Help me decide on what lift to get - Oh no not another one

[munkel]

Before you scroll down and hit reply and type USE THE F***ING SEARCH!!! read my post.... Thanks!

Brand new 16 TEP w/KDSS and I plan to throw on 285/75/17's. Going to do the body mount chop and some trimming and a lift. The big decision is what lift. My rig will not have a swingout rear bumper for a few years, same with a winch front bumper due to having to save for them as well as full skids, sliders etc. First priorities are lift, tires, a full roofrack and a drawer system for the back. I also will occasionally haul my dirtbike on a hitch mounted rail hauler, 350#'s total weight. Truck will be a DD for weekdays and mainly mellow trails, fire roads on the weekends.

I went Icon on my Tacoma but I was never happy with anything Icon made for the rear. Really liked the Icons for the front though.

Was thinking of a full Icon setup for the 4runner if it can provide me with a full 3" of lift. Something like a stage 6 or stage 7 with the 3" overland springs for the rear. Just worried they may be too stiff in the rear until I get a swingout rear bumper etc. Maybe different rear springs?

Also looking to get an airbag system for the rear for when I haul the bike. Not sure if that will interfere with normal travel and cycling of the rear springs though.

Any thoughts or suggestions from the above info? What front springs do Icons come with for the 4runner? I had 650's on my tacoma and had to switch to 700's when I got a plate bumper and winch.

Thanks!

 

[1engineer]

There is a lift guide if you search. You are not doing anything that hundreds before you have done.

I will say if you are adding a drawer and hauling a bike then you need to leave the factory rake so you won't be nose high all the time.

 

[Sleeter]

No body to chop on 2016s. If you're looking at icon you should consider another cheaper option that is just as capable and more reliable. If you go with a cheaper route you should have a little more money to buy bumpers. I'm using airbags and they are great but stiffen up the rear even are the minimum psi.

 

[munkel]

There is a lift guide if you search. You are not doing anything that hundreds before you have done.

I will say if you are adding a drawer and hauling a bike then you need to leave the factory rake so you won't be nose high all the time.

Thanks, if you are referring to the "5th Gen 4Runner Lift Buyers Guide" I have read it multiple times, I am at a level where my questions are more granular than that thread can address. You are right about the rake, my intent is to lift 3" both front and rear. I'm used to my Taco looking the same way with the rear up in the air.

Thanks!

 

[wfo9]

Icon is a good bet... but all the big names are good ICON, Fox, RadFlow, King....

Can't really compare spring rates across different setups... Motion ratios are a big factor. Icon come with 650s up front.

I've never ran airbags on a coil suspension They do create a few potential issues if you plan to do high speed wheeling where you would be on the bump stops... They basically require removal of the jounce bump that sits inside the coil.

As far as stage... goes.

I recommend getting extended travel up front and Rockmen or TC uniball UCAs. Also replacing the stock rear LCAs is a worthwhile effort sine they will bend very easy. Besides that... all the other stock links are 100% adequate.

So 2.5 non remote resi up front, 2.0 rear. UCAs + some rear springs of your choice... and you will have a nice setup. Don't forget skids. Rear LCA brackets really need them if you plan to wheel it hard much.

 

[munkel]

No body to chop on 2016s. If you're looking at icon you should consider another cheaper option that is just as capable and more reliable. If you go with a cheaper route you should have a little more money to buy bumpers. I'm using airbags and they are great but stiffen up the rear even are the minimum psi.

That's great, I had no idea there was no chop needed on 2016's. What do you consider on the same level as Icon but is cheaper and more reliable? Thanks for the info on the bags.

 

[munkel]

Icon is a good bet... but all the big names are good ICON, Fox, RadFlow, King....

Can't really compare spring rates across different setups... Motion ratios are a big factor. Icon come with 650s up front.

I've never ran airbags on a coil suspension They do create a few potential issues if you plan to do high speed wheeling where you would be on the bump stops... They basically require removal of the jounce bump that sits inside the coil.

As far as stage... goes.

I recommend getting extended travel up front and Rockmen or TC uniball UCAs. Also replacing the stock rear LCAs is a worthwhile effort sine they will bend very easy. Besides that... all the other stock links are 100% adequate.

So 2.5 non remote resi up front, 2.0 rear. UCAs + some rear springs of your choice... and you will have a nice setup. Don't forget skids. Rear LCA brackets really need them if you plan to wheel it hard much.

Thanks, yeah I wish Icon, Fox, King and RadFlow were not all about the same quality, it doesn't make decisions any easier. I have the most experience with Icon so far so I may stay with them unless I learn more about another brand. Also depends on what kind of deal I can get from a GB or a local dealer.

Yeah, I am a little worried about running the bags even though I think they may be essential for hauling the bike, especially once I have a rear bumper and gear on it.

Thanks for the recommendations on the stages and the specific pieces that need the most attention.

