High Performance 5VZFE?

[JamesDean91]

Yea SC is the way to go. Usually when people build up motors like this or 4 cylinders its to run high HP on a turbo or nitrous. You just cant get the performance from these like you can say on an N/A v8. Im having a buddy build me a motor that can handle up too 1000hp on my talon build, but without a huge power adder it would probably only lay down 220hp. So if you built out the 3.4l it would need some huge turbo to be worth it.

There was a guy on another forum that got rid of toyota management and installed some kind of standalone and claimed he was getting around 250 whp just off that

 

[JayRolla]

There was a guy on another forum that got rid of toyota management and installed some kind of standalone and claimed he was getting around 250 whp just off that

He claimed be made 250whp off just tuning? Wow this guy is pretty bad ass. Thats over 100whp from just a tune. Good stuff.

 

[JamesDean91]

He claimed be made 250whp off just tuning? Wow this guy is pretty bad ass. Thats over 100whp from just a tune. Good stuff.

It was just a claim lol but I do know first hand the toyota management is really restrictive. I know a guy who does legit drifting with a Ls400 and when he went to a 6 speed manual tremek he also went to a stand alone system and on the dyno after doing both he gained 102 whp

 

[JayRolla]

It was just a claim lol but I do know first hand the toyota management is really restrictive. I know a guy who does legit drifting with a Ls400 and when he went to a 6 speed manual tremek he also went to a stand alone system and on the dyno after doing both he gained 102 whp

With which motor? Na? v8 or the 2gz. I know a lot about those cars. Huge IS fan myself. But thats damn near impossible if its still N/A. Also the tremek is a PITA when going from the auto. But the auto is better for power, can handle more than the 6 speeds but not good for drifting.

If he has a turbo kit than yes thats possible but without forced induction thats pretty hard to say is possible.

 

[JamesDean91]

With which motor? Na? v8 or the 2gz. I know a lot about those cars. Huge IS fan myself. But thats damn near impossible if its still N/A. Also the tremek is a PITA when going from the auto. But the auto is better for power, can handle more than the 6 speeds but not good for drifting.

And the tremek is far better then the a340e. I'm not dogging the auto I love them but for his application and power he plans on putting down I think he was talking about some kind of power adder or itbs he will have more usability in the power ranges.
If he has a turbo kit than yes thats possible but without forced induction thats pretty hard to say is possible.

1uz it was a built motor before stand alone, 2uz block vvti heads a bunch of other goodies he had done to the motor before going to stand alone, but with all those the toyota ecu was way to restrictive and he kind of hit the limits of it. He was going to go piggy back but he gained a couple sponsors and went with I think haltech.

 

[kgbdonkey]

I know of one built to handle 20+ pounds of boost. But it has custom pistons,rods,cams and a crap load of machine work. But it sits in a basement waiting for me to buy i t one day.

 

[MTD]

There are a few places that offer built 5VZFE's but as stated they are few in number and a lot of them (LCE) no longer advertise this. Here is a list of just a few I have found in the past:

Import Performance Parts - Toyota HP Engine Kits

3.4L Toyota 5VZFE Dressed Long Block - 5VZFE 34L-DB-9504 - TEAMYOTA

Toyota Performance Parts | LCEPerformance.com

TTC Performance used to make some BA stuff in the past as well:

http://ttcperformanceproducts.com/index.html

 

[Ruiner]

Yea SC is the way to go. Usually when people build up motors like this or 4 cylinders its to run high HP on a turbo or nitrous. You just cant get the performance from these like you can say on an N/A v8. Im having a buddy build me a motor that can handle up too 1000hp on my talon build, but without a huge power adder it would probably only lay down 220hp. So if you built out the 3.4l it would need some huge turbo to be worth it.

watch out for that crankwalk. You should see if you can find a dodge colt and swap the 4g63 into that. Tiny car, no weight, big hp motor, and lots of fun.

 

[JayRolla]

watch out for that crankwalk. You should see if you can find a dodge colt and swap the 4g63 into that. Tiny car, no weight, big hp motor, and lots of fun.

Been building these cars since year 2000. Never had crankwalk. Usually a 7 bolt 4g63t issue and happens when running very large pressure plate on the clutch. All that pressure pushing the crank in and wearing out bearings. But my buddy that runs a big shop has pretty much eliminated it on his 7 bolt builds which Im having him do. I also am fine with the 2g talon AWD platform. Its okay to have a little weight with the power I'll be making.

