If You Off-road Your 5th Gen with P-metric Tires Please Vote

[Pedro367]

Helpful poll. Apologies for the necropost. I have a 2023 TRD ORP arriving next month and I won't want to be on the stock all-season tires for long. I have spent way too much time going down the P-metric vs. LT rabbithole. I am going with A/T tires.

I think I may indeed go P-metric, and I go offroading several times a year, mostly in Utah/Colorado deserts and mountains. I do value on-road drivability, and I'm leaning away from the LT E Range club. I've seen some people claim they'll only buy E-range LTs, even on lighter vehicles like 4Runners, and claim that you'll just pop P-metrics the second the pavement ends. It's my understanding that E-range tires are mainly to support large weights, yet people often claim they're exclusively buying them in relatively light vehicles for extra offroad sidewall puncture protection. I've found a thread where a Falken rep claimed the Wildpeak had identical sidewall protection in all varieties, from SL to E. Meanwhile, in my own experience, I took my '99 4Runner on half of Hell's Revenge on P-metric all-seasons, among several other trails, with no result. As far as my own uses, moderately rocky trails can happen, I err on the side of slow and careful, I avoid tree roots and other dangers, and in 11 on-and-off years I have never had an offroad tire failure, regardless of tire type. If I recall correctly, the TRD PRO model even comes on P-metric tires.

Load Range C LTs almost started looking like a solid middle ground (on the few A/T tires that offer them in factory size). Someone pointed out that BFG KO2's in Load C are load index 112--which is actually lower than the load index 113 A/S's the 4Runner comes on.

Wildpeak AT3W's, Open Country ATIII's, and the venerable KO2 seem like the best options available to me. Some offered P-metric SL, some LT Load C's, all offered in an LT Load E as well.

Given how many 5th gens are sold and offroaded, I feel like I'm the 100,000th person to have gone down this path of excessive research and overthinking!

For me, someone would have to prove that whatever popped their P-rated tire offroad wouldn't pop an E. Yes, I get the sidewalls are much thicker in an E tire. I'm not debating they aren't stronger. However, I went up one tire size to a 285/70 4-Ply Maxxis AT that ways only 44lbs and noticed a difference in overall power, huge difference in power towing my trailer up hills, and MPG loss. I have a set of 285/70 BFG KM3s that I got for free just sitting in my garage and have zero interest in running them because they are an E that weighs 70lbs a piece. I ran a C-load KO2 before the Maxxis and the difference in ride was very noticeable (for the better) with the lighter load Maxxis. Not to mention the cost difference. An E is not worth it for a mostly road vehicle that wheels even a handful of times a year, IMO.

But hey, that's just me.

 

[johnnygraphic]

I currently use E rated Falken Wildpeak AT3Ws. Although not an everyday need/requirement, I have done a handful of trails in AZ & Death Valley to see how nasty some of the trails can get. We did Outlaw Trail (AZ) and the Escape Trail, Goler Wash and Mengel Pass in DV at the end of Jan 2023. I was really taken aback with how sharp the rocks were in DV. A lot of it was created by the floods late last year. I sure was glad I had ponied up for the E rated.

However, no matter what type of tires you get, I would always have a plug kit and a sidewall patch kit if you go off road. Something like this:
4x4 Kit
– GlueTread
and
Tire Accessories | ARB 4x4 Accessories
^you have to scroll down to see the tire repair kit.

And of course a good tire inflator. (Viair or ARB etc).

 

[Jivewalker]

I'm running KO2 C rated on the 4runner and supposedly crappy P rated Bridgestone Dueler HT on my Land Cruiser. No issues with either but the P rated tires seem to have better road manners and ride quality given the lower inflation pressures for general road use. Off road, no issues with either. I tend to think the driving style and ultimately the vehicle drive systems have the biggest impact on performance unless you are mud bogging or hardcore rock climbing. Definately had more flats on road tread tires vs AT tread tires.

 

[TRD PANTHER]

I have been running SL 285/70-17 AT3 Wildpeaks for the last 2+ years with about 500 miles of off road and 4wheeling without issue. They weigh 50#’s each. A little heavier than the SL Toyo’s at 47 and the Maxxis at 44.
As was previously stated, a good tire repair kit, compressor, fix-a-flat, etc. is important. E rated for extreme terrain and weight.
I think the most important item related to a flat tire is carrying a good full size matching spare tire.

 

[DAW89446]

No, no blowout(s) on my '18 SR5. The first off road drive I took, about a month after I bought the truck, I sliced the sidewall of the front passenger side OEM tire a bit on a hidden rock as I was returning to a maintained dirt road. About 3" or so across, deep enough to show the inner layers. Drove the 100+ miles home. No air loss. Had it swapped out for the spare the following day. Two weeks later I had a new set of BFG All Terrain T/A KO2 Load Range E spooned on, which are still on the truck.

 

[thatoneguy]

For me, someone would have to prove that whatever popped their P-rated tire offroad wouldn't pop an E. Yes, I get the sidewalls are much thicker in an E tire. I'm not debating they aren't stronger. However, I went up one tire size to a 285/70 4-Ply Maxxis AT that ways only 44lbs and noticed a difference in overall power, huge difference in power towing my trailer up hills, and MPG loss. An E is not worth it for a mostly road vehicle that wheels even a handful of times a year, IMO.