 

[Sleeter]

That's great, I had no idea there was no chop needed on 2016's. What do you consider on the same level as Icon but is cheaper and more reliable? Thanks for the info on the bags.

I'd start with the ARB product-line and compare durability, capabilities, and price.

 

[wfo9]

Yea, no body mount chop needed to run 285s on any 5th gen as long as you run the right wheels (17x8 4.1 - 4.5 back spacing). Once you try to run a 34" tire or a wide or low backspaced wheel.... The BCM becomes absolutely necessary.

As far as durability of the suspension goes....I like ICON for rebuild intervals. Fox is similar. Then Radflow... King seems to be the highest rebuild interval required, but they also offer pretty amazing performance. A fresh set of Kings is like butter... Toytec has a decent lift kit also, I think they use Radflow for their shocks now.

If you want to just install and beat the crap out of it and never think about it for 100+K. Traditional ARB/Nitrocharger OME is hard to beat, but the ride is a bit harsh and the travel numbers are not great. I had it on my truck and it was 100% adequate, but it would be hard to to go back now. I do more wheeling now vs just hauling my dirt bike around.... For general overland and utility type use.. hard to beat (literally).

A lot of people also like general purpose 5100 Bilsteins. Decent ride decent durability and great price.. The valving won't hold up to any real weight or hard core use.... You can put a 700lb spring on an ICON 2.5 and it will ride like a dream. Try that with a generic bilstein and it is a pogo stick... They also have higher end shocks.. but the prices start getting up there with the others and you still don't have an adjustable coil over up front...

 

[jbjones85]

honestly for your use a stage 6/7 icon seems like overkill (or any of the other names listed on their "higher end" systems).

I went Icon Stage 5 on my trail with similar usage and while it was an awesome suspension and drive Perfect it was WAY overkill for my usage. I ended up selling it to someone who will get more use out of it and went with something "lower end" and use the $$ saved to kick start the fund for the other mods.

Can't really commend on the rear springs as I don't have or plan to do much more to mine for the near future. I have 2" icon rears and they maintain close to the factory rake which when loaded is "level".

 

[Jhalko]

Toytec has a decent lift kit also, I think they use Radflow for their shocks now.

The Toytec Boss shocks are made by Eibach, definitely control better than the Bilstein's though. The Ultimate kits has used used the Bilsteins and you can still buy that kit though they don't call it the Ultimate anymore.

 

[wfo9]

honestly for your use a stage 6/7 icon seems like overkill (or any of the other names listed on their "higher end" systems).

I went Icon Stage 5 on my trail with similar usage and while it was an awesome suspension and drive Perfect it was WAY overkill for my usage. I ended up selling it to someone who will get more use out of it and went with something "lower end" and use the $$ saved to kick start the fund for the other mods.

Can't really commend on the rear springs as I don't have or plan to do much more to mine for the near future. I have 2" icon rears and they maintain close to the factory rake which when loaded is "level".

Not here to argue... but he never stated his use...

Agree the stages make no sense and are over priced. ICON coil overs and shocks are not that expensive. About 1200 for the 2.5 fronts and the 2.0 rears are about 300. You might save 3-500 going with a lower end setup. The UCAs will set you back another 600 or so, but those are going to be require on any full suspension lift.

Removing a system and selling it for something cheaper seems nuts. Lightly used stuff typically sells for 50 - 75% of retail. Not to mention the loss of time and money in labor. Hard to imagine coming out ahead.

.

 

[wfo9]

The Toytec Boss shocks are made by Eibach, definitely control better than the Bilstein's though. The Ultimate kits has used used the Bilsteins and you can still buy that kit though they don't call it the Ultimate anymore.

I did not know Eibach made shocks. I know they use them for the springs.... Someone told me they were getting them from Radflow now, he may have had the wrong info....Or maybe it was just the coil over assembly parts.. he was referring to.

 

[4Running303]

I thought the shocks were made by Radflow and the springs were Eibach...I could be mistaken though.

oh well, I know that Toytec really doesn't make any of their own stuff...rear arms and panhard are made by Rokmen. Their kits aren't bad and not just saying that cause I have it on my rig. They are really a combo kit of other manufacturers just rebranded as Toytec. As far as cost, I think they are good reasonably priced kit...just add front UCAs of your choice.

For what the OP is looking for, the Toytec BOSS or Ultimate kits might be better suited...of course once you add rear trailing arms, rear uppers, front UCAs, and maybe a panhard...you're getting closer to the ICON higher end kits prices.

The Toytec Boss shocks are made by Eibach, definitely control better than the Bilstein's though. The Ultimate kits has used used the Bilsteins and you can still buy that kit though they don't call it the Ultimate anymore.

 

[4Running303]

jinx!

I did not know Eibach made shocks. I know they use them for the springs.... Someone told me they were getting them from Radflow now, he may have had the wrong info....Or maybe it was just the coil over assembly parts.. he was referring to.

 

[Engineer]

Not here to argue... but he never stated his use...

