Help - Installing Icon lift on TE w/KDSS

[proquip]

So I've decided to take the plunge and install my new coilovers myself. I've researched the forum as well as studied the FSM (thanks Nashman!).

The FSM makes it seem like once you disconnect the anti-sway bar from the LCAs, the front suspension will droop enough to remove the stock coilover assembly. Is that true?

From what I've read on the forum, some removed the tie-rod end to fit the new coilovers, while others have disconnected the LCA from the spindle/knuckle to get the LCA to drop completely (Antman/Sp8ball approach - I know for them it was a bit different since this approach allowed them to release the spring preload without using a spring compressor - very clever!). Will I need to disconnect the LCA from the spindle/knuckle? What about the tie-rod ends?

At any rate, I'm trying to study up as much as possible before I take this on so that I don't end up spending all weekend in the garage (wife would kill me).

Thanks!

Forgot to mention - it's a stage 1 kit.

 

[proquip]

Okay, so I've looked around some more and found the following thread with a link to All-Pro's instructions for installing new coilovers on an FJ.

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/85635-lift-install-instructions.html#post740617

All-Pro's instructions have you loosen the upper ball joint castle nut to break the spindle free from the UCA, dropping the LCA enough to remove the coilover shock.

For the suspension experts out there, which would you recommend, loosening the upper ball joint castle nut or removing the two bolts that hold the spindle to the LCA? Either way seems to work. It also seems that the FSM instructions are over simplified - those make it seem like once you get the truck in the air and remove the anti-sway bar, the suspension will droop enough to remove the coilover.

Thoughts?

 

[darkie3495]

First off congrats on doing it yourself!!

Please note: this info is based on several 4th Gen suspension swaps.

I personally prefer to separate the UCA and the spindle to allow enough room/droop to swap the coilovers. With them separated, you can just use zip ties or bungee cords to move them out of the way while you're doing the swap.

Although disconnecting the tie rods is detailed in the instructions, it's really not needed. But, it only takes a few minutes so you can if you want to.

Good Luck!!!

 

[Keemonrunnin]

See if this helps you out. this is from icons web site.Installation Instructions | Icon Vehicle Dynamics Hope everything works out for you.

 

[proquip]

Thanks Keemon! I should have started with the Icon website, huh? It's weird, they also recommend disconnecting the tie-rod ends although some of the feedback I've gotten is that it's not necessary.

Thanks Darkie! I think the primary difference between the 4th gen and 5th gen in my case will be the KDSS. I've decided that I don't want to fight the KDSS system while I'm trying to remove/reinstall the coilover, so best to disconnect from the LCA and rotate out of the way.

I found a couple of other helpful links off the Toyota120 website under their Technical Write-ups/Suspensions. One of the write ups talks about using a bottle jack on top of the UCA and applying pressure against the wheelwell using a piece of wood (2x4), to force the UCA/knuckle/LCA down, ultimately making room to remove the coilover. I think the point is that there's different ways to get the suspension to drop enough to remove the coilover.

Now I need to research the rear suspension and figure out if there's any quick tips and/or things to avoid to make that part of the job a little easier.

Thanks again!

 

[Jesse1983]

I personally prefer to separate the UCA and the spindle to allow enough room/droop to swap the coilovers. With them separated, you can just use zip ties or bungee cords to move them out of the way while you're doing the swap.

yup.

i installed coilovers on my TE and did this. I replaced my UCA's at the same time, but even if I didn't I would have done it this way.

 

[proquip]

I need help guys! I started the install this morning and had to stop mid way through because Icon/Wheelers did not include all the necessary hardware to secure the coilovers at the top shock mount. I'm heading to Home Depot now to buy the necessary bolts.

Also, the coilovers have small spacers at the lower shock mount where the coilovers connects with the LCA. The spacers are of different lengths and allow the coilover to either sit further ahead at the lower mount, or further back. For a TE with KDSS, should the longer spacer sit in front or behind of the coilover? For those who have installed their own Icon coilovers I'm sure you know exactly what I'm talking about. The ICON instructions are generic for FJ and 4Runner and not specific to the 5th gen TE w/ KDSS. In fact, the instructions reference putting the longer spacer towards the front making more room for the swaybar connection point at the steering knuckle (TE's connect point is at the LCA). That said, the coilovers were dropped shipped from ICON and had the spacers in the reverse configurations (longer spacer towards the rear moving the overall shock body towards the front of the truck).

Anyway, let me know. I'll try to post pictures later of what I'm talking about. Thanks!

 

[Narkhelek]

I have Overland Warehouse COs but I would imagine it would be the same. They have the longer spacer toward the front.

 

[proquip]

Thanks Narkhelek - it makes sense that if that's the intended location of the longer spacer for the 4th gen 4Runner and FJ, and I suppose the 5th gen SR5 and Limited, that it should work fine on the TE, even if it has KDSS. I was thrown by the fact that the longer spacer was zip-tied in place at Icon facing the rear, moving the shock body away from the half shaft. Thanks again.

IF anyone else out there has installed ICON's and has dealt with this issue, please chime in. Thanks!

