Icon, Fox, or King?

[bonegatron]

Icons are Digressive. Fox/Kings are typically linear shocks or slightly progressive in their valving.

So it's actually opposite. Icons are softer on road, but usually don't fair well at speed.

The way I think about it is if I'm taking rapid hits (like whoops or a pothole), then the progressives would roll through those smoother at the cost of feeling 'mushy' in corners or getting nose dive braking. No doubt the icons hold form for better handling though.

 

[Trailboundt4r]

Great thread!

 

[Aznisegi]

From what I've gathered. The UCA/LCA kit, gusset spindles, extended axles. BMC. Then there's the larger tire upgrades...regear and tires. Anything that I'm missing?

I have +2 Long Travel as well. You're looking at cam gussets, limit straps (welding involved), and occasional maintenance depending on how hard and where you drive it. I also went ahead and got extended travels in the rear + TC Panhard Bar, Upper and Lower Links, rear jounces, and my front bypasses are on their way.

If you haven't gotten a body chop, be prepared. That's usually the #1 issue with clearing larger tires. Although fiberglass fenders aren't "necessary", I did find them very useful for clearance. Otherwise, trimming the wheel well is necessary. Also be prepared to trim approximately 1.5 inches off your fender if you go long travel. Also, I didn't go with 35s like Lawndart did.

 

[PeoplecallmeIan]

I have +2 Long Travel as well. You're looking at cam gussets, limit straps (welding involved), and occasional maintenance depending on how hard and where you drive it. I also went ahead and got extended travels in the rear + TC Panhard Bar, Upper and Lower Links, rear jounces, and my front bypasses are on their way.

If you haven't gotten a body chop, be prepared. That's usually the #1 issue with clearing larger tires. Although fiberglass fenders aren't "necessary", I did find them very useful for clearance. Otherwise, trimming the wheel well is necessary. Also be prepared to trim approximately 1.5 inches off your fender if you go long travel. Also, I didn't go with 35s like Lawndart did.

I forgot to mention the limit straps..but cam gussets? Is that for alignment? And yes about the bypasses. All in all I think I want to re-do the all the above mentioned and maybe look into going with a curry rear axle but that's probably another couple grand. Ugh...i hate having no money.

 

[Aznisegi]

I forgot to mention the limit straps..but cam gussets? Is that for alignment? And yes about the bypasses. All in all I think I want to re-do the all the above mentioned and maybe look into going with a curry rear axle but that's probably another couple grand. Ugh...i hate having no money.

I looked into the Currie Rear axle already. It's in the future for me, but I need to get my truck up for a run we're gonna do soon. Need the bypasses and jounces more!

Cam Gussets are there to reinforce your cam tabs. You're putting alot of lateral stress on that hinge with your new setup. Beefier LCAs with two shocks dampening is a lot of force to put on that hinge without good reinforcements.

 

[wfo9]

My old runner had Icon stage 1 with KDSS. I don't know if it was either or a combination of the both, but my initial impression was that it rode rigidly. I could feel every joist & imperfection on pavement, but body roll was nonexistant.

In comparison, I really like the progressive valving of the Foxs....it feels smoother and less harsh on road (even if it is placebic ). Have yet to take them speed wheeling, but i imagine median off-road performance is similar.

Do you have KDSS still? KDSS has a major impact on the feel of the suspension.

 

[Easyrider18]

Do you think it was worth it to go LT? I have a set of kings for mid travel but thinking it might be better to ditch the stock set up for a long travel set up. I currently run the Icon's and was going to switch to the kings but in the end I felt that staying with the mid travel isn't going to be enough for what I want my 4runner to be capable of. I like to go fast in the desert. I'm probably not going to be able to do it til next year because... $$$.

Also, is it necessary to run glass?

If you want to go fast, all it depends on is your bank account and what you're willing to spend. If you really want to go long travel look outside of this forum for good information: race-dezert, tacomaworld (they have a good long travel sub forum and a lot of the suspension parts between the tacoma and 4runner are interchangable), dezertrangers etc.

Minimum if your primary thing is desert go fast stuff is to do a 3.5+ kit from Camburg/TC or LSK / Solo Motorsports for a kit with a fabricated spindle. Then you got to worry about the rear to keep up with the front which would require swapping over to rear leafs/cantilever system.

