How to disable vehicle tracking/data on 2021/2022 models?
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rageandlove
Member
That's fine, because to avoid being tracked, he's going to also have to cancel his cell phone contract so he wont have a phone to make calls with ;-)
(You cell phone collects 10x the data a car ever would collect and knows far more about everywhere you have ever been and what you are doing.)
2021nightshade4x4
New member
False comparison, much easier to leave a cell phone at home than leave a car at home
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agloukhoff
New member
If you are paranoid, you can decline the agreements for data sharing using the Toyota app. Officially this ceases the communication with your car without pulling any fuses, how much faith you put in that depends on the number of layers of tinfoil in your hat.
:iagree:Truth
Captain Spalding
Member
My truck came with this sticker, affixed to the upper center console, near the off-road controls and the SOS button. Rather spiffing of Toyota to include it, I thought.
Having never taken any action to opt in to any of the connected services, I was not sure what would happen when I pressed the SOS button, but when I did so I was connected to a very nice lady who, when asked how the DCM could be disconnected, told me it was not connected as I had not yet opted in. I pointed out to her that there must be some level of connection, as we were speaking. She seemed then to gain a sharper understanding of what I wanted. She told me I would have to download the Toyota App to my phone and create an account so that I could opt out. This idea of creating an account to opt out didn’t seem right, and I said so. She politely gave me a phone number to try. It was 800-331-4331. This is not a number for Toyota Connected Services. It’s the number for Toyota Safety Connect. (Evidently they are different.)
The gentleman I spoke to there was not so cordial. Once he understood what I was after he became very gruff. He explained that he had worked for Toyota for decades, and if he thought Toyota would mis-use my data he wouldn’t be working for them. And he warned about all the features that would be lost if the DCM were deactivated, that the vehicle would lose “all radio communication” and that in order for those functions to be restored I would have to take my truck into the dealer and pay to have the DCM “re-flashed”. All radio communication? What about the traffic and weather data? What about the key fob? He would not be specific. I’m not sure he knew the details. I also expressed my thoughts that while Toyota’s motives might be pure, they could be just a piece of legislation or a court order away from being compelled to share my data, and that the possibility of my data falling into the hands of hackers also exists. Ultimately, as our spirited debate wound down I decided not proceed at that time. I decided to wait and conduct a few tests to see just how much functionality I would lose. .
Before we go further let’s look at the feedback we have with regard to the DCM by way of indicators on the upper right corner of the infotainment screen.
Going from upper right to left: The BlueTooth symbol shows that there is a Bluetooth connection between the infotainment system and my smartphone. Next: the battery level on the phone. Then: vertical bars indicating the current cellular signal strength on my phone. Next: horizontal bars indicating the DCM’s cellular signal strength. And finally the DCM transmit/receive indicator. The rectangle with the letters “DCM” is always present. When the system is sending or receiving, the up/down arrows will both blink on and off. I was lucky to get this photo - it is rare that the arrows blink, and I just happened to catch them one day. Later I learned that you can force them to blink. On the infotainment system press Menu —>Setup—> General—>Software Update and press the “Check for Software Update” button.
So I wanted to test what would happen if I pulled the DCM fuse:
The first thing I noticed is that the DCM cellular signal indicator now read no bars. I had read elsewhere that some folks who had pulled the fuse lost one of the speakers, and the hands-free microphone in the upper console. In the case of my ‘22 ORP, all the speakers worked fine, but the microphone did not work. I know for lots of people this is not an essential feature, and for them perhaps pulling the fuse is the best way to go. But for me the microphone is a must-have. So I replaced the fuse and determined to investigate further. By the way, with the fuse pulled, all the key-fob functions worked perfectly, and the weather data was available, and the traffic showed up on the navigation screen. So I guess those bits of data come in over the HD radio rather than through the DCM.
For a couple of weeks I drove the truck normally, just observing the behavior of the DCM, trying to get an idea of how often it connects. One day I was driving in a deep canyon. There was no cell service there - neither the 5G that the phone uses, nor the 4G that the DCM uses.
When there is no signal the bars are crossed out.
Then I got an email from Toyota reminding me that I had not yet opted in to all the great connected services. It included a number to call if I wanted to disable them.