Agree the stages make no sense and are over priced. ICON coil overs and shocks are not that expensive. About 1200 for the 2.5 fronts and the 2.0 rears are about 300. You might save 3-500 going with a lower end setup. The UCAs will set you back another 600 or so, but those are going to be require on any full suspension lift.

Removing a system and selling it for something cheaper seems nuts. Lightly used stuff typically sells for 50 - 75% of retail. Not to mention the loss of time and money in labor. Hard to imagine coming out ahead.

.

All true, but if he goes Stage 6 or 7, then its more like 3-5 thousand in savings and unless the OP does the rebuilds himself I bet the rebuild costs of the Shocks, UCA, Rear links etc is MORE then a new set of shocks/coil from Bilstien or OME.

OP, I would not go straight to Stage XX, buy a set of solid UCA , front coil overs and rear shocks/springs and then spend the money towards other things on your list.

 

[Sleeter]

Yea, no body mount chop needed to run 285s on any 5th gen as long as you run the right wheels (17x8 4.1 - 4.5 back spacing). Once you try to run a 34" tire or a wide or low backspaced wheel.... The BCM becomes absolutely necessary.

As far as durability of the suspension goes....I like ICON for rebuild intervals. Fox is similar. Then Radflow... King seems to be the highest rebuild interval required, but they also offer pretty amazing performance. A fresh set of Kings is like butter... Toytec has a decent lift kit also, I think they use Radflow for their shocks now.

If you want to just install and beat the crap out of it and never think about it for 100+K. Traditional ARB/Nitrocharger OME is hard to beat, but the ride is a bit harsh and the travel numbers are not great. I had it on my truck and it was 100% adequate, but it would be hard to to go back now. I do more wheeling now vs just hauling my dirt bike around.... For general overland and utility type use.. hard to beat (literally).

A lot of people also like general purpose 5100 Bilsteins. Decent ride decent durability and great price.. The valving won't hold up to any real weight or hard core use.... You can put a 700lb spring on an ICON 2.5 and it will ride like a dream. Try that with a generic bilstein and it is a pogo stick... They also have higher end shocks.. but the prices start getting up there with the others and you still don't have an adjustable coil over up front...

I 100% agree with this post. [MENTION=143758]munkel[/MENTION] listen to wfo9 he has great wisdom.

 

[Dark Lord]

Before you scroll down and hit reply and type USE THE F***ING SEARCH!!! read my post.... Thanks!

Brand new 16 TEP w/KDSS and I plan to throw on 285/75/17's. Going to do the body mount chop and some trimming and a lift. The big decision is what lift. My rig will not have a swingout rear bumper for a few years, same with a winch front bumper due to having to save for them as well as full skids, sliders etc. First priorities are lift, tires, a full roofrack and a drawer system for the back. I also will occasionally haul my dirtbike on a hitch mounted rail hauler, 350#'s total weight. Truck will be a DD for weekdays and mainly mellow trails, fire roads on the weekends.

I went Icon on my Tacoma but I was never happy with anything Icon made for the rear. Really liked the Icons for the front though.

Was thinking of a full Icon setup for the 4runner if it can provide me with a full 3" of lift. Something like a stage 6 or stage 7 with the 3" overland springs for the rear. Just worried they may be too stiff in the rear until I get a swingout rear bumper etc. Maybe different rear springs?

Also looking to get an airbag system for the rear for when I haul the bike. Not sure if that will interfere with normal travel and cycling of the rear springs though.

Any thoughts or suggestions from the above info? What front springs do Icons come with for the 4runner? I had 650's on my tacoma and had to switch to 700's when I got a plate bumper and winch.

Thanks!

If you want the Icon overland springs, but you're worried they'll be too stiff without weight in the back, don't. I ran my Icon overland springs without a rear bumper for about 7 months, and it was fine.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

 

[munkel]

Wow guys, some great info here, much appreciated, good to here about the overland Icon springs not being too rough with no aftermarket bumper too. Will have to see if anyone with KDSS has run them with no real weight in the rear.

One of the primary reasons I was looking at a higher "stage" kit was my Icons on my Tacoma were pretty rough, especially once I put on 700# springs, granted I never went to aftermarket UCA's and extended the travel, that would have probably helped them. Definitely going to start with aftermarket UCA's no matter what I do on the 4runner.

Thanks again all!

 

[jbjones85]

No worries, I was referencing this section of his post.

"Truck will be a DD for weekdays and mainly mellow trails, fire roads on the weekends. "

Not here to argue... but he never stated his use...

Agree the stages make no sense and are over priced. ICON coil overs and shocks are not that expensive. About 1200 for the 2.5 fronts and the 2.0 rears are about 300. You might save 3-500 going with a lower end setup. The UCAs will set you back another 600 or so, but those are going to be require on any full suspension lift.

Removing a system and selling it for something cheaper seems nuts. Lightly used stuff typically sells for 50 - 75% of retail. Not to mention the loss of time and money in labor. Hard to imagine coming out ahead.

.