Head Gasket Kaput: Sacramento Area

[Pelirow]

Chemical Block Test was done on my '97 Runner with 241k miles and came back positive.

I like the guys I go to, TOS Toyota, but wanted to ask if y'all thought their labor quote was fair for the head gasket job:

They quoted me $1,446.75 for labor, which according to the estimate includes:

"Install Cylinder head
Gaskets: includes spark plugs, thermostat, oil, oil filter, coolant, knock sensor wire, Distributor O Ring, Valve Shim
Set timing and Idle Speed

Advise on Head condition."

I was warned that if the cylinder heads were bad as well, then that would go for another $700 per head- forgot to ask if that was parts plus labor or just parts.

They also had pressure test and resurfacing of cylinder heads for $330. The resurfacing is outsourced to a machine shop.

Parts came to around $660 and total labor would be around $1,676 ($100 discount on labor... yay...) for a grand total of close to $2,400 with tax.

I asked for information about the labor and was told that it would be about 13 hours of work, and that their labor rate is taken from the "Labor Guide Time Rates" which I have no clue what it is.

I talked to a buddy who used to be a mechanic and he suggested I also consider looking for a certified used motor if I'm already willing to spend $2,400. He thought $2,400 was only worth it if it was a "full and total" rebuild, which it doesn't appear to be.

Anyone in the Sac area have recommendations for where I could look for motors?

My personal preference is to do the work, but I'm quite under-qualified. I'd love to learn the work though. If there are any of you in the Sac area who feel confident and willing that they could help out with a head gasket repair and teach a newbie in the process, feel free to PM me because I'd love to throw a wrenching party. Beer and food on me, and a couple benjamins would probably mysteriously find their way into your wallet...

 

[4RunnerKyle]

Venus motors or try to find a junkyard and pull the entire drivetrain?.....

 

[Pelirow]

Venus motors or try to find a junkyard and pull the entire drivetrain?.....

I tried Venus, they had nothing. Not many other places in the Sac area and nothing seems worthwhile in the Bay area.

A place called Attarco has rebuilt engines with resurfaced heads available for $1,595 and for $2,500 with new heads.

TOYOTA TACOMA 5VZ 3.4L REBUILT ENGINE (1995-2004) | Attarco | Used and Rebuilt Engines & Transmissions California

Has anyone in NorCal/Bay Area ever done business with Attarco?

The reviews on Yelp and the BBB are somewhat disturbing, although my phone call to them was relatively pleasant and I deliberately asked some annoying questions. The dude I talked to, Richard, was nothing but polite, patient, and informative.

 

[kolelt]

Wow that is insane price. Here in nj I got a jdm motor with less then 60k for 1500$ if I was to fix my head gasket its about 100 for gasket and 100$ per head to resurface.

 

[SCRunner12]

Yeah those prices are high. I would check out some of the local parts yards up by you. I know Rancho Cordova has a ton of 4runner's and you could find a lower price one to drop in. You never know how they are going to be, but you can see if the places have a warranty.

 

[Pelirow]

Wow that is insane price. Here in nj I got a jdm motor with less then 60k for 1500$ if I was to fix my head gasket its about 100 for gasket and 100$ per head to resurface.

By insane, do you mean ridiculous?

The head gasket set is OEM part 04112-62071 in the estimate. The estimate price lists 453 bucks, but I've found the set for 339 at Camelback Toyota. I asked about the price and was told that "head gasket set" price is more than just the OEM part listed and it was 343 for that exact OEM number part and the rest of the cost is for "20-30 additional gaskets" that will be needed. All the other prices quoted are also above the prices I can find at Camelback, but I don't know if they also include "extras."

The 330 for resurfacing is for both heads, and pressure test, so I guess 165ish per head plus test? Still high?

All labor prices they said were from "Labor Guide Time Rates" so I don't know if they're fair are not. I just know they're highly regarded people and I've been comfortable with their work in the past, but never had a job this big to bring to them.

I will try to ask around at other mechs to get prices and rates and see what's up.

