I ordered a 2004

[RL Lemke]

Even though it may take 3 to 6 months to get the vehicle, I went ahead and ordered a 2004 4Runner. That way I am getting what I want and nothing more.

What I have noticed, in comparing the dealer print-out for the 2003 and 2004, is that prices have changed a bit between the years. Not unexpected. The biggest difference was in some of the option prices. Side airbags went from $430 in 2003 to $583 in 2004.

Anyway, the distributer zone I am in likes to add the B4 Package, 1% Finance Reserve, PIO Holdback, 2% Holdback, MAF, and TDA. These items are not part of my order.

My 4Runner is a real simple one:

2004 Model 8686 - V8 4X4

With factory installed options of:
CM - Cargo Deck+
DJ - Single CD JBL
FE - 50 States Emissions
GY - Side Airbags
NA - 115 v outlet
RF - Rear Spoiler
SP - Sport Package
SR - Moor Roof

Port installed options of:
M5 - Floormats
UC - 7 to 4 pin connector

Price: $32,578.45 + TTL

If there are incentives or rebates when it arrives, I get them. If the price goes up before delivery, I am protected. So the dealer was kind enough to place this ceiling on the price, yet allow it to fall if a better deal is offered by Toyota. More than fair.

I am a happy camper.

 

[jgs9455]

Sounds awesome!!
Question - did the dealer tell you that it was impossible to order any option combinations? If so, which ones?

 

[jharris2]

Congratulations!!

It's great that you bought when you WANTED to, not when you HAD to. Makes all the difference in the world!

You didn't mention the color.....

 

[RL Lemke]

Question - did the dealer tell you that it was impossible to order any option combinations? If so, which ones?

He said that I could have anything I want. That way I was able to avoid the Southern States "manditory" options.

I ordered white because it does not show dust and small dents. The dark blue is very appealing, but shows everything. My job has me off-road daily.

 

[RL Lemke]

The dealer printed a sheet with every available option, price and code. The entire menu!! Every package. I merely picked from the menu. For some reason, special orders bypass the normal distribution requirements. While I am sure the Southern States distributer still earns a profit, I do not have to get a 4Runner configured the way they have been ordering them.

BTW: I did not order the DRLs. If I recall right, the DRLs are an optional setting with the Toyota hand held connection under the dash. I told the dealer that I expected one free optional programming session when it arrived. I plan on:

1 - Turning the remote lock sound off.
2 - Headlights off when the ignition is off and drivers door closes.
3 - DRLs on.

And anything else I can think of before it arrives.

Any suggestions?

 

[jgs9455]

What are the southern states mandatory options??

 

[RL Lemke]

Anyway, the distributer zone I am in likes to add the B4 Package, 1% Finance Reserve, PIO Holdback, 2% Holdback, MAF, and TDA. These items are not part of my order.

These are the items I saw on the dealer sheets for the 4Runners on the lot.

 

[jharris2]

Not to speak for RL, but I believe Gulf States always orders certain things on their vehicles, and strongly pushes a few things like their lusterizing package, VIN etching with insurance, etc. Basically, it's all port "install" stuff, and included on all vehicles that are not a special order. They are all low cost, high profit items for teh distributor and dealer.

For example, lusterizing is just car wax, and not nearly as good as Zaino's (heck, it's not as good as Meguiar's); VIN etching can be done for about $25 if you order the kit yourself (no special skills required -- it's as hard as putting white out on a piece of paper).

If memory serves, Gulf States is the distributor for Texas, Arkansas, Oklahoma, Louisiana, Mississippi, and Alabama; Florida has a different distributor. All distributors have exclusive territories.

By the way, these different distributors actually have a direct bearing on the final configuration of a vehicle. When I was looking for the 4Runenr, I learned that what I could get in Arkansas and in Memphis (3 hours away, but different distributor) were substantially different on the non-factory options. That's why the Toyoa web site wants your ZIP code before it lets you configure a vehicle.

 

[jgs9455]

Anyway, the distributer zone I am in likes to add the B4 Package, 1% Finance Reserve, PIO Holdback, 2% Holdback, MAF, and TDA. These items are not part of my order.

Maybe I'm dumb but I don't know what the B4 Package, 1% Finance Reserve, PIO Holdback, 2% Holdback, MAF, or TDA are?

