How many guys are still on original transmission fluid? Come on in!

[Ratubbs]

I found s shop locally that has the machine that pulls the old fluid out and pumps in the new fluid simultaneously using the transmissions own pump not forcing it in ( essentially this same as using the cooling line method), it's a lil pricy [$199] but I think that's the route I'm gonna go. I would normally do it myself but I'm in the process of moving into a new home and don't have the time. [emoji57]


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[t-man]

I found s shop locally that has the machine that pulls the old fluid out and pumps in the new fluid simultaneously using the transmissions own pump not forcing it in ( essentially this same as using the cooling line method), it's a lil pricy [$199] but I think that's the route I'm gonna go. I would normally do it myself but I'm in the process of moving into a new home and don't have the time. [emoji57]


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Sounds like the same type of exchange unit they used on mine. They told me $175 at first, but quickly worked it down to $150. Lol

I just picked up an 04 4.0 with 218k - took it to the dealership the following day and had the service rep check through their info online and nothing showed up for mine being done at any dealer. Asked about the full flush - he recommended just doing the drain/fill method - got it swapped for $130 and the fluid was definetly old - possibly the original. Happy I moved forward with this. He did mention flushing sometimes uncovers hidden problems (which of course I've heard before).

My full replacement flush, 14 quarts, cost me $150...

Sent from the drivers seat of my 05 4runner.

 

[Mike Beyers]

drain and fill

150K on 2003 with V8, bought with 30K. I do a drain and fill every 30K, cheap and easy, and with every drain the fluid has looked good. I know it's just a dilution, but I think it's frequent enough to keep everything working.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

I'll reiterate again, that a drain and fill, even though some dealers recommend it, is a waste of money. There is 16qts of fluid in your transmission and you are essentially just changing 3 or 4 at a time.

That would be like changing 1-2 quarts of engine oil at a time. Sounds pretty ridiculous when you put it like that?

Most of us have changed the lifetime fluid well past 100k and while it may be dark in color, the majority had no symptoms or performance breakdowns prior to changing the fluid. Fluid breaks down with excessive heat, and with the properly installed coolers on a vehicle, most manufacturers including Toyota seem to keep this in check pretty well for the average vehicle use. Towing is a different story as it adds a lot of extra stress on the transmission, henceforth they recommend changing out the fluid at more frequent intervals.

If you constantly run loaded down near the GVWR, you may want change the fluid more often. Most people drive their vehicles around near empty with one or two people inside.

Heat is the main way fluid breaks down, but friction modifiers, additives, ect. do not last forever. The same is true with coolant, eventually the fluid does break down chemically. The most frustrating thing is that no one in the 10yrs or so that WS ATF has been used can get a complete break-down of the fluid to really get an idea of what we're dealing with.

The best people have done is get bits and pieces of the puzzle, fluid heat ranges being a possible one; unfortunately even the supposed heat ranges that people found for WS ATF are relatively meaningless without context of the rest of the fluid.

Anyways, without getting into it too much an derailing the thread into "What is WS", heat is only part of the reason fluid degrades. Fluid loading up friction material and metal dust, are other examples of things that wear out the additive packages.

 

[bob3dsf]

My second time around, I ran vinyl tube from the top of the engine compartment into the fill hole. I put a funnel into the vinyl tube and secured it upright in the engine compartment. Made refilling a breeze. No more hand pump.

I'm interested in know how you routed your tube. I tried that and I couldn't do it without there being some dips in the run to keep the new fluid from actually flowing into the fill port.

 

[Ratubbs]

I just picked up an 04 4.0 with 218k - took it to the dealership the following day and had the service rep check through their info online and nothing showed up for mine being done at any dealer. Asked about the full flush - he recommended just doing the drain/fill method - got it swapped for $130 and the fluid was definetly old - possibly the original. Happy I moved forward with this. He did mention flushing sometimes uncovers hidden problems (which of course I've heard before).

What all did that include? Did they drop the pan and clean and/or replace the filter?


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[Bluesky 07]

I'll reiterate again, that a drain and fill, even though some dealers recommend it, is a waste of money. There is 16qts of fluid in your transmission and you are essentially just changing 3 or 4 at a time.

That would be like changing 1-2 quarts of engine oil at a time. Sounds pretty ridiculous when you put it like that?

Most of us have changed the lifetime fluid well past 100k and while it may be dark in color, the majority had no symptoms or performance breakdowns prior to changing the fluid. Fluid breaks down with excessive heat, and with the properly installed coolers on a vehicle, most manufacturers including Toyota seem to keep this in check pretty well for the average vehicle use. Towing is a different story as it adds a lot of extra stress on the transmission, henceforth they recommend changing out the fluid at more frequent intervals.