Here is his Crankwalk writeup. Its a long one but man he has figured it out to a T pretty much.

CRANK WALK

When you have a crank walk issue, the engine crankshaft thrust bearing is wearing down and causing the crankshaft to 'walk' forward and back. This is a very common issue with the 2G DSM 7-bolt engines.

I probably have more experience with crank walk than anyone. We have rebuilt 7-bolts for a very long time and rebuild many engines a week (yes, we are a trans shop but also rebuild many engines). What I have learned over the years is any engine can walk and for a number of reasons. When you think you know what the problem is, an engine will come along which will walk for a different reason and bite you on the ass again. These are the reasons I have found to cause a 7-bolt to walk:

1) When using the 2-piece thrust, the alignment between the two halves have to be perfect or the edge will act like a squeegee and wipe off the oil from the crank thrust surface. You would be amazed at how cleanly and perfectly an edge can wipe down a crank. Anyone that follows the correct engine assembly procedures will center these and not have this problem, though.

2) If the main bearing clearance is tighter than the rod clearance, the engine will walk.

3) The narrow style of the 2G rod bearings tend to make a 7-bolt walk more than if 6-bolt bearings (the wider early bearings) are used.

4) Excessive aftermarket rod clearance will make an engine walk.

What we have discovered is when a 7-bolt engine walks, the thrust and mains are wiped out, but in most cases, the rod bearings look to be perfect. It looks like the mains run dry and the rods continue to have oil fed to them. The question due to this observation is how is that possible? How can an engine, which feeds the rods via forcing oil through the mains to begin with, lose oil in the mains yet continue to feed the rods? You would think the rod bearings would be the first to go, but that's not the case.

The answer appears to be that centrifugal forces are the cause. The rod orbits the crank, and due to this orbit it can pull oil away from the mains. So much in fact that it can create a vacuum at the mains and starve the thrust. What appears to cause this are 2 things. 1) The oil passages in the crank are too large and 2) the rods are leaking too much oil away too quickly for the system to be able to keep up.

The oil pump is linear with engine RPM, so as the engine RPM increases, so does the oil pump flow, but it is still not enough to counter the oil loss at the rods. The higher the RPM, the higher the oil pressure, but you also get more centrifugal forces, so an engine can walk at idle or at any RPM, which we find to be true on walking engines. Hold an idle on a walking engine and push the clutch, you will see the RPMs dip. Hold the engine at a steady 3k RPM and push the clutch, the RPMs will also dip there too.

I thought I had a solution several years ago, but did not discover the centrifugal force issue until a few years ago. For the past few years I have been using this knowledge for my 7-bolt engine rebuilds. I would say during that time we have rebuilt around 80-100 7-bolts and 1 has walked giving us a 1% failure rate. Yes, we rebuild a huge number of engines here on top of transmissions, not too many people know that. That's not too bad and worth the loss from a business stand point. What I do to counter the walking issue today is this:

1) I use only 6-bolt rods as they are wider than the 7-bolt crank. I will then narrow each rod at the big end individually to match the crank journal in which it will be assigned to. This way I can assure a snug and perfect rod side clearance with the crank to prevent excessive oil loss due to centrifugal forces. Both the factory and aftermarket 7-bolt rods are terribly stupid loose, so that's not good. Modifying a 6-bolt rod to fit as it's supposed to assures everything is as it should be.

2) I will resize the big end of the rod as most (not all) aftermarket rods are too loose with bearing clearance. I believe cheap rod manufacturers do this to cover their ass, but excessive clearance causes other issues to the consumer which is not good.

3) I will use only the wider early style 6-bolt rod bearings as they tend to not only live longer and have more surface area, but they hold more oil in to prevent loss.

4) The crank oil passages are too large. So large that they can continue to feed oil to the rods as the mains don't get enough. I modify the passages so as to increase oil pressure at the mains yet still give the rods adequate oil to live a long and trouble free service life.

I have been thinking of adding my modified crank, rods and piston sets to my website for those willing to build their own 7-bolt, but I am a bit afraid to. The DSM community is very hard on those which try to come up with a repair that elitists believe there is no possible solution for, and anytime I think I have a solid solution to this walking issue I get a sharp bite on the ass. Not only do I get a bite on the ass, but the bite clamps down hard on my butt cheek and follows me around for years afterward. It's not worth the hit to my companies good reputation which we have worked so very hard for. I have been quiet about my latest modifications which appear to be working well for this walking issue, but I know as soon as I offer something on my website, I will get hit again. The 1 engine which failed had 7-bolt rods in it. I would be willing to bet that if that engine had my 6-bolt rods fitted to the crank, that it would have lived. That was one of those odd deals where the customer already had 7-bolt style forged rods. Either way, it did walk, so I count it against my totals for the past few years. I have to admit it's an impressive number, though.

On another note, people seem to think that heavy pressure plates cause crank walk too. I found that to be untrue. If your engine is going to walk, it will walk with a factory clutch. I have seen 7-bolts walk in factory OEM trim and even with automatics. Thrust pressure has nothing to do with it, it's a lubrication issue. If you have no oil reaching a bearing, it's toast.

I personally believe that the 7-bolt engine is a superior engine over the 6 and have spent insane money and time trying to figure the walking issue out. I believe my solutions which appear to work today not only help prevent the engine from walking, but also offer the customer a much higher quality engine with very accurate and meticulous machine work which many others don't feel the need to perform to their builds. I do these same things with the EVO engine too and they appear to also perform very well. I suppose there is nothing wrong with a little more attention to detail, but maybe I'm just wasting my time. Either way, I feel more comfortable fitting everything to my specs and in the way it was intended to be to begin with...

I swore in the past that I would not share this information, because to be honest the DSM community can be very critical at times and due to this i didn't feel like sharing my hard work and findings to the public. I have since changed my mind. At this point, rebuilding engines is no longer a very profitable thing for this company. With the large number of high end complex transmissions coming in from $100k+ exotic vehicles, the profit margin and quantity of units we receive make the engine building something which is no longer worth it for us. If you see engine build options on the site, we are still performing the rebuilds at this time, but who knows for the future. Engine building via Jacks Trans may soon be a thing of the past. I have decided to share this info now as any of the DSM elitists out there which would claim this info as their own and use it to their own advantage will no longer affect us, so I decided to let the info go. I'm sure it will help more people that would appreciate it over the ones that don't.
Good luck with your 7-bolt build and we hope you stick the the 7. They are a far better engine in many ways and to install a 6-bolt in your 2G has always been something we thought was a move in the wrong direction.

Jack

 

[Ruiner]

Been building these cars since year 2000. Never had crankwalk. Usually a 7 bolt 4g63t issue and happens when running very large pressure plate on the clutch. All that pressure pushing the crank in and wearing out bearings. But my buddy that runs a big shop has pretty much eliminated it on his 7 bolt builds which Im having him do. I also am fine with the 2g talon AWD platform. Its okay to have a little weight with the power I'll be making.

Here is his Crankwalk writeup. Its a long one but man he has figured it out to a T pretty much.

yeah i used to work for a local shop that built DSM/honda cars for a few years (4g63, 420a, and 4g64 variants (mostly used stratus engines in first gen neons with lots of spray))

 

[JayRolla]

yeah i used to work for a local shop that built DSM/honda cars for a few years (4g63, 420a, and 4g64 variants (mostly used stratus engines in first gen neons with lots of spray))

Naice. Yeah we dont like hondas. AWD guys here. We did have some 420a neons, turboed back in the day he woudl build. But we mainly stayed with the DSM. Im a 2.0 4663t guy myself, high rev, handle power reliable Damn 4g64 cranked 2.0l's like to throw rods.

Now he makes his money doing 800+whp GTR builds. He is about to give up on the dsm and Lancer platform as the money is not as good. Where talking a 10k build compared to these guys spending $45k on there GTR build.

Sad to say but the older imports are about to be a thing of the past. No money building them anymore. But im still building my high altitude 9 second 2.0l street car before I cant anymore. LOL. Lets just say wife is not happy about it.

 

[gamefreakgc]

But im still building my high altitude 9 second 2.0l street car before I cant anymore. LOL. Lets just say wife is not happy about it.

I know right?

I have all these plans to beef up the 4Runner with meth injection, and later up the injectors and add a piggy back and a smaller pulley... and then when I asked the wife it was all shot down with "I thought we were saving for...". Maybe later this year... or next year... :cry2:

 

[UnderFire]

I've never understood why you don't see more guys with the V6 using actual engine management hardware, the aftermarket support is there, Boomslang even makes plug and play harnesses for a ton of different AFC's, Apex'i, AEM, Haltech, Motec etc. It's been proven that the engine can take quite a bit of boost, but guys still dump thousands into the S/C set-up to get like 8-10lbs.

Boomslang Fabrication - The Performance Wiring Specialists

 

[Ruiner]

Naice. Yeah we dont like hondas. AWD guys here. We did have some 420a neons, turboed back in the day he woudl build. But we mainly stayed with the DSM. Im a 2.0 4663t guy myself, high rev, handle power reliable Damn 4g64 cranked 2.0l's like to throw rods.

Now he makes his money doing 800+whp GTR builds. He is about to give up on the dsm and Lancer platform as the money is not as good. Where talking a 10k build compared to these guys spending $45k on there GTR build.

Sad to say but the older imports are about to be a thing of the past. No money building them anymore. But im still building my high altitude 9 second 2.0l street car before I cant anymore. LOL. Lets just say wife is not happy about it.

that is the damn truth, it was cheaper to buy stock long blocks and swap them out every few months than to build something somewhat reliable. The DSM market is deff gettin killed with the only 4g coming in a 40k awd car now. Its pretty active in central and south america, i know a few guys that moved down there to tune and build them since the market is so strong down there and little to no emissions laws.

 

[Ruiner]

I've never understood why you don't see more guys with the V6 using actual engine management hardware, the aftermarket support is there, Boomslang even makes plug and play harnesses for a ton of different AFC's, Apex'i, AEM, Haltech, Motec etc. It's been proven that the engine can take quite a bit of boost, but guys still dump thousands into the S/C set-up to get like 8-10lbs.

Boomslang Fabrication - The Performance Wiring Specialists

i think its mostly that for what most people use them for, a stockish 3.4l is more than enough (mini truckers excluded, if thats even still a thing). 99% of the time im offroad i never make it out of 2nd gear, much less need a billion HP. Cheaper and more satisfying to make a fast car faster, than a slow SUV not as slow. I dump my go fast money in this POS

 

[gamefreakgc]

I've never understood why you don't see more guys with the V6 using actual engine management hardware, the aftermarket support is there, Boomslang even makes plug and play harnesses for a ton of different AFC's, Apex'i, AEM, Haltech, Motec etc. It's been proven that the engine can take quite a bit of boost, but guys still dump thousands into the S/C set-up to get like 8-10lbs.

Boomslang Fabrication - The Performance Wiring Specialists

Because it's easy and smog-legal in all 50 states. It's a bolt on HP improvement of up to 75 HP at the crank with no wiring.

But I get what you are saying.

 

[JayRolla]

I know right?

I have all these plans to beef up the 4Runner with meth injection, and later up the injectors and add a piggy back and a smaller pulley... and then when I asked the wife it was all shot down with "I thought we were saving for...". Maybe later this year... or next year... :cry2:

LOL yea. Wife said I have to get her newer Double Cab Tacoma before I can start my DSM drag build. I just have some left over parts from my old build that im going to use. Still looking for a blown motor good body roller with an auto trans and AWD. Very hard to find. 5speeds everywhere.

 

[amalik]

Yea SC is the way to go. Usually when people build up motors like this or 4 cylinders its to run high HP on a turbo or nitrous. You just cant get the performance from these like you can say on an N/A v8. Im having a buddy build me a motor that can handle up too 1000hp on my talon build, but without a huge power adder it would probably only lay down 220hp. So if you built out the 3.4l it would need some huge turbo to be worth it.

1,000 hp on your Talon? Seems a bit overkill for how light they are?

 

[JayRolla]

1,000 hp on your Talon? Seems a bit overkill for how light they are?

I didnt say im going to make 1000hp, it can handle it. And at 3150lb curb weight its really not that light. Its not going to have much for weight reduction, if anything some cage work with make it heavier.

Also at our altitude to get into the 9's im going to need to make over 700whp. I have already had a high 11 second 400+whp build. Its time to go big or go home.

 

[1985taylor1925]

LC Engineering has been mentioned a few time. OP, FYI, I was looking at their motors a few years ago, and a completely built 3.4 was $8000. I remember it was advertised as "capable of producing over 300 hp". I think what they were saying was you could supercharge or turbo charge that engine and run it very comfortably at over 300 hp. But youre talking about $10000. As others have already mentioned, would be better to just add forced induction.