Help, I need a come to Jesus talk...

[Aerostone]

I bought a $41k car (with all options) and walked out with it for $38k because of three things:

1) Did alot of research online, including using my bank online to give me their estimates on what I should pay. Printed all the info out because the bank also sends it directly to the dealerships near me so they know that they can't overcharge

2) Brought my pre-approval loan letter indicating I was serious in buying and had the check ready, and

3) I was ready to walk out if I didn't get a good deal and move to the next Toyota dealership. I actually had the other Toyota dealership on the phone telling them what I was being offered and if they can beat it. This became the main reason why I was offered that price in the end.

You HAVE to be ready to walk out and play the game: put the dealerships against each other. It's a business and they all know it. When I walked out with the keys, the manager said, "You really worked us out." I was also there for 4 hours because they wouldn't let me walk out.

Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[volrus7]

Dont' forget resale value. If history continues to paint the story of the future, that Exploder after 10 years will be worth nothing, where as the 4R will still have good value left in it. It may only be a small difference for new, but you'll see a big difference at the end when it's time to upgrade again.

I'm not so sure that history will continue to paint the story of the future. It might, but it's not so cut and dry any more. Not saying T4R doesn't hold it's value great. A little bit of proof is in what has happened with the resale values of Honda Accord and Toyota Camry (the traditional bread winners of resale) and the new model Ford Fusion. People are now pointing to the Ford Fusion when it comes to resale value vs. the historical big 2.

 

[2010TE4Runner]

The loose steering feel was gone once I replaced my factory dunlops with BFG AT's. The explorer WILL be worth alot less in 10 yrs then the 4Runner. Just look at ebay auto. Look up 2005 4Runner and 2005 Explorer.

 

[MAD827]

I just went through the same decision that you are dealing with (T4R vs. All other SUVs). I picked up my 5th Gen T4R SR5 last Thursday and I can't remember the last time I loved a vehicle this much. I don't plan on doing any rock crawling, mostly for snow and some trail driving when we camp, when I test drove the T4R I felt like I was driving a truck that can handle just about anything you throw at it, it gave me the feel and confidence that I was looking for, I didn't get the same feeling out of the Explorer. If you are looking for luxury, comfort, technology and leather points then the Explorer might be the way to go. I wanted something tough, reliable, gas it up and go, and not worry about breaking down. T4R won hands down.

When I see 10 year old Explorer on the road they look beaten down and worn out, I notice 10 year old T4R on the road and can't tell they even broke the 100K mark. It's a tough decision (trust me I know) so best of luck to you.

 

[Quentin]

I'm not so sure that history will continue to paint the story of the future. It might, but it's not so cut and dry any more. Not saying T4R doesn't hold it's value great. A little bit of proof is in what has happened with the resale values of Honda Accord and Toyota Camry (the traditional bread winners of resale) and the new model Ford Fusion. People are now pointing to the Ford Fusion when it comes to resale value vs. the historical big 2.

And right after Mike Rowe says his piece about the Fusion being projected to hold its value better, a screen pops up saying "Get an additional $2000 customer cash back on Fusion!" Nothing kills resale like cash on the hood for new ones.

Now, Ford has definitely improved their products to be competitive, but I've not seen any evidence that they will hold up in the long term. They've at least gotten away from puking out transmission in under 40k miles.

 

[adoihcj]

By the sounds of it, you should be in the Explorer. Even though I really like the new Explorer, I will NEVER own one again. I tried to find the link to a post about my 2003 Eddie Bauer and all the problems I had with it. Here's what I can tell you about my experience:

All four wheel bearings replaced
Struts replaced
Transfer case replaced
Alternator replaced
Parking shoe replaced
Rear liftgate hinges replaced (recall)
Transmission went - traded in on the 4R

The Explorer felt like new for about the first six months - then it started feeling like a POS. I owned several Ford vehicles and always had issues with them.