Also not necessary to run fiberglass. I have the 3.5+ TC race kit and for the moment have just trimmed the fenders. I'll go eventually with ADV fiberglass (the only fiberglass company that has a rise and flare to the fenders).

 

[PeoplecallmeIan]

If you want to go fast, all it depends on is your bank account and what you're willing to spend. If you really want to go long travel look outside of this forum for good information: race-dezert, tacomaworld (they have a good long travel sub forum and a lot of the suspension parts between the tacoma and 4runner are interchangable), dezertrangers etc.

Minimum if your primary thing is desert go fast stuff is to do a 3.5+ kit from Camburg/TC or LSK / Solo Motorsports for a kit with a fabricated spindle. Then you got to worry about the rear to keep up with the front which would require swapping over to rear leafs/cantilever system.

Also not necessary to run fiberglass. I have the 3.5+ TC race kit and for the moment have just trimmed the fenders. I'll go eventually with ADV fiberglass (the only fiberglass company that has a rise and flare to the fenders).

Thanks for the info dude. Yah i'm not really into the "overland" stuff. I mainly like to mob on the whoops and do some crawling some times. I feel like I'd do more damage on the rocks vs jumping my stuff. But yah I hear ya on the matching the rears with the front. Esentially I wanna build mine like a dude I follow in IG. His tag is JD_Brittain I believe.

 

[AlblineStar808]

im Still in debate. mainly because i want kings and anodized red but all i see is the fronts sitting lower than the rear and the ones that are cranked up are riding rough. i don't hear or see that issue with icons

 

[bonegatron]

Do you have KDSS still? KDSS has a major impact on the feel of the suspension.

No, no KDSS on the new vehicle w/ Fox's and I'm still loving the ride quality. I don't know if it is because I have 2.5s up front, but I have not experience any significant nose dive when braking or body roll.....but then again, I don't typically drive around town like Senna.

I would say that the change from KDSS to non-KDSS feels nice

 

[MidnightOffRoad]

I'm currently planning/shopping out my suspension improvements.

From what I've gathered, if you ASSUME the quality/performance of the three in the title are equal (not to stir a debate), but assuming they're all equally capable, reliable, customer service, etc....

It seems Kings are more value for the money.

You can get a King setup with adjustable coilovers, remote reservoirs (front and back) and both front and rear adjustable for well under $3k. Throw on some aftermarket control arms and you're right around the $3k mark.

With the other 2 you can't touch those features at that price point.

And I haven't read/heard many people saying Kings are cheap or interior in terms of performance or reliability.

It seems like the Foxes have a better adjustment design (twin ring vs. a locking screw) but beyond that, someone educate me on how to get the same features from the other two without spending thousands more.

Additionally, has anyone seen the new piggy back Fox setup that's going on the new TRD Pro? I'm guessing that when it's available it's going to be crazy expensive. All these manufacturers are playing the typical game of price gouging for newer generation (same damned components for previous gens but cheaper).

 

[wfo9]

I'm currently planning/shopping out my suspension improvements.

From what I've gathered, if you ASSUME the quality/performance of the three in the title are equal (not to stir a debate), but assuming they're all equally capable, reliable, customer service, etc....

It seems Kings are more value for the money.

You can get a King setup with adjustable coilovers, remote reservoirs (front and back) and both front and rear adjustable for well under $3k. Throw on some aftermarket control arms and you're right around the $3k mark.

With the other 2 you can't touch those features at that price point.

And I haven't read/heard many people saying Kings are cheap or interior in terms of performance or reliability.

It seems like the Foxes have a better adjustment design (twin ring vs. a locking screw) but beyond that, someone educate me on how to get the same features from the other two without spending thousands more.

Additionally, has anyone seen the new piggy back Fox setup that's going on the new TRD Pro? I'm guessing that when it's available it's going to be crazy expensive. All these manufacturers are playing the typical game of price gouging for newer generation (same damned components for previous gens but cheaper).

No difference in recent generations, so not sure how they are price gouging you. Same stuff from 2003 on works on them all. 15 years seems long enough to me.

