How many guys are still on original transmission fluid? Come on in!

[Bluesky 07]

thats not accurate. nowhere in my 07 manual says something like that. i agree with jhon lombardo quote above but thats for most cars. toyotas tranny dont need service again toyota engineers built that tranny they know way better than us. as long as mine shift smooth im not touching it.

The problem with your logic is that multiple sources agree that the definition of "lifetime" in this context means the time the manufacturer is responsible for repairs - in other words, the warranty period. Added to that is the simple fact that no fluid can adequately protect moving parts indefinitely regardless of what it's made of, and there is zero evidence that WS fluid is anything special.

It's your truck, do as you please. I also have a 2007 and see it as cheap preventive maintenance that makes good sense given the potential cost of a tranny failure.

 

[t-man]

Fixed my pic so it is embedded ^^^^^

 

[mr_plow]

I'm posting this so anyone googling can sort through the cow manure results –

My T4R friends, we need to set the record straight. No more time wasting.

I had to spend 12 hours researching this because of all the arguing. Come on!

Transmission myths are widespread. They're very logical so even professionals can spread this misinformation. I've heard it described as "John's Transmission Myth" – A middle-class friend of a friend has some transmission stuttering so he gives the car to a buddy to flush the ATF. He drives the car for a week and the issue is still present. One morning while he's late to work and stops at a toll before the bridge. He hits the gas and the car revs like it's in neutral. Boom, failed transmission. His stomach drops."

That's the story. Sometimes the story has variations – John did the flush himself in his driveway. Or John brought his car to Firestone on 8th St.

Whatever the story, it's false. Don't be a sheep and let optimism bias blind you. People on the internet aren't always experts. Professionals aren't always experts. I spent time doing the research so don't waste any more time.

Here's the guide –

Toyota has apparently defined "lifetime" as 100,000mi. The fluid will usually only last to 100,000mi if you walk instead of run. AKA – grocery getter.

If you have towed with your 4Runner, regularly drive up hills (mountain driving), or have larger-than-stock wheels – There's a high probability you need to replace your ATF at 60,000mi. Definitely at 100,000mi. You can drive a car around the world a few times in that mileage... I'm going to bet you the fluid in your precious 5spd trans is black! It doesn't run on magic, you know.

Blah blah "it's not like engine oil because of combustion", well you're wrong. It should be treated like engine oil that only gets changed every 50k miles. Apply the same logic. Can you imagine saying to yourself, "I haven't changed my engine oil in 20,000 miles, but my engine is still running smooth, so I shouldn't bother!"

KEEP READING –

But here's the catch. If you've failed to keep up on your transmission maintence because of "John's Transmission Myth" – Don't freak out, but... You may be too late. The damage is done. You may even have some slipping issues already. If that's the case, it's important to read this: CHANGING THE FLUID WON'T UN-BREAK YOUR TRANSMISSION. You can waste the money and change it out but it's still going go fail! And when it does, you're going to blame the fluid change, further spreading the myth. Other times, the mechanic doesn't fill the sealed transmission correctly and checks the level when too hot/cold which is literally the worst thing you can do to your transmission. Usually the drain and fill or flush is blamed but in reality it was just an ignorant/lazy per-car mechanic that didn't fill it up correctly!

If you have the "rumble strip issue", then change the fluid. If that doesn't solve it, the damage is already done. If your trans is slipping already, don't bother changing the fluid because it's already about to fail.

Is that simple enough? I hope so. I hate to see people waste their money on avoidable repairs, and/or put a lemon in the hands of their 'Runner's next owner. Don't be a jerk, man. Keep up on your transmission maintence because you're a smart good person!

 

[mustangpro]

'05 4Runner SR5 V8, 121,000....... original fluid, no issues
'05 GX470, 157,000...... original fluid, no issues

My thoughts? Doing drain/refill procedures on both this spring.

 

[mr_plow]

'05 4Runner SR5 V8, 121,000....... original fluid, no issues
'05 GX470, 157,000...... original fluid, no issues

My thoughts? Doing drain/refill procedures on both this spring.

Your trans will love you long time.

 

[03v8raleigh]

Ok so after browsing through this, can someone confirm my current plan?

