Help!!!!

[miniracer]

The torque converter should be able to spin freely when unbolted from the flexplate, and should also be able to be pushed away from the flexplate by a few millimeters when the engine and trans are bolted together. If yours does not then it's likely the torque converter was not seated in the pump all the way. If this is the case then you could have caused damage to the torque converter or the pump. The other possibility is the used motor came out of a 5 speed vehicle and still has the pilot bearing in the end of the crank. I don't think you would be able to get the engine and trans bolted all the way if this was the case though. I have seen it done before and the guy doing the engine swap actually broke an ear off the new engine he was installing.

 

[Pelirow]

Thanks for the comments fellas.

We unbolted the tranny and engine, couple mm of play, and the crankshaft is now turning, but it's turning the torque converter with it so they're still wedged together.

Pushing on the TQ doesn't give any play at all.

Plan now is to drop the tranny to make sure we can seat the TQ properly, inspect for any damage, etc.

 

[awpsome]

What's wrong with the timing job?? The cam pulley marks are offset by the same amount. That's correct. The lines on the belt are completely irrelevant after the first rotation. There is absolutely no reason to set them at TDC; you have to put the pulley marks at TDC. So you can't really get any info from looking at the bottom pulley pic because that pulley SHOULD be off by TWICE the angle the two cam pulleys at the top are, and they are quite a bit off.

You should not need to pull the plugs to turn the crank. Timing in any case can't affect the ability to turn the crank.

Unfortunately, I have no clue what might lock it up like that. Was it for sure the engine was free before it was put in?How about before the trans went on?

Long shot is pull the starter if it's in. Otherwise pull the TB and see if it is crank or one of the cams. Even possible something got jammed behind crank pulley when it got torqued on. That would do it.

I wonder if somebody did not have a holder tool and used the old rope in the cylinder trick to torque the crank bolt and then forgot to take it out. Pull the plugs and look to check. Thing is, that would only lock up in one direction.

Durk is 100% correct. The marks now are not an indication that there is any issue with the timing belt job.

As for the lock up, it really could be a lot of things. If the trans & motor aren't connected yet, unbolt the motor mounts and physically pull them apart then try spinning the motor again. If it moves, you've found your issue.

Okay, from my understanding why else are TDC marks going to be there if the person isn't going to use them. The reason why those marks are important is that the cams need to be aligned with the crank otherwise your going to have that motor run like shit. But if your defense I understand yes, those cams do seem to APPEAR to look like they are the same amount off, now lets give that the benefit of the doubt and say those cams are set equally offset to make them "correct" when you go to align the crank pulley, WHY would anyone want to make it a harder process on themselves to get that set correct? yes the crank pulley would be set double the cams, so the mechanic will now have to either count teeth and/or double check to make sure its aligned properly. BUT if it was set properly in the first place with the markings then it would be much easier/safer/smarter to set. Timing belts are very important to the motor, obviously, and I find it one of those things you don't half ass on or do another way than the standard. If those cams are off, your valve timings are off.

Ive seen a timing belt job have one tooth off, and it seemed to run fine, then after a while the owner realized the motor was starting to overheat, come to find out the timing belt was the culprit. having only one tooth off made it run slightly hotter with the valve timing off and then caused overheating.

I also agree, its hard to say with the pictures provided.

 

[awpsome]

Thanks for the comments fellas.

We unbolted the tranny and engine, couple mm of play, and the crankshaft is now turning, but it's turning the torque converter with it so they're still wedged together.

Pushing on the TQ doesn't give any play at all.

Plan now is to drop the tranny to make sure we can seat the TQ properly, inspect for any damage, etc.

wait what? you guys unbolted the trans from the torque convertor? Usually people leave the torque convertor on the trans otherwise you guys are probably having trans fluid EVERYWHERE.

sorry I am having hard time understanding at what stage you guys are at because of the lack of information but from my understanding if that torque convertor is still bolted to the motor and not the trans then yes it should be spinning with the crank.

My next guess is that you should double check to make sure that torque convertor was seated all the way in the trans, from what I remember there is a "second" half step that you should feel when putting that torque convertor to the trans.

 

[TheDurk]

Okay, from my understanding why else are TDC marks going to be there if the person isn't going to use them. The reason why those marks are important is that the cams need to be aligned with the crank otherwise your going to have that motor run like shit. But if your defense I understand yes, those cams do seem to APPEAR to look like they are the same amount off, now lets give that the benefit of the doubt and say those cams are set equally offset to make them "correct" when you go to align the crank pulley, WHY would anyone want to make it a harder process on themselves to get that set correct? yes the crank pulley would be set double the cams, so the mechanic will now have to either count teeth and/or double check to make sure its aligned properly. BUT if it was set properly in the first place with the markings then it would be much easier/safer/smarter to set. Timing belts are very important to the motor, obviously, and I find it one of those things you don't half ass on or do another way than the standard. If those cams are off, your valve timings are off.