 

[Pelirow]

Yeah those prices are high. I would check out some of the local parts yards up by you. I know Rancho Cordova has a ton of 4runner's and you could find a lower price one to drop in. You never know how they are going to be, but you can see if the places have a warranty.

I checked the Rancho parts people, and the only engine I could find so far was a '97 with 89k miles on it for $1,100. Sounds great, except it's in long block form. I've found rebuilt long blocks in my area for 1,500ish from Attarco, but I'm concerned about their quality based on complaints on Yelp and BBB.

I would still need a mechanic to help turn the long block into a complete engine and swap, since I'm not capable of doing any of that on my own and I haven't heard anything yet from Sac area T4R people willing to help out with wrenching. I may be able to manage a complete swap on my own though if I don't have to do long block assembly.

TOS Toyota also gave me their labor rates for either a complete engine swap or a long block swap:

$1,900 dollars for complete engine swap, Labor Guide Time rates for 16.5 hours of work.

Long Block assembly and swap is $2,500 for 21 hours.

Would really love to hear from Sac area T4R folks, at least with mechanic recommendations if not wrenching help! :sadwave::help:

T4R.org has the coolest emoticons ever...

 

[mizzle415]

This shop is down in SF, but has a great reputation. I heard the owner was lead mechanic at SF Toyota for many years.

My buddy had the timing belt in his 2004 Tacoma done here earlier this year for about $400 total, but they didn't do water pump stating that they inspected the bearings and they were not worn.

Toy Shop - Inner Richmond - San Francisco, CA

BTW. I have no personal experience with this shop.

Sorry this isn't a Sac recommendation, but thought it might be an option.

 

[BrianSD_42]

Lots of options.

You can buy a complete aftermarket JE head w/ warranty for $550 each plus shopping. Gasket kits from Camelback $340 each like you mentioned. Then about $1000 in labor unless you do it yourself.

Buying a used engine (not rebuilt) is probably the best bet for < $2000 out the door and you would get an engine with < 100k miles.

 

[Pelirow]

Thanks Mizzle, BrianSD, for the information. Every tidbit I can get is appreciated.

I'll definitely give Toy Shop a call.

BrianSD- I can't find these JE heads you're talking about online, could you give me a link to check out? I can't seem to find anything other than a company called JE pistons (jepistons.com) and nothing about that company making cylinder heads. Is it something you have to call them about?

 

[magikbean562]

i thought i had a head gasket issue when my truck started to over heat one day. my mechanic tested the fluid and it came back positive for ****ed hg. he did a complete radiator swap ( i already had a radiator ready to go to avoid the pink milkshake), changed thermo, and obviously changed fluid. ran test again and it came back negative. the contaminants in the old fluid gave the false positive. at 250+k miles, i wouldnt be shocked its the head, but you never know. as for me, id get a JDM or salvaged truck engine with like at least a 90 day warranty. best of luck

 

[Pelirow]

i thought i had a head gasket issue when my truck started to over heat one day. my mechanic tested the fluid and it came back positive for ****ed hg. he did a complete radiator swap ( i already had a radiator ready to go to avoid the pink milkshake), changed thermo, and obviously changed fluid. ran test again and it came back negative. the contaminants in the old fluid gave the false positive. at 250+k miles, i wouldnt be shocked its the head, but you never know. as for me, id get a JDM or salvaged truck engine with like at least a 90 day warranty. best of luck

Thanks for the advice.

I haven't been getting any overheating warnings at all. I've lost 2/3rds a gallon of coolant over the span of a month. I have noticed some fluid in my exhaust pipe the last time I checked that could be coolant (seems odorless though) and was giving off light smoke or steam. Like you said, my rig has 240k miles.

I have been planning to replace the radiator, and there was noticeable sludge in the coolant reservoir that could be contaminants. Anyone see any drawbacks in trying to put in a new radiator then get another chemical block test other than money?

Seems I'd be banking on a prayer and I'd waste 20 bucks of coolant and 58 for the second chemical block test just to to confirm. Of course, I'd be saving a couple thou if it actually comes back negative the second time...

At this point, I'm leaning towards a swap with a used (complete) engine- still looking around at my options of where to buy, then where to have it put in. Again, if anyone has suggestions for where to look for an engine in NorCal, I'm interested.