I've heard when negotiating with Toyota Dealers you should always get them to throw out all these "pure profit markups" in the begining and negotiate down to invoice from there. Luckily I'm buying through a Toyota employee and they automatically thow out all these dealer markups and include the bs waxing, underside sealant, and window etching for free. I wouldn't pay for that crap anyways!

Reminds me of when I used to clean carpets that people would pay more for "scotch guarding" and we knew the stuff didn't really work and would just help their carpet or upholstry get dirty quicker cause it makes it "sticky".

 

[RL Lemke]

If memory serves, Gulf States is the distributor for Texas, Arkansas, Oklahoma, Louisiana, Mississippi, and Alabama; Florida has a different distributor. All distributors have exclusive territories.

Toyota's story, as it relates to the US, is an interesting one. Few recall that Toyota, for their trucks in Japan, used to afix a copied Ford badge. This was because Ford built a quality product and Toyota had such a poor reputation for quality. Where Toyota figured out how to build trucks did not hapen until a certain war where they built trucks under contract for their guvernment.

The notion of "legendary Toyota quality" is a relatively recent thing. Some in the auto industry credit Honda for the present reputation for quality the Japanese auto makers enjoy. Honda, a manufacturer that the Japanese government admonished to not build cars, and to NOT compete with the "approved" Japanese auto manufacturers selling in the US.

Fast forward to the 1960's and the developing Japanese auto market in the US. There was supposed to have been a dealer / distributer network that handled the imported vehicles. Maybe someone that better understands who these distributers are and how their relationship with Toyota developed can comment here.

We all saw on TV that the favorite vehicle for the Taliban was the Toyota truck. Well, much less covered was the love affair the Alcaida (sp) had with the Corolla. In an hour long interview with the BBC, an Alcadia member raved for 45 minutes about how they were able to cross Afghanistan in Corollas. He also said that American's did not target Corollas, makeing transportation much easier. He reved about the abilities of the Corolla to deal with terrible roads and solid reliability.

What the dealer I purchased the 4Runner from said is that now the distirbuters that have exclusive rights to the sale of Toyota products have grown to where it is too expensive for Toyota to buy them out. I am not certain that all of the US is covered by these exclusive distributer agreements though.

Maybe some of you will recall that some American auto manufacturers also had distributers with exclusive rights too.

 

[RL Lemke]

Re: Re: I ordered a 2004

Maybe I'm dumb but I don't know what the B4 Package, 1% Finance Reserve, PIO Holdback, 2% Holdback, MAF, or TDA are?

B4 is the Extra Mile Option Package which includes:
Carpet mat set, rear trunk mat, first aid kit, fabric guard, door edge guards, 7 to 4 pin converter, wheel locks, roadside hazard tire warranty (a reimbursement plan), roadside assistance, tire extended life warranty, pin stripe, cargo net.

C4 is the Extra Mile Package that includes:
Pin stripe, carpet mat set, trunk mat, night vision mirror, first aid kit, fabric guard, door edge guards, security system upgrade, 7 to 4 converter, roadside assistance, tire warranty.

One one invoice the costs to a buyer for the other items are:
T.D.A. - $345
M.A.F. - $508
2% Holdback - $735
PIO Holdback - $70
Finance Reserve - $367
VIP Sales Follow-up - $5.95
Vehicle fueling - $7.80
Dealer Fees - $300

All of these costs were part of the dealer invoice - the price the 4Runner was offered to me for. Ordering a 4Runner, without all of these fees, just seemed easier to me.

Maybe I am getting a "good deal", maybe not. All I am seeking, when buying a car, is a fair deal. One that leaves the dealer and myself happy with the transaction. Maybe that is why, for my family, I only buy two cars a decade. Anyone interested in a good used car with 500,000 miles on it?

 

[peter78]

Re: Re: Re: I ordered a 2004

Maybe that is why, for my family, I only buy two cars a decade.

Finally, someone that thinks like me. I like to buy new, one for me and one for my wife. Also when I buy a new car, I might keep my third car. Right now I have my old 88 Acura, my wife's 92 Honda Accord and a 2001 Toyota 4Runner which I thought was for me.

The trouble with buying like that is, you are not very good at buying cars, the pressure is on you to buy a good reliable car, hope your car will meet your needs for the next decade.

