Help with Rigid Lights Wiring

[osceola]

First let me say thanks to Ducmonsta for the lights. He set me up with a complete package.

Also, I am very challenged when it comes to electrical issues, i.e. voltage, wiring, etc. so please bear with me.

So here is the situation:

I have 4 - 6" Rigid E-Series. I soldered all 4 lights to one wire and ran it from the roof into the roof liner and through the driver side. Similar to Antman and Okki builds.

When I flip the switch, with the car off, I get a slight flicker from the lights and at times one or two will turn off. With the car running all the lights come on but I still get a slight flicker. The wire running from the lights to the switch is 18 gauge. My fear is that the wire isn't thick enough and I need to go to a 16 or 14 gauge.

Does the flicker and intermittent power sound like a current/wire thickness problem or some other issue?

As mentioned all 4 lights will come on so I know they are working (I hope) and getting power.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

 

[Hellamatic]

Sounds like it could be a bad ground - what did you ground them to? In my experience, most issues with aftermarket accessories inevitably comes back to an issue with poor grounding.

Also, 18awg is probably a little small to run 24" worth of Rigids. I'm not sure what size comes on the stock Rigid harness for the 6", but my 40" came with a 12awg harness.

Are you using a relay for the lights or running directly through a switch? If you're not using a relay, you should be.

If it were me, I'd run a minimum 14awg for peace of mind. Should be pretty easy to run - just tie the new wire to the one you've already installed and use the old wire to pull in the new one.

 

[limamike]

Hard to say without actually seeing how they are acting. Could be a bad ground, could be a poor soldering job, but it's likely your connection to the power source since you don't have the same issues when the vehicle is running. How did you connect the lights to the battery?

Technically you should be fine with 18 AWG for four E-series since they pull a little less than 2 amps each. However, I would feel more comfortable with 16, especially if you're running 4 to 1. I don't agree that you need a relay since the Rigid switches are rated for some pretty high amperage. I specifically remember a card that came with the lights that laid-out when a relay was needed and when wasn't based on Rigid's recommendations. Check your documentation that came with the lights and you'll find it somewhere along with the specifications on the switches that came with your lights. My 20" E-series came with a relay, so I left it installed, but I do not have a relay on my 4x6" SR Series and they pull about the same amperage as the E-Series.

 

[osceola]

I've closed it up for the night but I am going to check the relay in the morning. I am using Contura V switches which should be able to handle the load. It could be a bad switch. I'm going to try a direct run to the battery to see what that does.

I've pretty much settled for the worse and figured I should run a new line and check the solder connections, but I'll see what happens after checking the switch.

Thanks for the help.

 

[limamike]

I've closed it up for the night but I am going to check the relay in the morning. I am using Contura V switches which should be able to handle the load. It could be a bad switch. I'm going to try a direct run to the battery to see what that does.

I've pretty much settled for the worse and figured I should run a new line and check the solder connections, but I'll see what happens after checking the switch.

Thanks for the help.

I doubt it's a bad switch if you're getting different results when the truck is off and when the truck is running. Plus, like you mentioned, the Contura switch is beefy at 20A. The different results tells me that the lights aren't getting enough voltage with a non-assisted battery. When the truck is running the alternator will bump up the voltage, which is why you're getting better results with the truck running. We need to know exactly how you have the switch wired, and how you have the switch powered: are you tapping into an existing circuit, or are you going direct to the battery from the switch? Are you running off one battery, or are you running two batteries and to which do you have the lights wired? What other accessories do you have wired on the battery?

 

[osceola]

Here is my full set-up:

1) Grill Mount - 1, 20" E-Series
2) Flood lights - 4, 6" E-Series
3) Alley light, left - Dually
4) Alley light, right - Dually
5) Rear lights - 2, 6" SR-Series

I have each of these on separate switches (5 switches). Originally I split the power between 1 & 2, and 3,4,&5. As a test I separated the 2 from the rest and ran a direct connection to the battery but still had the issue.

Note: The ground for 2, 3, 4, and 5 all run from the same wire. (I found a 5 strand 18 ga wire from my local surplus store and used 4 wires for power and 1 for ground, thus why I am dreading running a whole new wire. But if this is the case I will run a separate ground for the Floods)

 

[osceola]

Also, I just tested the switch, connected to a different switch, and had the same problem. So my only thought is the gauge of wire or the solder connection.

 

[GrantK]

Here is my full set-up:

1) Grill Mount - 1, 20" E-Series
2) Flood lights - 4, 6" E-Series
3) Alley light, left - Dually
4) Alley light, right - Dually
5) Rear lights - 2, 6" SR-Series

I have each of these on separate switches (5 switches). Originally I split the power between 1 & 2, and 3,4,&5. As a test I separated the 2 from the rest and ran a direct connection to the battery but still had the issue.

Note: The ground for 2, 3, 4, and 5 all run from the same wire. (I found a 5 strand 18 ga wire from my local surplus store and used 4 wires for power and 1 for ground, thus why I am dreading running a whole new wire. But if this is the case I will run a separate ground for the Floods)

This doesn't make sense. Each light circuit needs to have the following current flow: power source-->fuse-->switch-->light-->ground. The ground must be a single wire going to the chassis or battery ground for each light, not a common 18ga for all lights.