If you constantly run loaded down near the GVWR, you may want change the fluid more often. Most people drive their vehicles around near empty with one or two people inside.

Wondering if there may be some confusion about this term. I agree that a drain and fill that doesn't replace all the fluid seems like a waste. What my local Toyota dealer does for $199 is a fluid exchange - it all comes out and is replaced entirely by new WS. The difference is that it's not done through the use of pressure, so it's not a flush, but you're still getting a full fill of new fluid.

 

[T5RUNNER]

I'll reiterate again, that a drain and fill, even though some dealers recommend it, is a waste of money. There is 16qts of fluid in your transmission and you are essentially just changing 3 or 4 at a time.

That would be like changing 1-2 quarts of engine oil at a time. Sounds pretty ridiculous when you put it like that?

I'll repeat for those reading that this is false. The recommended procedure for most vehicles is drain and fill, it is especially important for those with high mileage and old fluid. Not changing all the fluid at one time is the whole point.

Change intervals for transmissions are much longer because the fluid does not fill with combustion byproducts. It is like changing 1 quart of oil every 1000 miles, not rediculous at all.

 

[t-man]

Wondering if there may be some confusion about this term. I agree that a drain and fill that doesn't replace all the fluid seems like a waste. What my local Toyota dealer does for $199 is a fluid exchange - it all comes out and is replaced entirely by new WS. The difference is that it's not done through the use of pressure, so it's not a flush, but you're still getting a full fill of new fluid.

How do they swap it all out without some sort of tool like my exchange was or a flush machine?

Sent from the drivers seat of my 05 4runner.

 

[Ratubbs]

How is SOME new fluid better than an entire trans flowing clean new fluid?! Also who is doing the "recommending" to only do drain and fills in high mileage transmissions? Not trying to spark a debate just looking for definitive proof and documentation.


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[T5RUNNER]

How is SOME new fluid better than an entire trans flowing clean new fluid?! Also who is doing the "recommending" to only do drain and fills in high mileage transmissions? Not trying to spark a debate just looking for definitive proof and documentation.


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The mechanic already gave you the explaination. He is correct. As for definitive proof, I don't think you can get that from a forum.

 

[chitown40]

I'm interested in know how you routed your tube. I tried that and I couldn't do it without there being some dips in the run to keep the new fluid from actually flowing into the fill port.

Bob,

This most recent change was on my GX470, but it should be pretty close to the same. I ran the tubing down by the exhaust manifold and cat. I tucked it under the heat shielding to keep it pretty straight and level and then went into the fill port. There was a small "low" section that pooled a small amount of fluid, so I just added a little extra fluid each fill to compensate. When I finished adding the last few quarts, I had my helper pull up on the tubing while I held it in the fill port and the fluid drained right into the transmission. I used some duct tape to secure a block of wood the passenger side of the engine compartment and then secured the funnel to the wood. Two of three pieces of tape total. I didn't even need to go under the vehicle during each drain/fill cycle -- the tubing stayed put then entire time. If I can dig up a picture I'll post it up.

 

[chitown40]

I'll repeat for those reading that this is false. The recommended procedure for most vehicles is drain and fill, it is especially important for those with high mileage and old fluid. Not changing all the fluid at one time is the whole point.

Change intervals for transmissions are much longer because the fluid does not fill with combustion byproducts. It is like changing 1 quart of oil every 1000 miles, not rediculous at all.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Why are there machines like these in almost every dealership shop, independent shop, and transmission shop?

http://www.robinair.com/products/transmission-fluid-exchanger

Power flushes that can dislodge build of sediment, etc. -- we can all agree that these are not recommended for higher-mileage vehicles. But low to no pressure exchange of the fluid is absolutely the recommended procedure.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Why are there machines like these in almost every dealership shop, independent shop, and transmission shop?

Transmission Fluid Exchanger | Robinair

Power flushes that can dislodge build of sediment, etc. -- we can all agree that these are not recommended for higher-mileage vehicles. But low to no pressure exchange of the fluid is absolutely the recommended procedure.

The machines would exist regardless of their effectiveness, as long as the salesman can make it sound like the company saves 1 cent over what they do now; they have a possible sale. Having been at a dealership with went through 3~4 Chemical Suppliers and their machines specifically because of such cheapness, it's not about whether or not they work, it's about what the higher ups think is gonna save them money/make more money. If that means putting chemicals and additives in the fluid that aren't recommended by the manufacturer to make their service package's prices seem more valuable, then so be it.