 

[BrianSD_42]

Did you do a compression test?

 

[4RunnerKyle]

No he didn't

Did you do a compression test?

 

[Pelirow]

Did you do a compression test?

What Kyle said. I was told by TOS Toyota that the chemical block test would be much more accurate in detecting if it was a head gasket issue, and if so, that the compression test would not be needed...

 

[kolelt]

You can't find a jdm motor?

 

[Pelirow]

UPDATE:

I found a used complete engine for $1,400 with 89k miles on it, $1,100 of I return the core. Not bad. Picking it up tomorrow, stashing it in the garage, then figuring out how the heck I'm gonna do the swap!

Anyone in the NorCal or Bay area who would be up for helping with an engine swap?

You can't find a jdm motor?

Couldn't find any at the places around me, no. Called a bunch of different places and they were all out of stock. Only ones I could find were online for about $1,300-$1,400 plus shipping and I probably wouldn't have been able to inspect them.

I was able to inspect the motor I referenced above and couldn't see anything externally worrying other than that the timing belt was off as was one of timing belt wheels, but I planned to replace the belt and swap over my current alternator anyway.

The motor also comes with a 6 month warranty, not great but worthwhile.

 

[vipergrhd]

just my 2 cents

UPDATE:

I found a used complete engine for $1,400 with 89k miles on it, $1,100 of I return the core. Not bad. Picking it up tomorrow, stashing it in the garage, then figuring out how the heck I'm gonna do the swap!

Anyone in the NorCal or Bay area who would be up for helping with an engine swap?





Couldn't find any at the places around me, no. Called a bunch of different places and they were all out of stock. Only ones I could find were online for about $1,300-$1,400 plus shipping and I probably wouldn't have been able to inspect them.

I was able to inspect the motor I referenced above and couldn't see anything externally worrying other than that the timing belt was off as was one of timing belt wheels, but I planned to replace the belt and swap over my current alternator anyway.

The motor also comes with a 6 month warranty, not great but worthwhile.

That is a good price for a used engine and can't beat the 6 mos. warranty it's about the same here in the bay area.My advice would be is for you to bench test the used engine and make sure you got a decent compression on that engine also reseal the engine if the compression looks good drop the oil pan and make sure nothing is coming apart in your replacement engine. Good luck in your engine swap i just finished mine a couple weeks ago.here is some teaser pics to get your butt in gear.LOL

 

[vipergrhd]

One more

Here is the finished product it took 2 weekends to finish everything.Glad it was done now i need a suspension lift.

 

[Pelirow]

That is a good price for a used engine and can't beat the 6 mos. warranty it's about the same here in the bay area.My advice would be is for you to bench test the used engine and make sure you got a decent compression on that engine also reseal the engine if the compression looks good drop the oil pan and make sure nothing is coming apart in your replacement engine. Good luck in your engine swap i just finished mine a couple weeks ago.here is some teaser pics to get your butt in gear.LOL

Heh, that's some paint scheme you got going there!

Yeah, the guys at the place I got the motor seem sincere about what they do. I asked for a leak down and compression test and they said "no problem."

They did the leak down test today after I confirmed I wanted the motor and they said it came back with "10% leakdown, which is really good."

Compression test is scheduled for tomorrow morning before I pick up it up.

what do you mean about "reseal" the engine? Replace all seals?

I'll take off the oil pan and see what monsters crawl out, thanks for the suggestion.

Lastly, what length of chain did you use to wrap around the motor to yank and place? I'm finding 15 or 25 foot chains that seem to be more than I need. Any suggestions for where/how to wrap the chain on the motor?

Thanks for the extra motivation, as if I didn't have enough of that! I so badly want to learn more about wrenching that I've pretty much decided I'll do the swap even though I'm a big time novice at this. Hopefully I'll get lucky and find people willing to come to my place and help out, but I at least know I can ask a ton of stupid questions here on the forums and get advice.

Thanks to my current circumstances, I have AMPLE time to do plenty of research and work deliberately as I go. Of course, if I have any doubt as to how to do something properly: :smash: