HOT REAR DRUM Help..

[gh426]

2001 4runner 2wd v6, watched utubes, did front pads and rear shoes, driver side drum was hard to install, adjusted star wheel down much more than other side.

It did spin however, whilst on jack stand. yanked on e brake, maybe too much,
drove it 100 miles, seemed great! however 2 days ago, car was stopping whilst idling, never did this before, touched wheel, hot as hell!!! DDDdddooohh!

did the 2 screwdriver FSM, car will idle down the street all day now, GREAT BUT
the drum is still hotter than the passanger side... pedal seems lower (yet still frim) after adjust of at least 6-7 flicks with screwdriver. don't really want to go lower unless someone here has been there done that...

all tips tricks suggestions welcome.

Thanks in advance

G

 

[Acorn22]

Make sure your E-brake is adjusted correctly. I accidentally roasted a drum on my wagoneer because I had the e-brake slightly depressed. Also, just thinking out loud but maybe the piston is sticking and not going back in all of the way which is cooking the drum.

 

[gh426]

Thx 4 reply

My e brake has been loose from day 1, I did get 127k miles out of my factory drum shoes.

I recently had my driver side rear bearing go out my shop is very good they did a great job, and they left the e-brake as was. I physically wrestled with the shoes and the Pistons in the wheel cylinder we're going in and out no problem.

I may dejust the star 2 more flicks and drive 2 see...

Thanks 4 ur reply.

G

 

[kolelt]

I hate the drums in the back. Almost EVERYTIME you off road and do water, mud crossing. You need to re adjust the rear drums.

 

[gh426]

Thx 4 reply, bummer, im purely a city slicker

Has anyone swapped in rear discs?, hopefully on z cheap?. I'd b down 4 this once someone else has worked out z bugz...

 

[OldManKamps]

2001 4runner 2wd v6, watched utubes, did front pads and rear shoes, driver side drum was hard to install, adjusted star wheel down much more than other side.

It did spin however, whilst on jack stand. yanked on e brake, maybe too much,
drove it 100 miles, seemed great! however 2 days ago, car was stopping whilst idling, never did this before, touched wheel, hot as hell!!! DDDdddooohh!

did the 2 screwdriver FSM, car will idle down the street all day now, GREAT BUT
the drum is still hotter than the passanger side... pedal seems lower (yet still frim) after adjust of at least 6-7 flicks with screwdriver. don't really want to go lower unless someone here has been there done that...

all tips tricks suggestions welcome.

Thanks in advance

G

Your shop probably damaged the inner axle seal and didn't replace it. Your drum is now getting gear oil into it which is getting burned up by the shoes and causing your drum to get ****ing hot. Jack it up, pop off the drum and check for any black sludgy stuff baked on the groove of the drum and covering all the brake parts.

 

[JRZEE2000TR4LTD]

I hate the drums in the back. Almost EVERYTIME you off road and do water, mud crossing. You need to re adjust the rear drums.

This is so true.

 

[gh426]

ok updates

ok i loosened the star at least 20-25 teeth, it now runs much cooler, I can leave my hand on it after 3 miles @ 45mph, the car brakes straight, no pulling.

I do not smell anything like burning grease or oil, however please survey the attached jpegs and let me know if the axle seals are present in my bag O old parts which i always, ALWAYS demand the shop, any shop GIVE back to me...

The LR drum is still hotter than the passanger side, but much cooler than the front rotors.

My receipt shows 2 "wheel" seals, could this mean Axle seals?? one was $7 another was $14.

After the wheel bearing i put 1900 miles on it prior to doing the shoes, I can attest to the driver side being WAY cleaner, scrubbed, very little dust as compared to the other drum.

is 12k miles or 1year warranty good or just So-So..?
Should both rear wheel bearings be changed? or because they are sealed its rare that they fail??

Also OldManKamps or anyone else if you have the specs, ie ID, OD thickness etc on my pictured parts... my calipers await !!

I want this 4Runner to LAST!!!

 

[Donny Voodoo]

yes, 2 axle seals are pictured.

