Help! Install issue on energy suspension body mounts

[dogtail]

So I'm replacing my body mounts with Energy Suspension poly, figuring all easy to do standard stuff. Following directions to a T.
I can't figure out the A pillar body bushing (position 2 on directions diagram), they say to use same bushing as C pillar (position 4). The #2 body mount factory one has a pressed in sleeve style, the #4 doesn't. You can't eliminate the #2 sleeve and just put the mount, the new bushing floats free, jamming it in the sleeve it runs too high in all configurations. All other mounts go in fine, couldn't figure out #2 position so I threw the original back in for now. I took it apart and tried every which way to install it like 5 times.
The picture in the directions diagram is bogus also, look at position #2 & #4, its the same pic of the driver side #4 bushing.
Looks like I'll be putting in a 1 inch BL also, the plate bumpers look like they'll still do a little touching on frame flex, any recommendations on best 1 inch body lift hardware would be appreciated also.
I figure someone has recently installed these Energy Suspension poly body mounts and can tell me what stupid thing I'm doing wrong. Maybe taking a pic of your correctly installed #2 position poly bushing would help also. I did a search and didn't find anyone with this issue.

 

[TheDurk]

What I can tell you is that #2 and #4 are the same 2000 and up. '99 and earlier#2 is similar, but not identical, to #3. I learned this obscure fact swapping an '02 frame into a '99 truck.

What I can't tell you is what to do about it in your situation. I suspect you have a '99 or earlier truck and a 2000 plus kit.

 

[Tyler James Inc]

I am hoping to install the possibly-same kit this evening. I say possibly, because I don't know the year of your truck, nor part number on your kit. Position 2 and 4 are not the same at all on my '01, that's for sure! Obvious in my pic.
I'll let you know how it goes.
Arranged from 5 to 1.

 

[dogtail]

I am hoping to install the possibly-same kit this evening. I say possibly, because I don't know the year of your truck, nor part number on your kit. Position 2 and 4 are not the same at all on my '01, that's for sure! Obvious in my pic.
I'll let you know how it goes.
Arranged from 5 to 1.

Mine is a 99. You have 4 adapter plates, my kit has only 2, the kit instructions says it only has 2, matched yr instructions. But the #2 factory bushing is sleeved and I don't know how I can get the new poly bushings to work without the adapter plate in position #2.
I have a 2000 parts rig to compare it to, both #2 factory bushings look the same (see pic of the sleeved #2 bushing on side I didn't mess with yet).
My date of manufacture says 7/1999, maybe I mine got a 2000 frame being later in the manufacture yr. Maybe someone can shoot me a pic of a pre 99 #2 factory bushing.

 

[Tyler James Inc]

I believe this is the kit that fits '00-02:

 

[dogtail]

What I can tell you is that #2 and #4 are the same 2000 and up. '99 and earlier#2 is similar, but not identical, to #3. I learned this obscure fact swapping an '02 frame into a '99 truck.

What I can't tell you is what to do about it in your situation. I suspect you have a '99 or earlier truck and a 2000 plus kit.

Thanks. That's what I thought, my #2 and #5 looked the same, I really think I may have a 99 with a 2000 frame, its factory frame, no signs of swap and I got it with low mileage, manufacture date says 7/99, so just maybe they ran out of 99 frames late in season and I got a 2000 frame.

 

[Tyler James Inc]

You absolutely need the newer kit.

 

[TheDurk]

Thanks. That's what I thought, my #2 and #5 looked the same, I really think I may have a 99 with a 2000 frame, its factory frame, no signs of swap and I got it with low mileage, manufacture date says 7/99, so just maybe they ran out of 99 frames late in season and I got a 2000 frame.

Well, if you look at my post, the switch over date is 6/99, so 7/99 should have #2 and #4 the same. I think most years, July production is the last of the old Model Year and August is the new one.

 

[dogtail]

Well, if you look at my post, the switch over date is 6/99, so 7/99 should have #2 and #4 the same. I think most years, July production is the last of the old Model Year and August is the new one.

Ok thanks for the input. I guess I'll just have to order the newer version kit and sell the older one.

 

[dogtail]

You absolutely need the newer kit.

Thanks for the help, soon as I saw your 4 adapter plate kit I figured that one was the one that I needed. I'll look up the Amazon one you showed. How about your BL you pictured, do you like the kit and where did you buy it from?

 

[Tyler James Inc]

Thanks for the help, soon as I saw your 4 adapter plate kit I figured that one was the one that I needed. I'll look up the Amazon one you showed. How about your BL you pictured, do you like the kit and where did you buy it from?