As for the machines themselves, I suppose there isn't any harm in using them; the main issue I have is that too many people and techs fail to do the correct fluid check procedure afterwards. The erroneously assume that because 4qts got sucked up from the bottle, all 4qts went into the transmission and all 4qts of old fluid came out. When in reality it's more like 4.5qts of old/mixed fluid came out, 3qts went in, and the remaining .5 is in the lines you used for the flush. Bottom line, you still need to perform a fluid check afterwards (having used a similar machine at work with the giant piston for T-IV transmissions I can qualify how inaccurate that machine is relative to the dipstick)

Additionally, Toyota is a bit vague along the years; but they mostly show you draining and filling the transmission as the correct procedure for WS ATF. Then again as pointed out in another thread, they want you to use a "Brake Rotor Grinder" to resurface the rotors when doing brake services... never seen a grinder for rotors to be honest with you; but Toyota does requires us to use a On-Care Brake Lathe like ProCut for warranty brake concerns. So take that with a grain of salt I suppose?

But if you drain and fill the transmission a good amount until the fluid is fairly red you should be fine, its more about "refreshing" the fluid and the additive packages in it than it is about being OCD and getting it all out.
[MENTION=136099]Ratubbs[/MENTION]

Most Toyota Transmissions made in the last 10~15yrs or so do not have a paper or fabric filter like GM or other domestics. They use a brass or metal "pick-up screen" to filter the fluid, they are cleanable but require removal of the transmission oil pan to do so. From the few people who have actually bothered to do this on higher mileage transmissions, they seem not to get too clogged up (which I wouldn't expect them to unless the transmission was having serious issues). The majority of the particles are very fine and are either suspended in the fluid or caught by the magnets in the oil pan.

So you can clean them if you want, nothing wrong with that, but you'll have to use the correct FIPG and reseal the pan afterwards and make sure you install the screen correctly.

 

[Gatafly]

My second time around, I ran vinyl tube from the top of the engine compartment into the fill hole. I put a funnel into the vinyl tube and secured it upright in the engine compartment. Made refilling a breeze. No more hand pump.

Or you could just put a smaller funnel on the cooler return line and pour new fluid in as it is pumping the old out. That's the way I did it anyway and it worked great. When new fluid was coming out I just stopped, crawled under and topped off what was needed in the pan and got it up to temp. When at temp I ended up adding only a few ounces to bring it to proper level.

 

[Bluesky 07]

[MENTION=66389]BlackWorksInc[/MENTION], thanks for the candor about how the world works. I'm sure there are some exceptions where the concern is more about customer service and procedural effectiveness, but what you stated is the reality in most cases.

As for verifying the fluid level after, I may do that just to ease my mind. My approach with any repair place is "trust, but verify."

A few admittedly futile words for Toyota: INSTALL A #)@&$ DIPSTICK!!!!

Thanks, I feel better.

 

[eelliiss]

It's such an incredibly easy process; I don't know why anyone wouldn't do it. I had my nine year old turn the car off and on to pump the fluid out as I pumped fresh fluid in. Took a little over 30 minutes with temperature check. I bought a high mileage 4Runner (172k miles), and the exchange made a night and day difference in shifting. Between the trans and rear diff fluid I did over the weekend, gas mileage went up around 2 mpg's.

 

[Atlanta_man]

Or you could just put a smaller funnel on the cooler return line and pour new fluid in as it is pumping the old out. That's the way I did it anyway and it worked great. When new fluid was coming out I just stopped, crawled under and topped off what was needed in the pan and got it up to temp. When at temp I ended up adding only a few ounces to bring it to proper level.

This is good news and I have the tubing, funnel, fittings, etc to try the gravity method of sending new fluid back in the cooler return line. If the gravity method is not enough pressure to send the new fluid on its way then I was going to try a drill pump to do the quart or two at a time deal.

My mission is to avoid fooling with the refill port on the transmission / hooking up the tubing to it even though an initial drain and fill might be best before starting the full flush.
I really hate crawling around under the truck and setting it up level on jack stands.

 

[Ahawl03]

Just Did a drain and fill at 125k. Changed my spark plugs, differential fluid, transfer case, and gear oils at the same time


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[Derek]

Just Did a drain and fill at 125k. Changed my spark plugs, differential fluid, transfer case, and gear oils at the same time


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This might be a dumb question but how do you perform a drain and fill? Is this procedure documented anywhere on this site? This isn't something I've done before but I think it would be a good idea on my '07 I just purchased with 120K miles on it. Thanks.