with a guy named GM freak8 he thinks if it isen't GM it is crap, well I debated features options on the 4Runner versus the taho and after it was all said and done he could only say "watch out for oil sludge that Toyota dosen't tell you about":twak: What a closeed minede idiot, we know Toyota's RULE!
I got into a debate on XM Fan.com
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Hitman
New member
I think GM has come a long way, especially with their SUV line, but anyone with an ounce of common sense knows that GM can't touch Toyota in terms of quality/reliability.
I suspect this GM fan knows this deep down and is just defending his brand.
I only wish that my country made the best vehicles in the world, because I would certainly be buying/driving them.:arrow:
I suspect this GM fan knows this deep down and is just defending his brand.
I only wish that my country made the best vehicles in the world, because I would certainly be buying/driving them.:arrow:
TranceKrayz
New member
yeah GM has come a long way and honestly....I like the way some of their SUVs look more than the 4runner. For example, the Yukon Denali. I just can't justify buying them because of their quality. I guess the guy is just being hardheaded. He'll soon see the light when his Tahoe reaches 100K miles.
Hitman
New member
TranceKrayz said:
100K miles?? That's being generous, isn't it? From my experience, GM vehicles have a lot of problems even well short of 100K miles.
BTW, I actually like the Chevy Trailblazer. My cousin owns one and so does a good friend of mine. They have good power, ride comfortably, and even look protty nice, especially in black.
But I'd still never buy one over a 4Runner or Pathfinder, simply because of past experiences with GM vehicles.
Mark86
Super Moderator
GM did come a long way with their SUV's. The only thing is, was anybody ever in a Trailblazer? The interior is made of all plastic and rattles like crazy. I was never in any other GM SUV's so I can't make any opinion. I am very happy with my Toyota and wouldn't think of a GM becase of all of the horror stories I have heard.
Hitman
New member
Mark86 said:
Yes, the interior is very plasticky.... but as I said, I have two Trailblazers that I'm in regularly. Neither of them rattle and actually, both have been 100% trouble-free so far.
They also have some nice touches inside, such as the built-in digital recorder. It works really well for recording directions/phone numbers or random thoughts or information.
boston_kevin
New member
Wife's car is a Yukon
She got the first year of the redesigned Yukon (2000), and with about 96k miles on it, still runs great. The 327 (5.3L engine) is smooth and powerful and pretty good on gas (16-18 mpg avg). So far, the only issue we have had is the "autoride" system, but the problem was fixed once the shock was removed and drained of the water (deep puddle). System works great again!!
Quality wise, and dealership experience, Toyota far outrates the Yukon. Towing, ride comfort, and overall interior materials are better in the Yukon than the 4Runner though... This soft plastic in the 4Runner scratches when you breath on it... All in all, I prefer my 4Runner to the Yukon (except when towing the boat)
She got the first year of the redesigned Yukon (2000), and with about 96k miles on it, still runs great. The 327 (5.3L engine) is smooth and powerful and pretty good on gas (16-18 mpg avg). So far, the only issue we have had is the "autoride" system, but the problem was fixed once the shock was removed and drained of the water (deep puddle). System works great again!!
Quality wise, and dealership experience, Toyota far outrates the Yukon. Towing, ride comfort, and overall interior materials are better in the Yukon than the 4Runner though... This soft plastic in the 4Runner scratches when you breath on it... All in all, I prefer my 4Runner to the Yukon (except when towing the boat)
As far as I know the sludge problem only applied to the 2.2 L 4-cyl engine in the Camry, and had more to do with consciencous maintenance than an engine defect. Regular oil change intervals minimized the problem.
I had a Camry that was involved in the recall for sludge, had it checked by the dealership, and didn't have any problem. I always used synthetic oil in my car. I had a friend with the same car that did have the problem, and Toyota basically paid to rebuild his engine at 100,000 miles. I'd like to see GM do that. Another friend has the car now, and it's still running strong at 140,000 miles.