So I called this number and had the DCM disconnected. Later the same day I got the following email:
The email says my truck won’t be transmitting any data. It’s in writing, so perhaps there’s some legal weight to the claim that they are not transmitting my data without my consent. The number at the end of the email to re-enroll for connected services is the same number at which I spoke to the grumpy gentleman who said if I wanted to get connected services back I’d have to take my truck to the dealer, and that restoring those services couldn’t be done remotely. I find this encouraging. I performed a couple of other tests. I tried the software update check, and the up/down arrows didn’t flash. I also went to the “Software Update Settings” menu item, which presents a button that says “Auto Update Check”, and that button is disabled, stuck in the off position. Finally, I pressed the SOS button, and a recorded voice said “The communications module is not active. To sign up for service please call …” The message, I’m sure, is in the DCM’s firmware, and wasn’t transmitted to the truck from elsewhere.
It was interesting to note that with the services discontinued, the signal bars for the DCM still register a signal, while when the fuse is pulled there are no bars.
I am encouraged by the results of these tests, but two big questions remain. Has my truck truly stopped transmitting data? And if it has, does Toyota really have to have physical possession of my truck to turn data transfer back on? I don’t know.
I plan to open up the dash in a few weeks to install a GMRS radio. While the dash is open I’ll disconnect the antennas to the DCM. That will add an extra level of security.
Cheers!
Having never taken any action to opt in to any of the connected services, I was not sure what would happen when I pressed the SOS button, but when I did so I was connected to a very nice lady who, when asked how the DCM could be disconnected, told me it was not connected as I had not yet opted in. I pointed out to her that there must be some level of connection, as we were speaking. She seemed then to gain a sharper understanding of what I wanted. She told me I would have to download the Toyota App to my phone and create an account so that I could opt out. This idea of creating an account to opt out didn’t seem right, and I said so. She politely gave me a phone number to try. It was 800-331-4331. This is not a number for Toyota Connected Services. It’s the number for Toyota Safety Connect. (Evidently they are different.)
The gentleman I spoke to there was not so cordial. Once he understood what I was after he became very gruff. He explained that he had worked for Toyota for decades, and if he thought Toyota would mis-use my data he wouldn’t be working for them. And he warned about all the features that would be lost if the DCM were deactivated, that the vehicle would lose “all radio communication” and that in order for those functions to be restored I would have to take my truck into the dealer and pay to have the DCM “re-flashed”. All radio communication? What about the traffic and weather data? What about the key fob? He would not be specific. I’m not sure he knew the details. I also expressed my thoughts that while Toyota’s motives might be pure, they could be just a piece of legislation or a court order away from being compelled to share my data, and that the possibility of my data falling into the hands of hackers also exists. Ultimately, as our spirited debate wound down I decided not proceed at that time. I decided to wait and conduct a few tests to see just how much functionality I would lose. .
Before we go further let’s look at the feedback we have with regard to the DCM by way of indicators on the upper right corner of the infotainment screen.
Going from upper right to left: The BlueTooth symbol shows that there is a Bluetooth connection between the infotainment system and my smartphone. Next: the battery level on the phone. Then: vertical bars indicating the current cellular signal strength on my phone. Next: horizontal bars indicating the DCM’s cellular signal strength. And finally the DCM transmit/receive indicator. The rectangle with the letters “DCM” is always present. When the system is sending or receiving, the up/down arrows will both blink on and off. I was lucky to get this photo - it is rare that the arrows blink, and I just happened to catch them one day. Later I learned that you can force them to blink. On the infotainment system press Menu —>Setup—> General—>Software Update and press the “Check for Software Update” button.
So I wanted to test what would happen if I pulled the DCM fuse:
The first thing I noticed is that the DCM cellular signal indicator now read no bars. I had read elsewhere that some folks who had pulled the fuse lost one of the speakers, and the hands-free microphone in the upper console. In the case of my ‘22 ORP, all the speakers worked fine, but the microphone did not work. I know for lots of people this is not an essential feature, and for them perhaps pulling the fuse is the best way to go. But for me the microphone is a must-have. So I replaced the fuse and determined to investigate further. By the way, with the fuse pulled, all the key-fob functions worked perfectly, and the weather data was available, and the traffic showed up on the navigation screen. So I guess those bits of data come in over the HD radio rather than through the DCM.