Ive seen a timing belt job have one tooth off, and it seemed to run fine, then after a while the owner realized the motor was starting to overheat, come to find out the timing belt was the culprit. having only one tooth off made it run slightly hotter with the valve timing off and then caused overheating.

I also agree, its hard to say with the pictures provided.

You are assuming the pic was taken right after the TB was installed. If you have ever done one, and I have to assume you haven't, you would know that after putting the TB on, using BOTH the belt marks AND the pulley marks, any decent mechanic will rotate the crank twice and then re-check the timing. At that point, you can no longer use the marks on the belt because they won't line up with anything--you have to use only the marks on the pulleys. Finally, you still have to torque the crank pulley bolt to finish the job. So where things end up as far as those belt marks and the crank pulley final position is just random. I repeat, you can't make any negative comment about how the timing job was done based on those pics--full stop, end of story. He probably used the marks on the belt when he originally did the job, but you will never know unless you ask him.

Post-job, the only way to check if the timing is right is put the three pulleys so all the marks are at TDC, and just forget about the marks on the belt. For that, we need different pics.

 

[02SE]

Okay, from my understanding why else are TDC marks going to be there if the person isn't going to use them. The reason why those marks are important is that the cams need to be aligned with the crank otherwise your going to have that motor run like shit. But if your defense I understand yes, those cams do seem to APPEAR to look like they are the same amount off, now lets give that the benefit of the doubt and say those cams are set equally offset to make them "correct" when you go to align the crank pulley, WHY would anyone want to make it a harder process on themselves to get that set correct? yes the crank pulley would be set double the cams, so the mechanic will now have to either count teeth and/or double check to make sure its aligned properly. BUT if it was set properly in the first place with the markings then it would be much easier/safer/smarter to set. Timing belts are very important to the motor, obviously, and I find it one of those things you don't half ass on or do another way than the standard. If those cams are off, your valve timings are off.

Ive seen a timing belt job have one tooth off, and it seemed to run fine, then after a while the owner realized the motor was starting to overheat, come to find out the timing belt was the culprit. having only one tooth off made it run slightly hotter with the valve timing off and then caused overheating.

I also agree, its hard to say with the pictures provided.

Why do you think the timing wasn't set correctly when the timing belt was replaced?

As has already been said, the white installation marks on the timing belt, are for installation only.

The OP incorrectly lined up the now-irrelevant white installation mark on the T-belt with the timing notch in the cam cover. What he should have lined up is the timing notches in both cam pulleys, and the crank pulley, while the engine was at TDC.

Now if he were to bring the motor back to TDC and the timing notches don't line up, then we can say the timing belt was improperly installed.

Edit: TheDurk beat me to it.

 

[4RunnerKyle]

Update..... After a long day.. Finally making progress.... Unbolted the transmission from the engine enough to align the TQ properly and it seemed to pop in place , we may have tightened too much on one point causing it to go in unevenly and thus binding.... Also readjusted the jack holding up the transmission to even it out and it seemed to help as well.The TQ was never disconnected from the transmission...just the flywheel

Bellhousing bolts are done.... Flywheel bolts are done... Starter is in but not tightened yet..... The rest should just be smooth as its putting the ac compressor, ps pump, alternator, drive belts, and all the fluids in along with the airbox, throttle cables, and vaccum hoses and then it should roar back to life.

Now, as for TDC.... Should the notch on the bottom pulley be at 0 while having the two cam notches line up....it's freewheeling now with ease so I can check that easily....someone confirm this..

 

[SST221]

Confirmed, good idea to check but it looked fine to me in the picture. I beleave the torque converter inadvertently slid forward off the input at some point causing your problem. Glad to hear you got it taken care of.

 

[DeathCougar]

Yikes, gotta be careful with these forums and some of this wild guessing nonsense.

Couple of points, albeit already made:

1. 5VZFE Is a non interference engine. The relation of the cam and crank gears have zero to do with OP's problem. If the crank doesn't spin, you have another problem.

2. Timing is correct on this engine, but the marks are there to set initial timing only. Timing a 5VZ is super easy to do; Set the crank to zero, both cams straight up, and viola! Once the engine rotates one time, the marks on the belt are no longer relevant.