Ask the GM fan about piston slap, or the Trailblazer/Envoy frames that were failing due to substandard welds, tranny and brake problems in the older S-10 Blazers, etc. My brother has an Envoy that has been recalled twice now for problems that could cause engine fires.
GM has improved, but they still can't touch Toyota. And no offense to those that like GM vehicles, but man they really crank out some ugly-ass vehicles. What about that ridiculously long school bus looking Trailblazer XL. There are a few exceptions, (corvette, H2, etc) but man they need some fresh blood in the design department. That new GTO looks like a Neon!
--Mike
I had a Camry that was involved in the recall for sludge, had it checked by the dealership, and didn't have any problem. I always used synthetic oil in my car. I had a friend with the same car that did have the problem, and Toyota basically paid to rebuild his engine at 100,000 miles. I'd like to see GM do that. Another friend has the car now, and it's still running strong at 140,000 miles.
Ask the GM fan about piston slap, or the Trailblazer/Envoy frames that were failing due to substandard welds, tranny and brake problems in the older S-10 Blazers, etc. My brother has an Envoy that has been recalled twice now for problems that could cause engine fires.
GM has improved, but they still can't touch Toyota. And no offense to those that like GM vehicles, but man they really crank out some ugly-ass vehicles. What about that ridiculously long school bus looking Trailblazer XL. There are a few exceptions, (corvette, H2, etc) but man they need some fresh blood in the design department. That new GTO looks like a Neon!
--Mike
kdx2000
New member
I used to work with a guy that bought a brand new blazer and that thought it was the greatest thing since sliced bread. So, I would mess with him and one day I brought in some old used motor oil and squirted it under his truck. Well needless to say he shut his yap about how good his blazer was. But in the end he did have to put out about $400 to fix a hose that was leaking oil. This guy now makes over $60K a year and now he owns a tahoe or a yukon, so go figure!
99' limited
91' (R.I.P)
99' limited
91' (R.I.P)
boston_kevin
New member
which recall is that??
GMC 327 (5.3L engine) has solid lifters, not hydraulics. The lifter chatter is normal for any engine from any manufacturer running solid lifters, especially when the engine is cold. GM is the only company I know that is running solid lifters though. Not sure why, but this is the way the original 327's were configured with solid lifters, and these things last forever!
GMC 327 (5.3L engine) has solid lifters, not hydraulics. The lifter chatter is normal for any engine from any manufacturer running solid lifters, especially when the engine is cold. GM is the only company I know that is running solid lifters though. Not sure why, but this is the way the original 327's were configured with solid lifters, and these things last forever!
My cousin has a Yukon Denali with 160k, sweet truck, dollar for dollar the truck has had a ton of work, and has been repainted, compare it to a 4Runner and the 4Runner would not even need anything it has had done, infact of the 4Runners I know with 160k on them, they had general maintenance and other minor higher mileage wear and tear items.
Yukon, engine has been fine, trans, rear axle and tons of other things have been rebuilt or replaced.
Still I don't think the quality is their
:
Yukon, engine has been fine, trans, rear axle and tons of other things have been rebuilt or replaced.
Still I don't think the quality is their
:Tahoe has 271,000 miles.
My 1996 Tahoe was Motor Trend's Truck of the Year in 1996. 2 door, Z71, 4x4, 5.7 liter engien that made the same horses and torque as my V8 4Runner.
4Runner has 9,600 miles on it since I bought it in Oct. 04. So far, one wheel lug sheared off when I took it in to Les Schwab to pull a screw out of the tire and patch it--they were hand torquiing so it really was not their fault. My dealer replaced the lug--and removed the borken lug, just like that. No other problems so far.
My then new 96 Tahoe had to go back in the dealer several times in the first 2,000 miles:
Leaking fluids that took 3 returns to find--leaky master brake cylinder---I had to drive a Neon loaner for a couple of days.
Then the power door lock went out.
Then the rear diff leaked.
