Curt Sauve
New member
Reading this thread, some of the old schooler's posts takes me back to 1975 when I changed my own oil, plugs and points in my 72 Chevelle every 3000 miles. Nowadays I trade the Toyotas in sometimes before the 3rd oil change.
How many people don't use the free oil changes and service?
- Thread starter SavageRunner
- Start date
Only the first 2 oil changes are free? Doesnt the free service plan go beyond 20k?
If they are changing every 10K I would insist on fully synthetic, but I guess theres no way to know.
I suppose I could change the oil myself at 5, 15, 25k with synthetic.
Buying Mobil1 at Walmart is pretty cheap.
Blitzkrieg
New member
I too have used oil analysis a fair amount in the past Kieth and love it.
I only put about 5k miles a year on my vehicle (the joys of working from home) so I am going to abide by the 1 year rule.
I know the synthetics are capable of going 10K miles or more and the old school me (that grew up with dino oil and you better change it at most every 3K miles) has long struggled with the extended change durations.
I know many/most hauling companies and large machinery operators have an hours/mile scale where they test the oil at X-miles/hours and if reports good it stays in until the next checkpoint.
I think if I drove my new 4Runner more, I would have the oil analyzed at about 7K and if it checked out good run it to the 10K miles.
Kind of bizarre in a way because back in the day would run the dino break in oil 500 miles, out it came and then you'd go syn.
I think it has it's positives and negatives but given my background I might see it a bit differently than most dealership techs. I've worked as Team Leader, Shop Foreman, I've had tech under my that I was responsible for, I'e trained apprentices, it's been my role to take over problem/difficult diagnosis cars and address comeback cars from other techs.
The positives are that they specialize in your vehicle. They work on they same things day in and day out, they know what the typical problems are and you tend to get a better more complete inspection when the person doing it knows the common items to make sure they check. IF something happens they are going to make I right. I got a car towed in that another tech did an service on and forgot to put the o-ring on the filter. The customer drove it on the highway and it leaked out until the low oil pressure light came on, he shut it off and towed it in. To appease the customer I pulled a rod cap and a main cap to show him there was no bearing damage and the dealer bought him a $3000 extended power train warranty. It was a stupid mistake, people are human it happens. You always get OEM parts and approved oil plus the maintenance records are all kept in one place. Another advantage is the benefits of being a good/consistent customer, if your out of warranty and something breaks the dealership CAN goodwill the repair at no cost to you, they certainly aren't going to extend that courtesy to someone who does't spend any money there.
The negative stems from my jaded point of view from have the roles in the shop that I've had. In my 11 years with VW/Audi I can count on 1 hand the number of techs who I would trust to work on my own personal vehicle. I'd say 50% of techs are straight up shit, most of the rest are aqueduct, and a good tech who truly cares is very rare because the the industry is set up to screw those people. I personally get paid a pretty good salary plus X amount of money for every hour all of the techs in the shop flag. But 99% of technicians get paid strictly on billable hours and that's about it. Job Y pays X amount of time regardless of how long it takes to do. Les say you have an oil leak, you'll get paid to fix the leaks, but cleaning all the oil off the engine, off the exhaust so it doesn't burn, smoke, and smell, cleaning off the subframe, power washing and degreasing the belly pans... you might as well stay after hours and do it on free time because the tech don't get paid to do that. They would literally make more money by not cleaning up the oil, and leaving the car I mess. Me personally I've always taken pride in my work and do everything I can to make sure it's right. Something like an oil leak where the customer is paying a good chunk of money and they will get the car back looking and feeling exactly the same I personally give the whole engine bay a quick cleaning so IF they happen pop the hood at least they can tell I was there... but I never got paid to do that. When a car is done, most guys just pull them out, I always drive everything to make sure they are fixed and operating the way they should. If it's under warranty I'd get paid 6 minutes for driving it regardless of how many miles it was driven. If it's not under warranty you don't get paid to drive it at all. If i do an oil change I drive it after. If you have a problem that happens at highway speeds... have fun working for free. Lets say you're going to do cam adjuster seals on a V6, the old brittle breather pipe that has years of heat cycles and oil vapor going through it is more than likely going to crumble trying to remove it, if you quote it with the job (if it brakes install a new one, if it doesn't don't and their bill is lower) and your an ******* for selling them things they don't need and driving the cost up, if you don't quote it and it breaks then your ******* who wasn't being careful and we can't charge the customer for it, you know who makes out... the