They each have pros and cons and all run about the exact same price. There is no correct answer. Not sure where you are getting thousands more.. Must have trouble reading... Ignore the stage packaging.. Just go look up the shocks/coil overs themselves and they will all land within 200 of each other. Go with a re-seller vs direct to get a slightly better price.

Fox and King both should really be removed from the vehicle to adjust pre-load. Fox and king both use a single pinch collar. Fox has the best external dampening adjuster available, but they also offer the worst customer service of the 3.

 

[MidnightOffRoad]

No difference in recent generations, so not sure how they are price gouging you. Same stuff from 2003 on works on them all. 15 years seems long enough to me.

They each have pros and cons and all run about the exact same price. There is no correct answer. Not sure where you are getting thousands more.. Must have trouble reading... Ignore the stage packaging.. Just go look up the shocks/coil overs themselves and they will all land within 200 of each other. Go with a re-seller vs direct to get a slightly better price.

Fox and King both should really be removed from the vehicle to adjust pre-load. Fox and king both use a single pinch collar. Fox has the best external dampening adjuster available, but they also offer the worst customer service of the 3.

You're proving my point. Why do the same components cost less for previous generation(s) than the 5th gen? It's the same components. All the manufacturers do it and it's not just 4R or offroading.

Whenever something new comes out, they charge more for products to service it, even if it's the same (or virtually the same) components for previous gens. I'm betting the piggybacks featured on the new TRD pro are going to be murderously high. Look at the other thread with the "TRD PRO" for the FJ vs. the 4Runner. Same crap. (I get that it may be "tuned" a little differently, but the core components are virtually identical, with a slightly different spring rate). One kit is listed at $1500+ the other at $600 or so. It's sheer marketing. It doesn't cost them anything more to make. Maybe they put more R&D into the tuning for the newer 4RTRDPro, but the kits themselves shouldn't be 200% difference in cost.

As far as removing from the vehicle, it kinda defeats the purpose. Why wouldn't one just take the entire load off with a jack and make the adjustments?

 

[wfo9]

You're proving my point. Why do the same components cost less for previous generation(s) than the 5th gen? It's the same components. All the manufacturers do it and it's not just 4R or offroading.

Whenever something new comes out, they charge more for products to service it, even if it's the same (or virtually the same) components for previous gens. I'm betting the piggybacks featured on the new TRD pro are going to be murderously high. Look at the other thread with the "TRD PRO" for the FJ vs. the 4Runner. Same crap. (I get that it may be "tuned" a little differently, but the core components are virtually identical, with a slightly different spring rate). One kit is listed at $1500+ the other at $600 or so. It's sheer marketing. It doesn't cost them anything more to make. Maybe they put more R&D into the tuning for the newer 4RTRDPro, but the kits themselves shouldn't be 200% difference in cost.

As far as removing from the vehicle, it kinda defeats the purpose. Why wouldn't one just take the entire load off with a jack and make the adjustments?

My point is as far as king, Fox, Icon go. the same stuff has been in use since 2003. Same parts same price. The only difference is the swaybar relocation kit that they come with. Nobody is out to get you.... You don't have to buy anything.

Jacking up the vehicle has little to do with it in this case. You have to take the load off the springs with a spring compressor to do it 100% error free on the pinch collar type (it can be done on the vehicle, but the results are often the collar jumping off or lots of gouging...). The holes on the collar can't be completely reached on the vehicle. Especially with a remote resi in the way. The pinch has to be just right and that is difficult to get right. Too loose and it jumps. Too tight and it is not moving... The tension is high.

The ICONs use a non pinch fully machined collar with lots of holes in it....which makes it very easy on the vehicle with the weight off the tires. I've messed with different ones, they all have their pros and cons. The ICONs were a bit more engineered for this particular packaging in terms of the pre-load adjustment. Good luck with whatever you choose. It's never 100% frustration free.

 

[TrDpRo_J]

none of the above, wait for the Bil 8112's for the 4R platform

:ranger:

 

[PeoplecallmeIan]

none of the above, wait for the Bil 8112's for the 4R platform

:ranger:

....or wait for the king 3.0's