I'd adjust the star wheels as loose as you can, then put the wheels back on. They should spin freely at least several rotations. Next, remove the plug on the backside of the backing plate and adjust the star wheel whilst spinning the wheel. Once you feel and hear a bit of friction, you are done.

 

[derekwilliams345]

how the "F" did they get those retaining collars off without cutting em?!? i always have to cut mine off... yes I've had to do it a few times between three 3rd gens... but I'm also using a HF press, so.....

i see 2 retaining collars, 1 inner axle seal (primary), 1 outer axle seal (more of a dust shield), 1 wheel bearing, and 1 ABS exciter wheel. They must have re-used your retaining clip. From what i can see, they do good work, unless they bent your backing plate to hell trying to press those retaining collars off.

Ive heard of people having issues with the ebrake elbow/lever sticking. Its the elbow piece the ebrake cable attaches to on the backing plate.

Ive also heard of trouble with self-adjusters being sticky and they just keep tightening down.

I always run a few clicks on the self adjuster, spin the drum a little to feel if its close, and then press the brakes to square the shoes in the drum. Then adjust a few more clicks, twist the drum for friction, and then press the pedal to square. i repeat until there is just a little bit of friction when you rotate the drum. Typically the e-brake bites hard around 2/3 pull and if i yank it all the way up it will lock em. If my e-brake bites after 2-3 clicks then theres a good chance my brakes are adjusted too tight.

There are rear disc conversions available but you have to do away with your traditional e-brake and convert to a driveline style disc brake setup which i think does adapt to your stock e-brake cable... I'm thinking about going to a non-abs rear axle and doing disc brakes soon drums are just too damn finicky in the sand and mud. bake off your wheel paint before you can even smell it. lol

 

[gamefreakgc]

I was always told to adjust the rear brakes & e-brake by driving at a slow speed, around 10 mph and then yanking the e-brake to stop the vehicle. I do this a few times every time I change drum brakes. Maybe a real mechanic can chime in if this makes a difference at all.

 

[amalik]

I was always told to adjust the rear brakes & e-brake by driving at a slow speed, around 10 mph and then yanking the e-brake to stop the vehicle. I do this a few times every time I change drum brakes. Maybe a real mechanic can chime in if this makes a difference at all.

[MENTION=66389]BlackWorksInc[/MENTION]

Sent from my Acer Chromebook R11 using Tapatalk

 

[gh426]

So

I am now an expert at under the car star wheel loosening... Im strictly a city slicker 2wd, point a to point b no fast, no furious, no monster truck forward flips here. I 'd just as soon change out my front pads 3 x's to doin these damn shoes/drums! It goes quiet, it brakes straight.. IM DONE. it cost in excess of 400 freedom sheckles for those parts to be PRESSED OFF THEN ON along with 12k or 12 months of NO WORRY, backing plate is straight as an ARROW. God bless my shop. My e brake has NEVER fully stopped the car, that includes it coming off the lot lo these 16 years now...

Thanks to all here, will be doin more stuff on my 4runR within my small garage/skill level.

Gotta tighten my slightly leaky valve covers next...
G

 

[BlackWorksInc]

I was always told to adjust the rear brakes & e-brake by driving at a slow speed, around 10 mph and then yanking the e-brake to stop the vehicle. I do this a few times every time I change drum brakes. Maybe a real mechanic can chime in if this makes a difference at all.

I mean... I guess you could do that to bed the brake shoes. But it doesn't adjust the rear brake at all. You do that via the star wheel...

 

[TheDurk]

I mean... I guess you could do that to bed the brake shoes. But it doesn't adjust the rear brake at all. You do that via the star wheel...

Yes, it does. Although you don't need to drive the truck. Operating the E-brake stopped is enough. RTFM.

 

[floatingkiwi]

Also having the adjuster bolts correct on the back of the drum makes a large difference to how well, or not well, the self adjuster system works. Too much gap there and they will over adjust.

Factory spec is 0.4-0.8mm between bell crank and drum when hand brake is off and you pull the bellcrank out lightly to remove slack (and also with the 2 tension springs not installed).

 

[BlackWorksInc]

Yes, it does. Although you don't need to drive the truck. Operating the E-brake stopped is enough. RTFM.

I don't see how that is possible on a traditional drum set-up. The star wheel is not moved by anything but a screw driver physically turning the star wheel itself, that sets the "pre-load" (for lack of a better phrase) to the drum brakes. The star wheel does not turn when the brakes or the Parking Brake is engaged, all those do is lever the shoes against the drum itself. The star wheel adjustment sets the distance of the shoes from the drum so that when the parking brake or the brake is applied the slave cylinder and/or parking cable do not have to travel excessively long distances to apply the drum brakes; which as a consequence can result in a very poor feeling brake pedal as most of the fluid goes to the rear.

Unless I am remembering the 3rd gen rear brake drum set-up wrong, there's nothing in the mechanism that adjusts the Parking Brake after it's been used.

 

[mtbtim]

how the "F" did they get those retaining collars off without cutting em?!? i always have to cut mine off... yes I've had to do it a few times between three 3rd gens... but I'm also using a HF press, so.....

I also have a HF press and you're able to pull inner retainer and ABS gear with a special axle tool like the company Durasolid makes combined with a bearing splitter. Once the ABS gear and inner retainer are off, then you can press out the axle with the special tool and finally press the bearing out.
[MENTION=102606]infamousRNR[/MENTION] have two axle seal videos coming out very soon (ABS and Non-ABS).

 

[TheDurk]

I don't see how that is possible on a traditional drum set-up. The star wheel is not moved by anything but a screw driver physically turning the star wheel itself, that sets the "pre-load" (for lack of a better phrase) to the drum brakes. The star wheel does not turn when the brakes or the Parking Brake is engaged, all those do is lever the shoes against the drum itself. The star wheel adjustment sets the distance of the shoes from the drum so that when the parking brake or the brake is applied the slave cylinder and/or parking cable do not have to travel excessively long distances to apply the drum brakes; which as a consequence can result in a very poor feeling brake pedal as most of the fluid goes to the rear.

Unless I am remembering the 3rd gen rear brake drum set-up wrong, there's nothing in the mechanism that adjusts the Parking Brake after it's been used.

The e-brake cable engages the bellcrank which is connected to a short cable that ends on something called the automatic adjusting lever which is the piece that the star wheel engages. The same lever engages the shoes. If the shoes don't hit the drum, the lever moves far enough that the star wheel is turned one click. If the shoes hit the drum, it can't move that far, and the star wheel stays where it is.

Here is a pic of it:

That U on the brass plate at the top are the two arms that move the star wheel pawl. It's a one-way ratchet, it can tighten but not loosen. That cable on the bottom connects to the e-brake.

Traditional drum setups don't work that way. But our Toyotas do. Each pull on the e-brake will give you one click on the star wheel until the shoes are right.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

The e-brake cable engages the bellcrank which is connected to a short cable that ends on something called the automatic adjusting lever which is the piece that the star wheel engages. The same lever engages the shoes. If the shoes don't hit the drum, the lever moves far enough that the star wheel is turned one click. If the shoes hit the drum, it can't move that far, and the star wheel stays where it is.

Here is a pic of it:

That U on the brass plate at the top are the two arms that move the star wheel pawl. It's a one-way ratchet, it can tighten but not loosen. That cable on the bottom connects to the e-brake.

Traditional drum setups don't work that way. But our Toyotas do. Each pull on the e-brake will give you one click on the star wheel until the shoes are right.

You're right, I've been thinking of a different drum set-up we use on more commonly on rear disc brakes (at least where I see it more regularly) where it doesn't really have that secondary lever to adjust it, some of the smaller cars like Corolla just have a spring assisted stop to let the star wheel turn one way only. To be honest I'm not changing rear drums frequently on 3rd gens... or many Toyotas in general (seriously, Toyotas are very easy on those things! lol) so I forgot about the lever you pictured in the post above since I probably haven't had a set of 3rd gen drums apart in a few months.