real ******* who breaks the pipe and just tapes it since its under an engine cover so no one will notice. If a car is towed in and it's slick and snowing, you don't get paid for finding a tow strap and a truck to drag the car inside and into your bay. You diagnose the problem... now you're not getting paid while you wait for parts to get price and availability, you're not getting paid while you wait for the adviser to talk to the customer to get repair approval, you're not going to get paid to push it back out and then tow it back in when you get an answer. You're doing a set of tires and you find there's multiple sets of wheel weights on it already, you get paid X amount of time for doing the tires, it's in your wallets best interest to not take the old weights off and keep adding to them. The other day during lunch I listened to a tech who now works at my old VW dealer talk about how he was pissed that he was told he actually has to set transmission fluid to the proper level when doing a trans service instead of just dumping some fluid in and calling it good (on a VW/Audi you need the trans to be cold, you pull the drain plug, remove the funnel from inside the drain so all the fluid comes out, then put the funnel back in, fill the fluid through the drain hole, let it warm up to 35*C and then let it drain down to the top of funnel and the fluid slows to drip.) People like that piss me off but in the world of flat rate that's the profitable way to do your job. I've seen a guy a reuse 1 head bolt (one time use stretch bolts that NEED to be replaced every time they are loosened) because that's the one he couldn't get out without having to take the head apart to remove the camshafts, it's more profitable to put it together in a way that wont have an issue right away than to do it correctly. You make the most money as a tech by half assing as much shit as you possibly can without the customer noticing. Personally I absolutely refuse to do that, I've always refused to do that. That's not who I am and that's not how I work, unfortunately it doesn't pay as well to do a good thorough job and treat a customer and their car as if they were family. But on the flip side hourly pay isn't going to happen because those same dickheads who lie cheat and steal to make a buck now certainly aren't going to put in a good honest day of work if they are going to get paid the same as they would if they payed fruit ninja on their phone for an hour in between smoke breaks. It's a lose lose industry for good honest workers with morals, and that's never going to change because good honest workers with morals are few and far between. Some dealers are better than others with things, but it's not a problem at a store level, it's the whole industry. Even when flat rate did apply to me I've always done things the right way and it's advanced my career rather padding my pocket short term. It's like trying to find a good alignment tech... they get paid the same amount regardless of how much time they spend doing the alignment, good luck trying to find someone who will truly dial in the alignment and resteer for caster to verify the adjustments etc.
Granted that all applies to a lot more than just oil changes but the point is the same. An oil change doesn't pay much, their goal is going to be get it in and out as fast as possible. If they have quick lube then your chances are it's going to an hourly guy who is knew to the industry and not very knowledgeable or experienced.
Sorry for the long rant.
All that said though, and maybe I'm spoiled from always having access to a lift but I wouldn't change my own fluids on the ground at home. Screw that. I wont even work on friends or family side jobs that involve fluids at home. It's more of a hassle than it's worth.
Kennyr44
New member
This pretty much tells it like it is in a dealership shop. I wouldnt have changed any wording if I was giving my experience. Only the part about test driving every car. Fixed and out back was my motto. I had a family of 4 to feed so lines had to be drawn somewhere. If you work on the same model cars every day you get pretty good at it. I hate other people working on my cars but I trust an experienced tech. His chances are about the same as mine of screwing up so its a good bet it will be ok. I needed to get a head gasket done on my daughters Altima so I called lots of dealers till one writer told me he had a great very experienced tech who has done many of these that he would put on it and it would be done right. Even told me on the phone to come and meet him. They got the job and it worked out. Same price but I felt better about who was doing it. All others I called said any of our guys can do it. From my experience I knew that was total bull.
As a side note my Pos ML350 has 13k synthetic oil change intervals and also I let the Toy dealer do my 10k even though I have a lift in my garage. They ran it through their Quick lube bay, I gambled, but I did mark the tires. The oil looked cleaner when done and no leaks. My wifes heading back out on the road so she will get the 15k done at Beaver Toyota in St Augustine Fl. They did the 5k. She wants to get their license frame put on. Thinks the name is funny.
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Great thread. Too bad it just makes me more unsettled 
Id like to take advantage of the free services if they are going to check everything, scan the computer and actually use synthetic for the oil changes.