 

[harper7]

IF anyone else out there has installed ICON's and has dealt with this issue, please chime in. Thanks!

Yes, The bigger spacer goes in front as that is how they were designed.
Your going to love the Icon CO's.

 

[Narkhelek]

The instructions I have state that the longer spacer towards the front is to ensure the CO clears the sway bar. However, I don't see how the CO could possibly make contact with the KDSS sway bar regardless. Maybe it's needed to clear the non-KDSS sway bar?

 

[proquip]

Thanks guys! I'm back to the garage in a bit to finish with the front and start with the rear coils. Thanks again!

 

[proquip]

So I was able to finish with the rear coils earlier this week - what a pain in the a$$. I'm convinced that KDSS made the install of the front and rear twice as hard. Anyway, I'll do a more detailed write up of the install later but I wanted to share a few pics along with a few details.

front - Icon 2.5" coilovers
rear - SAW coils w/ Icon monotube shocks
tires - Toyo Open Country A/Ts - P285/70R17s

front is pretty even side-side, 38" ground to fender
rear is also even side-side, 39" ground to fender

The truck rides great. I'll need to give it a bit of time for the suspension to settle a bit more, and then I'm off to get an alignment. You can certainly tell that the camber is pretty off (front tires are leaning out on top). I'm pretty happy with the Toyo's but will consider a second set of rims with more aggressive M/T's down the road to be able to switch it up from time to time. I wonder what those TRD forged wheels would look like on the TE?!?

 

[darkie3495]

Congrats on the install!! Your truck looks good.

 

[Narkhelek]

Congrats on the install!! Your truck looks good.

Indeed. Looks like a clone of mine minus all the brush scratches down the sides. :thumb3:

 

[Mick1]

Any update on the installation write-up?

Specifically more pictures / advice about dealing with the KDSS.

This link indicates that all four wheels should be lifted off the ground and the vehicle supported and the KDSS bypass valve(s) opened.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0w...NzFkLWIzMDctZjIyMTIwNmViZmQ1/edit?hl=en&pli=1

For some reason I can't get this document to print. I am not sure if it is referring to one valve or two.

 

[SOcalTRAIL]

I would advise AGAINST opening up the proportioning valves on the KDSS. I've literally had my front suspension on and off probably a dozen times and never had to open any valves.

My advise....

First and foremost, take the swaybar loose from the a-arms with the vehicle resting rubber on the ground, once the swaybar is loose, the hydraulic cylinder will fully extend. Dont worry about this, this will be dealt with later.

Do your suspension work as you normally would. Once your done and ready to put the sway bar back the work officially starts. Its not hard but there are some tricks that make it "do-able".
You wanna reattach the bar with the a-arms fully extended and the truck up in the air. First attach the passenger side end of the sway bar to the a-arm. You can use a floor jack on the bottom of the a arm to move the a-arm into place a bit if you need.

Next, after the passenger side is tight, comes the hard part and you really need two people for the job. I put the tires back on the put the truck on the ground. Get all your bolts ready and get a floor jack under the hydraulic piston that comes out ahead of the drivers side a-arm on the inboard side of the frame rail. Use the floor jack to apply upward pressue on the piston until it collapses enough to have your partner line up the end link on the a arm and stick a bolt in it. There are little "hooks" on the end link that can be your best friend or your worts enemy. Either way, its not too bad of a job. If I had my carmera on my today I would snap some pics. Maybe tomorrow!

This is simply what works for me, after doing it a couple times, i can have the swaybar on again in under 5 minutes. Good luck.

 

[Mick1]

Interesting.

I found the Overland Warehouse installation instructions for KDSS equipped vehicles today.
http://stores.overlandwarehouse.com/images/2010-Front-KDSS-suspension-2.0.pdf
I believe it recommends lifting both axles off the ground and letting the suspension droop. That is the most specific instructions I have seen.

I also read a story about a 08 Land Cruiser 200 series that was lifted and had a KDSS issue, but it was short on details.

Found this too:
http://www.ironman4x4.com/pdfs/suspension_fitting_instructions/landcruiser_kdss_instructions.pdf

SOcalTRAIL, I will be doing rear springs / rear shocks, front coil-overs and Light Racing front upper control arm. Is there any specific advise on the order of installations? Basically should I do the complete rear suspension prior to doing the front suspension? On the front suspension is it pull front coilover, then pull front UCA, then install new UCA, then install new Coilover?

 

[SOcalTRAIL]

Personally, I would get the front complete first.

Remove sway bay, lift truck in air, remove wheels, remove OEM shock and control arm (doesnt matter which order, at full droop there is no downward tension form the shock on the lower arm, in fact this piece is holding the arm up), reinstall new coilover, reinstall new a-arm, then tackle the sway bars.

With the rear I found it necessary to take the sway bar loose from the passenger side of the axle, i managed to leave the drivers side connected. Mind your brake lines too, the rear shock is the limiting factor on downward travel so when that is off, you will stretch out your rear brake lines when you are wrastling the spring out, use a 10mm (could be 12mm) socket and loosen the bracket that secures the rear brake lines to the body before they drop down to the axle, this will give you some slack.

Cheers