I did a quick comparison for you on KBB.com. I took a 2003 Explorer Limited vs a 2003 4R Limited with identical features/options and 100,000 miles using the trade-in value option. Here's what they are worth in my area:

Explorer - $8,175
4R - $13,825

We're talking almost a $6,000 difference between the Explorer and 4R. And, the $8,175 for the Explorer doesn't take into account all of the money you will put into it with repairs.

Best of luck to you.

 

[westwind77]

.....Mike Rowe says his piece about the Fusion being projected to hold its value better.....

I laugh every time I see those commercials! I would buy one IF the dealership agreed to sign a document saying they would pay me the same as a comp. equipped Camery whenever I wanted to trade it in. I would even let them include a clause saying if it is worth more they could keep the difference. I have a feeling they would laugh just as hard as I do at their commercial.

I project that I will be President in the next 12 years, who wants to contribute to my campaign now?

 

[LUVDA4RUNNER]

I found a dealer in KC around 250 miles away. They are giving a online (overstock) quote of $38.6K for the same 4Runner my dealership is offering for $40K. Do you think I can use this along w/the Ford explorer price to get the local Toyota Dealership down some more??? If I can get either a good deal on my trade in (that I should have equity in) or a little more off on the 4Runner I plan to go with it for many of the reason you have mentioned above.

 

[LUVDA4RUNNER]

I hate working with car salesman. I have been quoted invoice pricing over the phone. I go today to workout a deal. They offer may $2500 less for my trade in than KBB or NADA value it at. And my car is pristine. Then the guy now tells me he will sell me the 4Runner for 1K over invoice. Tells me there is no way he can do invoice. He thinks he can work out a better price on my trade in, but not what I was hoping for. I just left. Told him I was not sure what I wanted to do and that I was going to look at the Ford again. Not sure what to do now. Guess I will wait to see if he calls me back or not. I was offered $1500 more by the same dealership for my vehicle 3000 miles ago?

 

[07SalsaSportEd]

dont get the explorer...ive had 3 prior to my 4runner and all 3 had a slew of issues, most recently a transmission at 90,000 miles on a 2007. They are good looking trucks, but junk.

 

[SeattleMike]

I hate working with car salesman. I have been quoted invoice pricing over the phone. I go today to workout a deal. They offer may $2500 less for my trade in than KBB or NADA value it at. And my car is pristine. Then the guy now tells me he will sell me the 4Runner for 1K over invoice. Tells me there is no way he can do invoice. He thinks he can work out a better price on my trade in, but not what I was hoping for. I just left. Told him I was not sure what I wanted to do and that I was going to look at the Ford again. Not sure what to do now. Guess I will wait to see if he calls me back or not. I was offered $1500 more by the same dealership for my vehicle 3000 miles ago?

Walking away was the right thing to do.

Next time, negotiate the price of the new vehicle first. Once that is settled, then you can bring up your trade-in and haggle over that. NEVER combine the two in negotiations. If they try and BS you, walk away. If they try and add on costs, walk away. If they try and switch you into another vehicle, walk away. They need to sell a car far more than you need to buy one, capice?

 

[Aerostone]

I hear ya man. I was in your shoes just a month ago when I bought my 2011. I had my 2005 Ford Mustang completely paid off and was in excellent condition. They were quoting me $2000 below Kelly's, which is not surprising because dealerships will always be undervalue at an average of $2k. I said no to the trade-in and still bought the 4Runner because they offered me a total savings savings of $4,050, so it was a win-win situation.

Again, as I suggested, be ready to walk out and be confident. Knowing exactly what you should get it for is key.

 

[LUVDA4RUNNER]

Do you guys think the dealership will get back to me? There is another Toyota dealership about 35 miles away from me. I may contact them and see if they can give me a better deal.
So, as it stands they are offering me a 2011 Limited 4WD 4runner, black w/beige interior, 3rd row, and nav w/floor mats for $41K.

They are offering me $20K for my 2008 Pathfinder 4x4 SE w/37,000 miles. I owe $21K, so I will not do this. My PF is in excellent condition and KBB and NADA say it is worth about $21,500-22,500.

