The HD and 5100 rear are the same so you can save a small amount of money by not purchasing the 5100, unless you raise the rear or want the same look as the front (the shock is barely visible, though). The 5160 has more rebound and less Compression.

I currently have the 5100 setup and I find the rear movement does not match the front. The rear has a noticeable bounce, that is, not enough rebound on low speed suspension movements (smooth bumps). High speed suspension movements, sharp bumps, the 5100s are good (search low speed and high speed damping). I plan on getting the 5160s. I only have 4000miles on the 5100s and with the price being more than double of the 5100 and a small difference in numbers, I'm not sure if it will be worth it. Maybe the reservoirs will be worth it if get enough ooos and ahhs, from people crawling underneath to see them! Give me a few months to save enough cash and I'll update the difference with the 5160.

 

[gm350reratliff]

Good info! Thanks for posting. Whatever the numbers say, it's a lot better than Toyota had it! For what its worth, I feel my setup is just a touch softer in the rear than the front. Not a big deal. It may be just me.

 

[message]

I wonder how this compares to the ICON or bilstein 5125 rear shocks? I know toytec lift kits offer different options for rear shocks when pairing them with the 5100s up front.

 

[message]

bump for more discussion since I'd like to know

 

[techmen17]

Interesting stuff, so your saying that you think the rear is not "firm" enough at lower speeds?? Would the addition of some rear coils, like ome or icon solve that??

 

[pearlj10]

I just installed Bilstein 5100s on the rear of my 4R to match the ride quality of the front Bilstein 5100s and stock coils. I'm running the Toytec 2.0RCC rear coils and when I hit speed bumps between 20-25 mph it feels like the shock is topping out. I live the ride quality otherwise, although the rear shock is a bit soft. Anyone have any suggestions?

 

[empty403]

I believe using a softer spring rate in the rear should fix the issue. Trouble is, I do not know what the spring rate is on the factory and I haven't found any manufacturer that lists the spring rate on their springs. I would like to do this since I am currently using Firestone Ride Rites so if I ever load the vehicle I can compensate for the softer spring - best of both worlds.

 

[message]

Can anyone comment on their experience with 5100s paired with FJ springs and if this is a better combination for the rear?
Also wondering if air bags would have any added benefits when running 5100s in the rear versus going to the 5160s?

 

[empty403]

Also wondering if air bags would have any added benefits when running 5100s in the rear versus going to the 5160s?

Airbags make the bouncing worse, that is if you follow the directions to have a minimum of 5psi in the bags. I leave it at 0psi because it's too bouncy for me. If the rear is weighted - passengers, towing etc the 5100s are great. I'm still not sure the 5160s will cure the slight bounce.

 

[message]

I'm now wondering what to do... I got a set of FJ springs and was planning on a set of 5100s all around, but I'm second guessing the setup now.

 

[ARK_SWAMP_RIDER]

Did any of you guys try out the 5160's? I've got 5100 fronts with FJ coils, but stock rear suspension. I'm having poor ride quality now (just in the rear, love the front) and want to make sure I get something better when I do the swap.

 

[message]

I have not switched over from my stock SR5 suspension yet.
That is next on the list of mods for me since I have FJ springs ready to go, just need to get shocks.
Re-reading this thread makes me wonder about going to a different shock in the rear for sure.

 

[stanleybb50]

Just curious if any updates to this?

 

[ARK_SWAMP_RIDER]

I spoke with empty403 not long ago. He said the 5100's got better after putting some miles on them. I've not yet found anyone with a 4runner (after a ton of searching) that has tried the 5160's. I've even searched for FJ or Tacoma owners who've tried them, no luck there either. Based on the reviews I've read from other places, they seem to be a big improvement over the 5100 rears. However, I'm not quite sure they're worth twice as much.
Wrangler JK Bilstein Shocks Upgrade - Four Wheeler Magazine
Bilstein 5160 Shock Installation on Jeep JK : Off-Road.com

 

[stanleybb50]

I might try those 5160's in the back with FJ springs. Seems those compression rates would suit the firmer FJ's well/better?