My recently purchased 03 v8 (with the tranny dipstick) has 150,000 miles. Fluid on the dipstick is still fairly red, so I assume it was somewhat taken care of. I just changed engine oil, transfer case, and front/rear diff oil, so I figure I should change tranny fluid too. Here is my plan:

Just ordered this: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004QC1066/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I have a 5gal bucket which I have marked off by the quart. I will
-Open the trans drain, drain into bucket
-Remove trans pan bolts, drop pan, and drain pan fluid into bucket
-Clean pan and pan magnets, remove all gasket material from pan
-Remove filter, and bolt on new filter
-Add new gasket to pan, and bolt pan back onto the transmission. Torque to ___? in/lb
-Refill transmission through the dipstick using long funnel, adding exactly as much tranny fluid as I removed (as measured from bucket). Should be ~4 quarts or so. Check fluid level on dip stick.
I will use this fluid: https://www.amazon.com/Genuine-Toyo...ie=UTF8&qid=1481864072&sr=1-2&keywords=IV+atf

Done.

Is this generally seen as the best procedure that minimizes chances of ****ing something up? I know it only gets ~1/3 of fluid out. But I will probably also drain&fill via drain plug only again in a few thousand miles. I have done this procedure twice before (on my 3rd gen, and on my parents Sienna as a last ditch effort to save the already failed reverse in the transmission) so I am fairly comfortable with it. I know I could get more fluid out by starting the engine and pumping more out through the hoses, but I don't want to mess anything up, and I'm not sure it's worth it.

 

[eelliiss]

Is this generally seen as the best procedure that minimizes chances of ****ing something up? I know it only gets ~1/3 of fluid out. But I will probably also drain&fill via drain plug only again in a few thousand miles. I have done this procedure twice before (on my 3rd gen, and on my parents Sienna as a last ditch effort to save the already failed reverse in the transmission) so I am fairly comfortable with it. I know I could get more fluid out by starting the engine and pumping more out through the hoses, but I don't want to mess anything up, and I'm not sure it's worth it.

What would you be messing up? If you use the chemical spraying method and push fluid back through the return line, it would probably be entering in at similar (possibly slower) rate than what the transmission pump consistently pumps ATF fluid through when the vehicle is on. I think this is where people get nervous. They believe that they will knock some debris loose and damage the transmission.

I think there have also been many accounts out there in which owners have broken bolts trying to remove the pan, or once removed there was little to nothing to clean out of the pan/mesh filter.

IMO, the cooling line method is simpler, quicker, cheaper, and cleaner than dropping the pan and doing multiple drain and fills.

Edit: I bought my 4R at 170k miles with no knowledge of its transmission service history. I didn't drop the pan, just pumped two to three quarts of fluid out at a time into a measured bucket by turning the car on and off. I would then pump in the exact amount of MaxLife in until what was pumping out was fresh fluid. Reconnected the lines, got the vehicle into temp check, and then drained out excess. Took 20 minutes total. There is a night and day difference in the shifting.

 

[ranaesx4]

Still on original WS ATF 2004 - 138k miles. Will get it done along with the timing belt and water pump... still on the original!

the 2004 uses a timing chain, no need to change it....

 

[ranaesx4]

gonna do full trans flush tomorrow 142k miles, never done, runs good, just did diff front, and transfer fluid, both was dark, glad I changed it.

 

[tysauce]

the 2004 uses a timing chain, no need to change it....

All years of the V8 ('03-'09) have a timing belt. All years of the V6 ('03-'09) have a timing chain.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[RonJR]

I'll add my input here. I bought my '06 V8 Sport a year ago with 121,000 miles on it. It now has 140,000 miles. PO ran stock suspension and tires, and did no towing. I did the lift about 5000 miles ago and towed about 2000 miles pulling a 2200 lb. pop-up last summer. Transmission shifts perfectly.

A couple of weeks ago I decided to send an oil sample to Blackstone. The sample I pulled was black as India ink. I've attached the lab report.

As you can see, it's definitely time to get that stuff out of there. Although the fluid itself seems to have good integrity and lubricating capability, the high amount of metals suggests that damage has already been done - I hope the damage is slight enough that I'll still get some long miles out of it.

I'm certainly convinced that the "lifetime" is over for this batch of fluid.

 

[RonJR]

Follow on question: How much fluid is really in that transmission (A350F)? People on this thread give numbers like 12-14 quarts, but the FSM has the following table, which indicates the entire transmission assembly only takes 5.6 quarts. That's a big difference from 12-14. Anyone know the actual answer?

 

[bob3dsf]

Follow on question: How much fluid is really in that transmission (A350F)? People on this thread give numbers like 12-14 quarts, but the FSM has the following table, which indicates the entire transmission assembly only takes 5.6 quarts. That's a big difference from 12-14. Anyone know the actual answer?