Then the a/c would not work right---air flow would stop after a few minutes but the fan would keep working--something was clogging or icing up.
Then right as the warranty went out, the thermostat went out.
Then the axle u-joint went out. $300 or so.
Then it drove just fine until about 140,000 when coolant leaked into the engine from a worn out and degraded intake manifold gasket. $5,000 to replace the engine.
That went alright to the current mileage of 271,000.
BUT----had to replace the intake manifold gasket again last year along with leaky oil cooler lines. $1,400 for that.
At least 3 alternators over the life of the car (Mr. Goodwrench warranty paid for the last one--no charge).
Cracked coolant radiator tank was replaced Nov of 2003.
Fan belt replaced about 3 times.
Power window motor replaced last October- plus another fan belt-
Another battery last December....
All in all, the Tahoe is still runs, but I don't have confidence that it will run well enough for any long trips or vacations anymore. I commute with the 4Runner because adding more miles on the Tahoe will just run it right into the ground. It is the beater for short drives and for Wife-zilla to use in inclement weather.
Tahoe has lasted all these miles from good maintenance and oil changes eveyr 5,000 miles. All other fluids changed every year.
GM quality has come a long way since the 1980s, yet it still has a long ways to go before it reaches the Gold Standard for the World in quality---Toyota.
I bet I would not spend half as much replacing parts on the Toyota when the 4Runner hits 271,000 miles.
My 1996 Tahoe was Motor Trend's Truck of the Year in 1996. 2 door, Z71, 4x4, 5.7 liter engien that made the same horses and torque as my V8 4Runner.
4Runner has 9,600 miles on it since I bought it in Oct. 04. So far, one wheel lug sheared off when I took it in to Les Schwab to pull a screw out of the tire and patch it--they were hand torquiing so it really was not their fault. My dealer replaced the lug--and removed the borken lug, just like that. No other problems so far.
My then new 96 Tahoe had to go back in the dealer several times in the first 2,000 miles:
Leaking fluids that took 3 returns to find--leaky master brake cylinder---I had to drive a Neon loaner for a couple of days.
Then the power door lock went out.
Then the rear diff leaked.
Then the a/c would not work right---air flow would stop after a few minutes but the fan would keep working--something was clogging or icing up.
Then right as the warranty went out, the thermostat went out.
Then the axle u-joint went out. $300 or so.
Then it drove just fine until about 140,000 when coolant leaked into the engine from a worn out and degraded intake manifold gasket. $5,000 to replace the engine.
That went alright to the current mileage of 271,000.
BUT----had to replace the intake manifold gasket again last year along with leaky oil cooler lines. $1,400 for that.
At least 3 alternators over the life of the car (Mr. Goodwrench warranty paid for the last one--no charge).
Cracked coolant radiator tank was replaced Nov of 2003.
Fan belt replaced about 3 times.
Power window motor replaced last October- plus another fan belt-
Another battery last December....
All in all, the Tahoe is still runs, but I don't have confidence that it will run well enough for any long trips or vacations anymore. I commute with the 4Runner because adding more miles on the Tahoe will just run it right into the ground. It is the beater for short drives and for Wife-zilla to use in inclement weather.
Tahoe has lasted all these miles from good maintenance and oil changes eveyr 5,000 miles. All other fluids changed every year.
GM quality has come a long way since the 1980s, yet it still has a long ways to go before it reaches the Gold Standard for the World in quality---Toyota.
I bet I would not spend half as much replacing parts on the Toyota when the 4Runner hits 271,000 miles.
Northof49
New member
The "sludge problem" mentioned is a really far stretch. As someone noted before, most of the problem was caused by improper maintenence.
At the dealer I worked at, we had a vehicle needing a new engine after only 50,000kms due to sludge......guess what? The oil had NEVER been changed since new
At the dealer I worked at, we had a vehicle needing a new engine after only 50,000kms due to sludge......guess what? The oil had NEVER been changed since new