But to be honest I will most likely change the oil with synthetic at the 5,15,25k intervals anyway.
They used to charge for these service plans. Wondering why they are now included.
Competition? Or to make sure people actually service their cars for leases and other trade ins?
Id like to take advantage of the free services if they are going to check everything, scan the computer and actually use synthetic for the oil changes.
But to be honest I will most likely change the oil with synthetic at the 5,15,25k intervals anyway.
They used to charge for these service plans. Wondering why they are now included.
Competition? Or to make sure people actually service their cars for leases and other trade ins?
Speedy Gomez
Banned
That attitude wouldn't fly with me/my shop. I used to spot check a couple cars a day, if the mileage was the same as when it came in or it was a check engine light and the readiness code didn't get reset the tech didn't get paid for that job.
(For those who aren't aware a check engine light simply means there's a problem and the ECM realizes it's effecting the emissions. When there's faults stored but no check engine light it's not effecting how much it pollutes. When you set the readiness code you're forcing the car to self check every emissions system and verify it's working)
Say what you want about the process, it worked, customers satisfaction and retention skyrocketed and the amount of come backs and repeat repairs dropped and in the ends that's what it's about. Build long term clientele that trusts you and it's going to pay dividends in the long run.
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stir_fry_boy
New member
0w-20 ONLY COMES IN SYNTHETIC. There is no other way it can be manufactured. Look it up if you want.
After what happened with my new truck and one bolt for the TRD Skid got stripped and a blind nut came unwelded, I'm still thinking that no dealer would have came and told me about it. Who knows what they would have done.
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thanks
That's food to know.
Just curious, I had an FJ Cruiser before his and it had the same engine. The recommended oil was 5w-30
How do they change their recommendations?
Fuel economy?
I live in New England so 0w-20 makes sense this winter.
But what about people that live in the south? 100 degree summers?
0w-20 can't be thick enough for that
stir_fry_boy
New member
That engine is designed for 5w-30. Personally I wouldn't go thinner than 0w-30. Maybe a Toyota tech can comment.
BlackWorksInc
New member
You need to remember there are 2 flavors of 1GR-FE. Single & Dual VVTi; both have different requirements.
Single VVTi 1GR-FEs seen in:
All call for 5w-30 oil.
Dual VVTi 1GR-FEs seen in:
Call for 0w-20 oil.
Single VVTi 1GR-FEs seen in:
- '03-'09 4Runners
- '05-'15 Tacomas
- '07-'09 FJ Cruisers
- '05-'09 Tundras
All call for 5w-30 oil.
Dual VVTi 1GR-FEs seen in:
- '10+ 4Runners
- '10-'14 FJ Cruisers
- '10+ Tundras
Call for 0w-20 oil.
ToyoTech
New member
Kennyr. Pretty much every good tech would say what you just did. Only thing different is. I never got any 6 min pay for test drives. Our warranty pay is crap due to audits in the past. The dealership I worked for wouldn't pay anything extra on warranty even tho we can get paid for it. So glad I got out and into a better easier higher paying job with the same flat rate mentality/pay. Did Toyota tech for 9 almost 10 years. Don't regret what I learned but I learned enough to where I don't want to be doing it for another 30 years.
Good info. I knew there was an engine change halfway through the FJ Cruisers' run, but didnt realize they required different oil. Seems like other manufacturers are going with the 0W-20 Subaru's do.
Again, for my winter this year I wouldnt want to run much thicker.
But if I move to FL, I can't see 0W-20 every 10k cutting the mustard.
1engineer
Moderator
Sure it will. Check the Viscosity Index for 0W-20 and you will see.
Not to hijack this and turn it into an oil discussion.
But does anyone here change their oil and use Mobil 1?
There are 2 types of 0W-20 Mobil1.
Fuel Economy and Extended Performance.
Anyone know the difference? Or care?
1engineer
Moderator
Bob Is The Oil Guy | The Internet's Number One Motor Oil Site
Anything you ever want to know about engine oil in in that link.
Thanks. I didnt find that thread yet, but I did see some interesting ones comparing the Toyota 0W20 to Mobil 1 0W20.
The Toyota oul is pretty well regarded.
I looked around to see where I could buy it. A few hits on Ebay but it comes to about $7/qt with shipping.
Its hard to beat the Walmart price for those 5qt jugs of Mobil 1