I am waiting to here from them to see if they change their offer. Salesman made it sound as if they would at least pay off my car for $21K. I would like to get this plus and additional $500 off the vehicle.

Do you guys thing $1500 too much that the dealership would let me walk?

I really enjoyed driving the vehicle. Very nice. I found the steering okay. The floating center on the speedometer makes my eyes cross, but I can do. I will give them a few days, if not I will try the other dealership.

 

[LUVDA4RUNNER]

Walking away was the right thing to do.

Next time, negotiate the price of the new vehicle first. Once that is settled, then you can bring up your trade-in and haggle over that. NEVER combine the two in negotiations. If they try and BS you, walk away. If they try and add on costs, walk away. If they try and switch you into another vehicle, walk away. They need to sell a car far more than you need to buy one, capice?

Well, I thought I had negotiated the price of the vehicle prior to going in. I had told him I wanted to purchase at invoice, which he said they can do. Now he is saying he doesnt think he can get the boss to let it go for anything less than $1k over invoice...

 

[adoihcj]

Well, I thought I had negotiated the price of the vehicle prior to going in. I had told him I wanted to purchase at invoice, which he said they can do. Now he is saying he doesnt think he can get the boss to let it go for anything less than $1k over invoice...

In my experience, they never honor what you speak about over the phone. Their goal is to get you there. Once you are there, they have more control over you and allow you to get excited over the vehicle once you see it.

When Saturn was closing shop, I called a local dealer to see if they had any Outlook's on their lot. The sales manager said "yes, I have three of them. In fact, I'm looking at one out the window right now." So I show up and talk to another salesman who said "we sold out of Outlook's a few days ago and haven't had any on our lot since then." They just wanted to get me in there to look at the other POS's they had on their lot, so I immediately left.

 

[scanny]

Another thing which sometimes works is to write e-mail to dealerships asking for a quote. Some of them will give you the quote and you can use it in your negotiations saying that I have already offer $1000 over invoice - could you do any better. I don't have good negotiations skills so I usually use 3 to 5 dealeships and let them to compete with each other.

 

[TTown]

I just booked your car for on kbb with no options and got 21,300. The money on your car as a trade in is more like the fair value or 18,100 plus any options you have. If the dealership were to go to an auction, this is what your car would bring. There isn't going to be much difference at either dealership.

My guess is that they are discounting the 4Runner more to show you 20k for your trade. This is why many say to work the deal on the new car first. In reality it doesn't matter which way you negotiate as long as you know what you are doing.

I recommend trying to sell your PF on your own to get the money you want out of it. Tell the dealership you will not be trading your PF in and keep working the deal on the 4Runner and keep walking if necessary. Once you get to an agreed upon price put your deposit down. Don't worry, they won't keep it if you don't buy the 4Runner. After you refinance your house, if you didn't sell your PF, then ask the dealer what they will give you for the trade. Before you go in, book your PF on kbb and look at the fair trade in regardless of condition. If they aren't close on your number, tell them you have to trade to get the deal done. Tell them to call some other dealers and get a buy bid on your PF if necessary.

One thing to consider with this strategy, your car will depreciate in value from today and 30 days from now.

 

[philsey]

+1 on keeping your PF out of the deal. You'll get at least $2k less than it's worth, and they just use it to muddy up the deal. If they do give you 'book' value, those dollars just get made up on the 4Rs selling price.

The only Real Deal is 15% off msrp minus 'book' value on your trade, and if you get that, take it.

To the dealer, a trade in is TWO sales: 1) your new car and, 2) the eventual used car sale of your trade. This means TWO profits. They HAVE to 'buy' your trade at wholesale or below to make profit #2. It's not wrong, it's just business. Whatever that profit is - $2k, $3K, $4K - it came from your pocket.

Perhaps you're willing to pay that for the convenience of it all - that's your business - just know what it's costing you.

Last year, I sold my wife's '06 CRV, and my '04 PF, and in both cases made over $2k more than the best trade price.