The last car I sold was back in 98, a 1980 Honda Civic Wagon. A 18 year old car. Great plan, but I think my soon to be driving Son will throw a monkey wrench to my plan. He has already told me he wants the 4Runner. :boxing:

 

[gaslight]

forgive me if I'm wrong but I believe the Holdback is what is paid to the dealer by the factory or maybe in this case the distributor when the sale goes through. Not something you pay to the dealer. I believe I read that recently at a car buying info site.

 

[peter78]

Holdback

gaslight is correct. For years holdbacks were with American Compaines. Now most all compaines do it. That money (2% in Toyota's case) is givien back to the dealer when they sell the car. Dealers say it is used for financing the car when it is sitting on the lot and not sold, other people, like me, say it is another way to make money.

 

[RL Lemke]

Re: Holdback

gaslight is correct. For years holdbacks were with American Compaines. Now most all compaines do it. That money (2% in Toyota's case) is givien back to the dealer when they sell the car.

The dealer that gave me the price sheet had two columns, one for their "cost" and another for the MSRP. Their "deal" was to offer the 4Runner to me at their cost. All of the items I quoted were in their "cost" column and, as such, I was expected to pay. Anyway each was added to arrive at the "DLR" price, as opposed to the "MSR" price.

Holdback is now common. An item that is usually hidden from the buying public. However, due to the slow market, dealers are offering potential buyers additional information to help sell the "good deal" they are offering.

Again, the order sheet I was given had none of the cost items that were shown to me by the other dealers.

I am coming to realize that individual dealers can taylor the print-out sheets to suit their own needs. Some include more cost items, others cut it to the quick.

 

[gaslight]

oh, they most definitely tailor their print outs to what ever they want. I'm sure some of the company sales reps that go around to the dealers set these up so that many are close in price within their sales area. Trust me they are still making money on that vehicle. They don't sell it at cost and not make anything. They will get their blood money one way or another. They might have screwed you on your trade to ofset selling the new 4runner at a low price(low profit).

check out some of the car buying sites to read up on this stuff. Knowledge is power. Plus use these sites to check out the going rates on these vehicles.
I've been shopping for a 4runner for a couple of months now. I didn't get what I wanted in an 03 so now working on an 04. The dealer told me that there weren't any out there yet. I had to set him straight on a couple of points that being one of them. They are now looking for the vehicle I want not the one they just want to sell me. We didn't talk price the other day but they put it in their alotment to find me the one I want. They even showed me that only 49 v6 sports were coming to our area of New England and of that only 17% were supposed to be in the color I want. When they find one then we can talk price because I know what I should be paying based on what I have read and with dealing with them and others while searching for an 03. They won't give me what my car is worth so I will sell it in the mean time and wind up with an extra 1500-2000 to use toward the 04. I think my 1998 camry with 50k is worth more than $6600. I see them selling for much more. Remember knowledge is power and patience pay off. Few people are patient(just look at how people drive).

 

[peter78]

Maybe I am getting a "good deal", maybe not. All I am seeking, when buying a car, is a fair deal. One that leaves the dealer and myself happy with the transaction.

gaslight, you are right they are going to make their money. I have also heard that they make more money on financing they on the car. But, I think RL Lemke got a good deal, and he is happy with it. Also, look at it this way, he got the 4Runner for the next decade of hopefully good use.

 

[gaslight]

thats a real important point that both parties are happy with the deal. More than a few on this board have said afterwards that they might have gotten it a little cheaper if they worked on it a little harder. You have to be happy with the transaction before you sign on the dotted line.

 

[tundra_stl]

If memory serves, Gulf States is the distributor for Texas, Arkansas, Oklahoma, Louisiana, Mississippi, and Alabama; Florida has a different distributor. All distributors have exclusive territories.

.

Just for the record I work for the parent company of South East Toyota (SET) . They distribute to 5 south-east states ..Florida, Georgia,Alabama and North and South Carolina. I did get all of the port gizmos since I when to Alabama to get my 4Runner.

http://www.jmfamily.com/SET/default.htm

 

[RL Lemke]

The Real Deal

I want to apologize to everybody on this list. Upon close review of the dealer cost sheets, from which my price was determined, I found some added costs. Costs I had assumed that I was avoiding by ordering a 4Runner from the factory. It seems that I am indeed paying $440 for M.A.F., $345 for T.D.A., $12 for PIO-HB (I assume this is port installed option hold-back), $319 for Finance Reserve, & $638 for Base-Veh-HB (I assume this is another hold-back).

So, on top of the $500 I am paying in this