For a couple of weeks I drove the truck normally, just observing the behavior of the DCM, trying to get an idea of how often it connects. One day I was driving in a deep canyon. There was no cell service there - neither the 5G that the phone uses, nor the 4G that the DCM uses.
When there is no signal the bars are crossed out.
Then I got an email from Toyota reminding me that I had not yet opted in to all the great connected services. It included a number to call if I wanted to disable them.
So I called this number and had the DCM disconnected. Later the same day I got the following email:
The email says my truck won’t be transmitting any data. It’s in writing, so perhaps there’s some legal weight to the claim that they are not transmitting my data without my consent. The number at the end of the email to re-enroll for connected services is the same number at which I spoke to the grumpy gentleman who said if I wanted to get connected services back I’d have to take my truck to the dealer, and that restoring those services couldn’t be done remotely. I find this encouraging. I performed a couple of other tests. I tried the software update check, and the up/down arrows didn’t flash. I also went to the “Software Update Settings” menu item, which presents a button that says “Auto Update Check”, and that button is disabled, stuck in the off position. Finally, I pressed the SOS button, and a recorded voice said “The communications module is not active. To sign up for service please call …” The message, I’m sure, is in the DCM’s firmware, and wasn’t transmitted to the truck from elsewhere.
It was interesting to note that with the services discontinued, the signal bars for the DCM still register a signal, while when the fuse is pulled there are no bars.
I am encouraged by the results of these tests, but two big questions remain. Has my truck truly stopped transmitting data? And if it has, does Toyota really have to have physical possession of my truck to turn data transfer back on? I don’t know.
I plan to open up the dash in a few weeks to install a GMRS radio. While the dash is open I’ll disconnect the antennas to the DCM. That will add an extra level of security.
Cheers!
Attachments
Interesting info, thanks for sharing.
Will be curious how much (if any) of this will be effected when 3G towers go away. I was told that my SOS button would stop working later on this year for that reason.
Edit. Looks like it doesn't impact newer models?
3G Network Retirement
Will be curious how much (if any) of this will be effected when 3G towers go away. I was told that my SOS button would stop working later on this year for that reason.
Edit. Looks like it doesn't impact newer models?
3G Network Retirement
Captain Spalding
Member
The telematics of my wife’s 2019 VW operated on 3G and have already been orphaned. Newer 4Runners use 4G, which
I reckon will be around for years to come.
Oh dang, I hadn't realized that. Yeah, 4G will be around for quite a while. Thanks for the info
girlplusdog
New member
Well Captain, how did the radio install go? I was worried about disconnecting the GPS and satellite radio capabilities in my '23 4runner because I didn't want to inadvertently "break" other things. Nice to know I can just pull a fuse. But another little snag in going stealth mode is the TPMS system. I read an article somewhere (WSJ I think) about a company that produced a device that captured the TPMS info to count vehicles on roads...then they stopped making the product because of the potential for tracking individuals (real easy to assign an anonymous ID to a dataset then simply observe it for a week and make it rather UN-anonymous).
Captain Spalding
Member
Interesting about the TPMS receivers. I haven’t installed the GMRS radio yet. I’m not sure how long I’ll have the 4Runner. I’ve been making do with a handheld.
Captain Spalding
Member
Woodpuppy
New member
I purchased a new 2023 4Runner SR5 XP Series 3/11. Very stoked about it and all the good news I’m hearing about the engine & drivetrain reliability. I’m one who is put off by all the electronic gadgetry in new cars so I very much appreciate the lack of it in the 4R.
My DCM was not activated by the dealership thankfully, and never displayed the download/upload arrows. The DCM signal strength icon has always had the slash through it. Nevertheless, I wanted to be sure. Being an un-fancy SR5 trim, I don’t have navigation or remote start. The only potential conflict I’d read about (and now I can’t recall if this was for 4Rs, Siennas, Tacomas, or RAV4s) was that pulling the fuse might cut the signal to the starboard speaker.