Ron,

I wonder if that chart is a breakdown by major sub-assembly... The "entire transmission assembly" could be the gear housing, or whatever it's called. I mean, the torque converter and valve body are part of the tranny. Thats almost 10 right there, and the 1.37 qts in the pan? I can go out to the garage and dump ~4 qts from the pan right now. That 5.6 qts in the "entire assembly" just doesn't make sense as all the fluid. Obviously, I'm not a Toyota engineer, but that's my take on the chart..

 

[flipflopnfly]

Follow on question: How much fluid is really in that transmission (A350F)? People on this thread give numbers like 12-14 quarts, but the FSM has the following table, which indicates the entire transmission assembly only takes 5.6 quarts. That's a big difference from 12-14. Anyone know the actual answer?

A750F is the 4WD version of the sealed 5-speed. With a transmission cooler a full flush and fill is about 19 quarts. Costs maybe $350 at a Toyota dealer. I'm at 108k miles now, I'm pretty sure it didn't tow before I bought it at 100K, the 7-pin had never been used.

I saw on toyota.com inputting the VIN that there had been a flush done. I'm towing 4000lbs now so I'll have the full flush and fill done soon for peace of mind for the next few years of towing. $350 isn't a big deal.

 

[08GreySportV6]

2008 with 110,000 miles

I also tend to want to replace XMSN fluid but after talking with service guy and the XMSN shifting perfectly I am going to wait. Maybe I can figure out a way to check the color and odor of the fluid to determine condition. Those Japanese engineers know more than I do but I surely don't want to replace a transmission when I could have done a fluid change.

 

[CookieRoe]

If you have the "rumble strip issue", then change the fluid. If that doesn't solve it, the damage is already done. If your trans is slipping already, don't bother changing the fluid because it's already about to fail.

Keep up on your transmission maintence because you're a smart good person!

Agree with everything. I respectfully like to add, if one has the rumble issue, to add a tube of this; I have and I've been rumble free.

 

[Synister]

I just did the fluid exchange yesterday using the coolant return line method described earlier. Original fluid was dark of course but still had some good color with the light shining through it, 109k no towing.

I very much doubt you can tell the status of the fluid by simply looking at its color, the only way to know is to have an oil analysis done like the one posted earlier, thanks for that btw. My truck shifted fine and never had an issue before I swapped the fluid but I tend to subscribe to the school of thought that "lifetime fluid" means "lifetime of the manufacturers warranty" which given that toyota offers 100k factory warranty's that was my limit.

I will change again at 200k or so.

 

[cherishzm]

I just did the fluid exchange yesterday using the coolant return line method described earlier. Original fluid was dark of course but still had some good color with the light shining through it, 109k no towing.

I very much doubt you can tell the status of the fluid by simply looking at its color, the only way to know is to have an oil analysis done like the one posted earlier, thanks for that btw. My truck shifted fine and never had an issue before I swapped the fluid but I tend to subscribe to the school of thought that "lifetime fluid" means "lifetime of the manufacturers warranty" which given that toyota offers 100k factory warranty's that was my limit.

I will change again at 200k or so.

Thanks for the input

 

[Bluesky 07]

I'll add my input here. I bought my '06 V8 Sport a year ago with 121,000 miles on it. It now has 140,000 miles. PO ran stock suspension and tires, and did no towing. I did the lift about 5000 miles ago and towed about 2000 miles pulling a 2200 lb. pop-up last summer. Transmission shifts perfectly.

A couple of weeks ago I decided to send an oil sample to Blackstone. The sample I pulled was black as India ink. I've attached the lab report.

As you can see, it's definitely time to get that stuff out of there. Although the fluid itself seems to have good integrity and lubricating capability, the high amount of metals suggests that damage has already been done - I hope the damage is slight enough that I'll still get some long miles out of it.

I'm certainly convinced that the "lifetime" is over for this batch of fluid.

Finally, evidence. Thanks for posting this. I believe more than ever that the safest assumption is that Toyota's definition of "lifetime" = 100K miles.

 

[twa318]

I had the transmission fluid machine flushed @183k miles by the dealership.

There was a slight "clunk" that I noticed when pulling away from a stoplight when cold. Surprisingly the transmission flush seemed to have eliminated the clunk completely. I didn't notice any difference in shifting as it was smooth prior to the flush but since there was no record of it being done by the PO I wanted to have it flushed for peace of mind.