 

[osceola]

Maybe that's my problem. I connected the grounds (2,3,4, & 5) to one wire that connects to the chassis. This is where my knowledge of electricity ends. Why can't they all use a common ground?

 

[GrantK]

Maybe that's my problem. I connected the grounds (2,3,4, & 5) to one wire that connects to the chassis. This is where my knowledge of electricity ends. Why can't they all use a common ground?

*** WARNING YOU HAVE A FIRE WAITING TO HAPPEN ***

Each light draws current, that current continues on the ground side until it reaches the battery and adds up. You could tie each light to a common ground wire if you use 18ga from the light to the common ground wire then make the common ground wire 6ga. or 4ga. until you reach either a chassis ground or the battery. This also holds true for the positive side, each switch needs it's own source direct from the fuse box or battery (through it's own fuse as well). Not a common 18ga wire feeding each switch. All the connections that aren't soldered (switches and chassis/battery ground) need to be spade terminals for the switches and ring terminals for the chassis/battery grounds.

BTW - If you tie your ground to a chassis ground, it must be an existing factory grounding point.

 

[osceola]

I do have the ground running to the factory point but like I said I connected a group through one 18 ga.

Do the roof rack bolts count as a factory ground or do I need to run it all the way back to the the battery location?

 

[jangoforhire]

I do have the ground running to the factory point but like I said I connected a group through one 18 ga.

Do the roof rack bolts count as a factory ground or do I need to run it all the way back to the the battery location?

They didn't for me. I originally used the roof rack bolt as a ground and had a similar problem. I broke out the multimeter and traced the voltage drop to the ground. So I just ran another wire inside the truck to a factory ground.

 

[GrantK]

I do have the ground running to the factory point but like I said I connected a group through one 18 ga.

Do the roof rack bolts count as a factory ground or do I need to run it all the way back to the the battery location?

Roof rack bolts are not factory grounds. Factory grounds will already have ground wires running to them installed at the factory.

 

[Hellamatic]

Definitely sounds like a grounding issue. A common 18awg for everything is way too small. The roof rack bolts are also a poor spot to ground to. You don't need to use a "factory ground point", however - you just need to choose a location where you can attain direct metal on metal contact between the chassis and your ground wire.

 

[osceola]

Grantk,

What makes the point where the factory ground wire connects so special?

 

[osceola]

Definitely sounds like a grounding issue. A common 18awg for everything is way too small. The roof rack bolts are also a poor spot to ground to. You don't need to use a "factory ground point", however - you just need to choose a location where you can attain direct metal on metal contact between the chassis and your ground wire.

Thanks Hellamatic. You called it from the beginning.

My plan is to run a thicker gauge to the roof and connect each ground to that.

Thanks to everyone for the help.

 

[Hellamatic]

Also while on the subject of grounding, google "hypergrounding" sometime. Basically, the general theory is to ground the sh!t out of the electrical system of your vehicle in order to provide as low of a resistance as possible for all of the circuits. The end result is that you actually gain horsepower and fuel efficiency due to increased efficiency of your electrical system as a whole. It sounds too good to be true, but the results are there to back it up.

Sorry for the hijack, but it is definitely something worth looking at. I plan on hypergrounding my Tundra at some point, but have yet to get around to it - maybe someone with some time on their hands could do it and post a thread.

 

[GrantK]

Grantk,

What makes the point where the factory ground wire connects so special?

It is a known 'approved' ground. Using another point can cause poor grounding and a galvanic reaction resulting in rusting.

 

[GrantK]

Also while on the subject of grounding, google "hypergrounding" sometime. Basically, the general theory is to ground the sh!t out of the electrical system of your vehicle in order to provide as low of a resistance as possible for all of the circuits. The end result is that you actually gain horsepower and fuel efficiency due to increased efficiency of your electrical system as a whole. It sounds too good to be true, but the results are there to back it up.

Sorry for the hijack, but it is definitely something worth looking at. I plan on hypergrounding my Tundra at some point, but have yet to get around to it - maybe someone with some time on their hands could do it and post a thread.

Hypergrounding is a simple concept, increase ground wire size and don't rely on chassis grounds since they have more resistance than a copper wire running directly to the battery. This provides maximum current flow and minimal lag between demand and availability. It is done to the ground side since electrons flow from the negative battery terminal through the grounds to the circuit then back through the positive power cable to the battery. I know this sounds backwards but if you about it for awhile it makes sense. Electricity is made of electrons which are negatively charged and just like a magnet, negative repels negative so the electrons flow from the negative terminal to positive. It's one of the first lessons you learn in electronics and messes with your brain for awhile.

 

[Hellamatic]

Hypergrounding is a simple concept, increase ground wire size and don't rely on chassis grounds since they have more resistance than a copper wire running directly to the battery. This provides maximum current flow and minimal lag between demand and availability. It is done to the ground side since electrons flow from the negative battery terminal through the grounds to the circuit then back through the positive power cable to the battery. I know this sounds backwards but if you about it for awhile it makes sense. Electricity is made of electrons which are negatively charged and just like a magnet, negative repels negative so the electrons flow from the negative terminal to positive. It's one of the first lessons you learn in electronics and messes with your brain for awhile.

True - conventional current flow vs electron flow. Bringing back memories of the "left hand rule," haha.