3. The torque converter has to be "double seated" in the transmission before you drop the engine in. The end of the converter has two notches, that correspond to "pegs" on the front pump. Converter looks like this: http://images.oreillyauto.com/parts/img/large/pro/to40b-1.jpg. It doesn't go in "unevenly" while seating it, it either clicks in or it doesn't. This is why you never bolt the trans together unless the bellhousing is FLUSH with the trans by HAND. Even if you don't think you moved it....check it. Not doing so will lead to major binding (Op's ACTUAL problem) and often times a broken front pump. Can't tell you how many of these I have personally fixed from other shops who know nothing about Toyota's.

4. Once the engine is dropped in, the torque converter should spin freely by hand without binding anywhere on the flexplate, or anywhere else. You will end up with about 1/8" or so space between the flexplate and the torque converter if you did it all right. This allows you to move the converter to line up with the bolt holes.

5. The rear driveline connection to the trans/rear end has absolutely NOTHING to do with the torque converter, and having it connected will not stop it from turning even if the truck is in park. If it did, how could the engine run with the truck in park/neutral/in gear without a clutch?

SST221 Confirmed what you said, and I am backing up his confirmation, as well as confirming the converter was the problem. Hopefully you did not damage the front pump forcing it together (btw this is why you NEVER EVER EVER force them together!!!!)

 

[awpsome]

Just to confirm I'm not talking about the markings on the belt nor was I ever talking about those. My understandings were the markings on the cam and the plate being incorrect and "way off" I took it as the motor being frozen just after it was put in and that the markings of the crank seemed way off compared to the cam markings. Yes once again I agree that the crank is set double the cams but from my judgment in the hard to see photos it seemed the timing was off but I did not say that it mattered or had relation to the problem of the crank not spinning. It was a side precaution to the OP that the timing belt needed to be closely examined before even trying to get it running.

I have no idea why the crank wasn't spinning other then my guess that hopefully it was not a motor that was pre seized and maybe a motor which was sitting for a long time. But that was already cleared up later the first post that the transmission was then taken off and the motor moved freely.

No need to get defensive over a small precaution post to the OP. I'm only doing my part to look after fellow members. Like I said before, I've seen bad timing jobs and this was one was looking off. It's hard to say from the photos but my initial impression was that the cams apart from left and right looked off in relevance to each other and the crank especially should be checked in relation to those cams.

 

[TheDurk]

Update..... After a long day.. Finally making progress.... Unbolted the transmission from the engine enough to align the TQ properly and it seemed to pop in place , we may have tightened too much on one point causing it to go in unevenly and thus binding.... Also readjusted the jack holding up the transmission to even it out and it seemed to help as well.The TQ was never disconnected from the transmission...just the flywheel

Bellhousing bolts are done.... Flywheel bolts are done... Starter is in but not tightened yet..... The rest should just be smooth as its putting the ac compressor, ps pump, alternator, drive belts, and all the fluids in along with the airbox, throttle cables, and vaccum hoses and then it should roar back to life.

Now, as for TDC.... Should the notch on the bottom pulley be at 0 while having the two cam notches line up....it's freewheeling now with ease so I can check that easily....someone confirm this..

Glad you got it. The answer to the ? is yes. Once the pulley is on and seated in the key, you can use the timing scale for TDC.

 

[TheDurk]

Just to confirm I'm not talking about the markings on the belt nor was I ever talking about those. My understandings were the markings on the cam and the plate being incorrect and "way off" I took it as the motor being frozen just after it was put in and that the markings of the crank seemed way off compared to the cam markings. Yes once again I agree that the crank is set double the cams but from my judgment in the hard to see photos it seemed the timing was off but I did not say that it mattered or had relation to the problem of the crank not spinning. It was a side precaution to the OP that the timing belt needed to be closely examined before even trying to get it running.

I have no idea why the crank wasn't spinning other then my guess that hopefully it was not a motor that was pre seized and maybe a motor which was sitting for a long time. But that was already cleared up later the first post that the transmission was then taken off and the motor moved freely.

No need to get defensive over a small precaution post to the OP. I'm only doing my part to look after fellow members. Like I said before, I've seen bad timing jobs and this was one was looking off. It's hard to say from the photos but my initial impression was that the cams apart from left and right looked off in relevance to each other and the crank especially should be checked in relation to those cams.

I'm not defensive about anything. You said:

either way that timing job is the worst ive ever seen, its to bad it sounds like you already dropped the motor in, but that has to be redone

and I felt compelled to challenge that so that the OP did not chase undomesticated waterfowl. If I misunderstood WHY you thought that, I can be forgiven as your post was certainly not clear on that point.

 

[Pelirow]

Update: everything is hooked up and motor is running. Nothing has blown up yet, but we are experiencing smoke that appears to be leaking from where the crossover pipe connects to the exhaust.

Gonna try to tighten the bolts more tomorrow morn. Any suggestions for trying to get those pipes as flush as possible?