I got it from FatPat. I am mostly happy with it. He wasn't great at communicating, and his site indicates turn around time is much quicker than it was. I ordered 8/10, and finally received the kit 9/4. His site said material was in stock and orders were caught up, but I emailed him 8/14 for an order update, and he said the material was currently backordered.
Another issue is that his steering spacers are the same poly as the body spacers. When you tighten down the rag joint, the spacer squishes. I don't like that at all, and think that it's causing a weird increased effort in my steering- only in certain positions. My slip joint was moving freely, so nothing is binding because of the slip joint. I'll be replacing the rag joint spacer with a 4Crawler aluminum spacer.
All things considered, it's a good kit at a good price. I wasn't in a hurry, and I would order from Pat again. I would just have him keep his steering spacer, and I would grab an aluminum spacer.
According to the "3rd gen torque specs" post here, the factory torque spec on the body mount bolts is 48ft lbs. FatPat also has 48ft lbs on his instructions. I tried to go to 48, but felt that was WAY too tight for a 3/8-16 grade 5 bolt. 3/8-16 grade 5 torque spec is 23ft lbs.
I'd love to hear if someone has actually torqued their grade 5 body mount bolts to 48ft lbs with success.
I don't know how guys do body lifts in 2hrs. I was hustlin, and everything went smooth as could be- and it still took me 3.5hrs. Maybe they're just much better mechanics than myself. The bolted on body mounts are a pain, and took a good amount of time to get the bolts out.

 

[TheDurk]

I got it from FatPat. I am mostly happy with it. He wasn't great at communicating, and his site indicates turn around time is much quicker than it was. I ordered 8/10, and finally received the kit 9/4. His site said material was in stock and orders were caught up, but I emailed him 8/14 for an order update, and he said the material was currently backordered.
Another issue is that his steering spacers are the same poly as the body spacers. When you tighten down the rag joint, the spacer squishes. I don't like that at all, and think that it's causing a weird increased effort in my steering- only in certain positions. My slip joint was moving freely, so nothing is binding because of the slip joint. I'll be replacing the rag joint spacer with a 4Crawler aluminum spacer.
All things considered, it's a good kit at a good price. I wasn't in a hurry, and I would order from Pat again. I would just have him keep his steering spacer, and I would grab an aluminum spacer.
According to the "3rd gen torque specs" post here, the factory torque spec on the body mount bolts is 48ft lbs. FatPat also has 48ft lbs on his instructions. I tried to go to 48, but felt that was WAY too tight for a 3/8-16 grade 5 bolt. 3/8-16 grade 5 torque spec is 23ft lbs.
I'd love to hear if someone has actually torqued their grade 5 body mount bolts to 48ft lbs with success.
I don't know how guys do body lifts in 2hrs. I was hustlin, and everything went smooth as could be- and it still took me 3.5hrs. Maybe they're just much better mechanics than myself. The bolted on body mounts are a pain, and took a good amount of time to get the bolts out.

Dang, I looked everywhere for a torque spec, and did not find one. I even found a thread where nobody knew. I ended up using the lowest setting on my impact...felt about right and seems to work. Body hasn't fallen off once.

He got his torque numbers from the FSM; I'm going to look at mine again. I swear it was not in there.

I can't comment on the hours, since I was doing a frame swap.

EDIT: Yep. Nothing in MY FSM.

EDIT #2: I looked in Doc's Torque thread, and I did not see a spec for body mount bolt anywhere. Care to tell me where you saw 48 ft-lbs.?

 

[T4R2014]

Dang, I looked everywhere for a torque spec, and did not find one. I even found a thread where nobody knew. I ended up using the lowest setting on my impact...felt about right and seems to work. Body hasn't fallen off once.

He got his torque numbers from the FSM; I'm going to look at mine again. I swear it was not in there.

I can't comment on the hours, since I was doing a frame swap.

EDIT: Yep. Nothing in MY FSM.

EDIT #2: I looked in Doc's Torque thread, and I did not see a spec for body mount bolt anywhere. Care to tell me where you saw 48 ft-lbs.?

I've never looked at it personally, but Toyota makes a collision repair manual that potentially could have these specs.

https://www.faxonautoliterature.com/1996-2002-Toyota-4Runner-Body-Collision-Repair-Shop-Manual-Original-P27269.aspx

Appears to be a total pain to find a hardcopy, let alone a pdf.

 

[dogtail]

I got it from FatPat. I am mostly happy with it. He wasn't great at communicating, and his site indicates turn around time is much quicker than it was. I ordered 8/10, and finally received the kit 9/4. His site said material was in stock and orders were caught up, but I emailed him 8/14 for an order update, and he said the material was currently backordered.
Another issue is that his steering spacers are the same poly as the body spacers. When you tighten down the rag joint, the spacer squishes. I don't like that at all, and think that it's causing a weird increased effort in my steering- only in certain positions. My slip joint was moving freely, so nothing is binding because of the slip joint. I'll be replacing the rag joint spacer with a 4Crawler aluminum spacer.
All things considered, it's a good kit at a good price. I wasn't in a hurry, and I would order from Pat again. I would just have him keep his steering spacer, and I would grab an aluminum spacer.
According to the "3rd gen torque specs" post here, the factory torque spec on the body mount bolts is 48ft lbs. FatPat also has 48ft lbs on his instructions. I tried to go to 48, but felt that was WAY too tight for a 3/8-16 grade 5 bolt. 3/8-16 grade 5 torque spec is 23ft lbs.
I'd love to hear if someone has actually torqued their grade 5 body mount bolts to 48ft lbs with success.
I don't know how guys do body lifts in 2hrs. I was hustlin, and everything went smooth as could be- and it still took me 3.5hrs. Maybe they're just much better mechanics than myself. The bolted on body mounts are a pain, and took a good amount of time to get the bolts out.