*edit. What are anyones thoughts on getting Moog OEM replacement ''new'' coils (made for FJ) instead of having to rely on used (potentially abused) coils from the FJ forum? The Moog rear replacements are only $51 I noticed on rockauto.com. Thoughts?


- Sent via Tapatalk for Android

 

[ARK_SWAMP_RIDER]

If I were going too spend over $100 on rear coils, I would spend just a little more and get Toytec superflex coils. They'll work better with the 5160s, but you may not be looking for that much lift (2").

 

[message]

I have been holding off on ordering a set of bilsteins to go with my FJ springs due to this very discussion thread. I've also been looking into ICON and other to see what's available, but that gets quickly out of my price range.

Anyone know if it's possible to fit the bilstein 5150s in a 4th gen? I see where some guys run them on their 3rd gens and there are adapter kids for them.

 

[stanleybb50]

I'm gonna throw this one out there and see if it sticks as well...

If Bilstein valves their shocks to each vehicle based on the stiffness of the springs, then, by conclusion, can we expect that the HD's and/or 5100's that were "made for" the FJ should have a softer compression and a heavier rebound due to the stiffer springs the FJ uses?

I may even call Bilstein on this and ask if they can provide the valving specs for the FJ Bilsteins (which I belive will bolt right into our T4R's as well). Thinking that the FJ-made 5100's would give a "softer" ride, whether using stock coils or FJ coils in our 4R's.

Thoughts? I love the concept of this thread. It's providing real numbers, rather than just the "butt feel" of each shock. In fact, I wish I had more time in my life... I'd get on the horn and start calling shock manufacturers and get all the valving rates and post up a thread giving the valve rates like the Op did here for as many shocks as I could find. (Just a dream...) Here's a proposition: when I hit the lottery, I'll make this one of my first acts as a Millionaire! haha

 

[ARK_SWAMP_RIDER]

Would be great to have that info. I can save you some trouble, bilstein, along with most stock manufacturers, use the same part number shocks for the fj and 4runner, valving is the same.

 

[message]

Per the application chart http://www.bilsteinus.com/uploads/tx_templavoila/Bil_OffRd_Cat2011.pdf I'm seeing no difference between 03-09 4runners and FJs. Also note these are the new part numbers from Bilstein not the old that many online retailers are still using. For a part number cross reference see this spreadsheet. http://www.bilsteinus.com/fileadmin...lstein_part_change_cross_reference-121710.xls

I've also read that Tacoma shocks should work. They run the same front shock but a different rear shock for both the 5100 and 5160. However I would be hesitant to use them as they are shorter as you can see below.
Unfortunately I could not find the valving specs for the rear 5100 and 5160.

03-09 4runner
5100 Front 24-186711
5100 Rear 33-187174, Col length - 14.91, Ext length - 23.50
5160 Rear Only 25-177909, Col length - 14.80, Ext Length - 23.60
07-09 FJ
5100 Front 24-186711
5100 Rear 33-187174, Col length - 14.91, Ext length - 23.50
5160 Rear Only 25-177909, Col length - 14.80, Ext Length - 23.60
05-11 Tacoma
5100 Front 24-186711
5100 Rear 24-186728, Col length - 14.02, Ext length - 22.94
5160 Rear Only 25-177343, Col length - 13.84, Ext length - 23.23

Now here is what may be a better option... The 5125 series universal shocks come in a variety of lengths and valving. I'm seeing the following models that would likely work for the 4runner. Also the 5150s come in nearly the same models except they have the external reservoir.
Now depending on what is used for a rear spacer if any I think all three of these could work.

Universal 5125
5125 8.5" Rear 33-185606, Col Length - 14.06, Ext Length - 22.5, Valving - 255/70
5125 9.0" Rear 33-186542, Col Length - 15.11, Ext Length - 24.35, Valving - 255/70
5125 10" Rear 33-185842, Col Length - 15.91, Ext Length - 25.93, Valving - 175/60

Also ran across this nice article explaining how lift shocks are better for ride and suspension travel versus spacers.
http://www.bilsteinus.com/fileadmin/user_upload/user_upload_us/pdfs/Bil_LevShks_WebArticle.pdf