I pressed the SOS button and got the recorded “your deal is not activated” message from the passenger door speaker. I shut the engine off, pulled the fuse, and restarted the engine. The speakers all work, and the DCM icons on the radio look just like they did before with no activity. The single left-most DCM is still lit.
I’m a happy camper. Thanks for the detail in this post!
My DCM was not activated by the dealership thankfully, and never displayed the download/upload arrows. The DCM signal strength icon has always had the slash through it. Nevertheless, I wanted to be sure. Being an un-fancy SR5 trim, I don’t have navigation or remote start. The only potential conflict I’d read about (and now I can’t recall if this was for 4Rs, Siennas, Tacomas, or RAV4s) was that pulling the fuse might cut the signal to the starboard speaker.
I pressed the SOS button and got the recorded “your deal is not activated” message from the passenger door speaker. I shut the engine off, pulled the fuse, and restarted the engine. The speakers all work, and the DCM icons on the radio look just like they did before with no activity. The single left-most DCM is still lit.
I’m a happy camper. Thanks for the detail in this post!
The only real thing that gets impacted when you pull that fuse is the microphone for making hands free calls is turned off. Nothing else is functionally disabled, at least that's how my 2020 is.
Woodpuppy
New member
Then I’ve no worries. After a botched phone call where I couldn’t hear my wife, I deleted my phone from the car and turned off Bluetooth. All I want is a danged radio! I’d trade all the safety and bloatware tech for a CD player! I use a Garmin for nav, it sits directly in front of me so I don’t have to purposely look away from the road to see the nav screen. Both Toyota’s and Apple’s map services leave much to be desired.
Danielsnlv
New member
You are correct, however...
You are correct however, under the 4th amendment vehicle clause, police can search your vehicle without a warrant. Only need probable cause. Does that mean they can pull your computer history seeing how fast you were going, Were you on your phone, Even pull video camera footage, yes it sure does. Meaning that data your car has stored can incriminate you.
Can the police go through your cell phone without a warrant? Nope. Especiallyif locked. Many do or will try to trick you into letting them but that's theirs and your bad
You are correct however, under the 4th amendment vehicle clause, police can search your vehicle without a warrant. Only need probable cause. Does that mean they can pull your computer history seeing how fast you were going, Were you on your phone, Even pull video camera footage, yes it sure does. Meaning that data your car has stored can incriminate you.
Can the police go through your cell phone without a warrant? Nope. Especiallyif locked. Many do or will try to trick you into letting them but that's theirs and your bad
Danielsnlv
New member
You are correct, however...
You are correct however, under the 4th amendment vehicle clause, police can search your vehicle without a warrant. Only need probable cause. Does that mean they can pull your computer history seeing how fast you were going, Were you on your phone, Even pull video camera footage, yes it sure does. Meaning that data your car has stored can and will incriminate you. Utah has enacted a law against police gathering location data without warrant but that's about it for now. Everything else is free game. Do I believe this is a 5th amendment issue as well as a 4th. Yep. But we'll see. It'll probably take a politician phone records getting seized from their car or going to prison because GPS location said they were going way too fast to change this.
Now, Can the police go through your cell phone without a warrant? Nope. Especiallyif locked. Many do or will try to trick you into letting them but that's theirs and your bad. Should cars data be protected like phones. Yes. But current. Nope, not at all.
You are correct however, under the 4th amendment vehicle clause, police can search your vehicle without a warrant. Only need probable cause. Does that mean they can pull your computer history seeing how fast you were going, Were you on your phone, Even pull video camera footage, yes it sure does. Meaning that data your car has stored can and will incriminate you. Utah has enacted a law against police gathering location data without warrant but that's about it for now. Everything else is free game. Do I believe this is a 5th amendment issue as well as a 4th. Yep. But we'll see. It'll probably take a politician phone records getting seized from their car or going to prison because GPS location said they were going way too fast to change this.
Now, Can the police go through your cell phone without a warrant? Nope. Especiallyif locked. Many do or will try to trick you into letting them but that's theirs and your bad. Should cars data be protected like phones. Yes. But current. Nope, not at all.
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