I figured so, I got the 1/2 inch lift from him with same chop saw rings. Mine from him looks ok, tad bigger 1/16th over 1/2 inch, front puck holes off center about 1/4 inch, but no big deal on those things.....I'm gonna now go to 1 inch instead. Plus with 1/2 inch BL, factory bolts can supposedly be used, not in my case, my factory bushings use up almost all the threads, no way I can use the original bolts.

 

[ChildrenOfBodom]

The picture in the directions diagram is bogus also, look at position #2 & #4, its the same pic of the driver side #4 bushing.

dogtail,

I get your frustration, but as with my customers who are quick to complain, did you do your homework first? There is a very good reason these photos are the same. It's the same part.

If you're curious to know who I am, I am the account manager and lead technical support for Energy Suspension. I'm responsible for bringing about the 96-99 version of this kit to the marketplace, and I'm literally responsible for the "bogus" photos you refer to.



I'd really suggest choosing your words a bit more wisely here on T4R as you don't know who might be reading.

Kit # 8.4110 was built on a 2000 4Runner. Fits 00-02 only.

Kit # 8.4111 was built on my personal 1999 4Runner, fits 96-99 only. 96 does not use the rear-most positions.


In the Energy Suspension shop making kit # 8.4111

Here's another bogus pic of Position 4 just in case.

 

[dogtail]

dogtail,

I get your frustration, but as with my customers who are quick to complain, did you do your homework first? There is a very good reason these photos are the same. It's the same part.

If you're curious to know who I am, I am the account manager and lead technical support for Energy Suspension. I'm responsible for bringing about the 96-99 version of this kit to the marketplace, and I'm literally responsible for the "bogus" photos you refer to.



I'd really suggest choosing your words a bit more wisely here on T4R as you don't know who might be reading.

Kit # 8.4110 was built on a 2000 4Runner. Fits 00-02 only.

Kit # 8.4111 was built on my personal 1999 4Runner, fits 96-99 only. 96 does not use the rear-most positions.


In the Energy Suspension shop making kit # 8.4111

Here's another bogus pic of Position 4 just in case.

My apologies totally, no offense intended with my lack of wordsmith. I understand the bushing is the same, its just that the photo is the identical position on the frame for both locations on the diagram, so it doesn't look accurate, especially when troubleshooting if being detailed. I see your point, hopefully you see mine. I ordered a kit based for 99, I have a 99. What could go wrong? Apparently late production season 99s (mine 7/99) got the 2000 frame, not sure how many 99s got the 2000 frame Its a fluke, but all figured out now. Maybe good to know this odd frame issue if you run into it with others. Maybe a side note description for people ordering, or maybe not worth it cause too rare.
I can't believe I'm the only one this has happened too, but I'm a weird stuff magnet.
I just now ordered 2000-2002 yr kit 8.4110 from Energy Suspension to rectify my oddball 99 with 2000 frame issue. It has the 4 adapter plates so should be all set.

 

[TheDurk]

I've never looked at it personally, but Toyota makes a collision repair manual that potentially could have these specs.

https://www.faxonautoliterature.com/1996-2002-Toyota-4Runner-Body-Collision-Repair-Shop-Manual-Original-P27269.aspx

Appears to be a total pain to find a hardcopy, let alone a pdf.

I have the .pdf, I looked, not in there.

 

[Tyler James Inc]

EDIT #2: I looked in Doc's Torque thread, and I did not see a spec for body mount bolt anywhere. Care to tell me where you saw 48 ft-lbs.?

I overlooked it twice too! I'll give you a hint: it's somewhere in this screenshot [emoji854]

Dang COB, a little aggressive coming from a company rep [emoji15]

 

[TheDurk]

I overlooked it twice too! I'll give you a hint: it's somewhere in this screenshot [emoji854]

Dang COB, a little aggressive coming from a company rep [emoji23]

No, I didn't overlook it, I was just looking in the new revised thread. That's from the OLD thread, which Doc copied from a TTORA Tacoma site, so technically we STILL don't have an official 4Runner spec. While it should be similar, a pickup frame cab setup might well be different that an SUV body frame spec. I can't take that as Toyota gospel for 4Runners.

That did not come from the FSM, which has no miscellaneous category, at least in 1999.

 

[TheDurk]

Meanwhile, as I looked for Tacoma Body Mount Torque on Google, I found this from a TSB for an '05 Tacoma:

34 ft-lbs seems more reasonable than 48. ft-[lbs.

EDIT: Here is the full TSB on these Tacoma mounts which look very similar to the revised 4Runner mount:

http://www.customtacos.com/tech.old/files/tsb/Cab_Mount_Bolt_TSB.pdf