That's exactly the thought I've had. How many of these situations exist where a serious P-metric A/T like a Wildpeak would pop a sidewall, where the same tire, same size, in its LT E-range variant would hold up?

I'm looking to keep stock size (or go to 255/75R17), and that results in a lot of A/Ts that are offered P-metrics or LT E-range in the same size.

 

[02SE]

Every time I've taken a 4wd vehicle on a trail with P-rated tires, I've gotten a flat.

These days I swap out the P-rated pavement tires 4wd vehicles often come with, and go with more durable LT tires before hitting the trail. So far that practice has resulted in no more flats.

My anecdotal experience.

 

[Jetboy]

I had an old comment on the first page here. I used the same P-metric tires through the Rubicon to add to the list. No flats there either. Chewed the shit out of my wheels on the rocks, but the tires didn't have any problems. I still didn't like those tires (Toyo AT2) because of balance problems, but that's an issue they had new and finally I swapped out to some LT tires mostly because I went up a size to 34" height and there aren't any P-metric tires in that size.

I had one sidewall partial cut in the LT tires. Not enough to replace the tire - cut a flap of rubber about the size of a dime, maybe 2mm thick, near the bead on one. No structural or air issues. But it did take a chunk out. Would that have damaged a P-metric? No idea. My guess is that it would be about the same. Hard to know without side by side testing in the same conditions.

I'm sure there are terrains where LT tires would hold up a lot better. My guess is one place is high speed desert use in sharp rocks. On slickrock - likely no meaningful difference. Rubicon and similar slower speed rock crawling - probably limited difference if any. In sandy terrain I think I'd prefer the P metrics for the softer sidewalls and lower friction = lower temperature in the sidewall = less breakdown when running at lower pressure. Worst condition for me is wet or snow on shale type rocks. I've cut a handful sidewalls in that scenario. They have all been LT tires. But usually C rated. Why I went to bias ply tires for my trail rig. I sure wouldn't want bais ply tires on my daily driver though.

My general experience is that high quality tires don't have flats very often regardless of rating. I can't remember the last time I had a Michelin tire have a flat on any vehicle I've owned. Low quality tires tend to have more problems. My TSLs go flat on their own - no need to puncture them. I'm not sure they really ever held air very well.

 

[hero1234]

I’m from the south where we don’t have a whole lot of sharp rocks. I do go hunting in Wyoming most years and have done most of the alpine loop and Imogene and most of the lower rated trails in Colorado and never had an issue on P rated tires. Maybe I’m lucky. Most punctures I see that happen on road or off road would have went through any type of tire, now sidewall is where I worry but so for been lucky. I run wild peaks

 

[aggrobot]

It’s worth noting that stock limiteds come with a p-rated tire. Absolutely nothing wrong with it. Some folks find the limits, others dont. They’re not all created equally. Dont cheap on them and bring a spare.

 

[thatoneguy]

It’s worth noting that stock limiteds come with a p-rated tire. Absolutely nothing wrong with it. Some folks find the limits, others dont. They’re not all created equally. Dont cheap on them and bring a spare.

It's actually more worth noting that ALL new 5th gen 4Runners come on P-rated tires. SR5, TRD Offroad, Limited, even the TRD PRO all come on P-metrics. If I recall correctly it's all-seasons in all trims except PRO, with the PRO coming on Nitto P-metric A/Ts.

 

[aggrobot]

It's actually more worth noting that ALL new 5th gen 4Runners come on P-rated tires. SR5, TRD Offroad, Limited, even the TRD PRO all come on P-metrics. If I recall correctly it's all-seasons in all trims except PRO, with the PRO coming on Nitto P-metric A/Ts.

Oh, nice! I only have my experience with the limited, but this is great info, and thanks for clarifying.

 

[CutthroatSlam]

From the deserts of SoCal and Nevada to the Northern Rockies of Montana, we’ve popped C- rated tires in all of them. LT E-rated 4 season AT tires is the only way to go for us. We lose nothing in ride feel, but the tires consistently make it 60K, whereas C-Rated would rarely see more than 40K.

 

[johnnygraphic]

The money you save going P rated tires vs E rated will not enter your mind when you’re stuck on a trail with a torn sidewall.

Either way, have a tire plug and a patch kit along with an air compressor with you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[thatoneguy]

After six years of this thread, there's some good statistics on the poll. Of people who have ACTUALLY OFFROADED THEIR P-METRICS, RATHER THAN JUST POST BASELESS STATEMENTS FROM ZERO EXPERIENCE, there's a 10:1 ratio on having not popped vs having popped the P's offroading. 9% have popped a P-metric offroad. 91% have not. Some members have done thousands of miles, even 5,000+ miles offroading/wheeling P-metrics without failures.

Hopefully that helps some that are on the fence. This thread really helped me once I discovered it.

 

[02SE]

It should be noted that not all trail running is the same. To some people a gravel road is the most challenging thing their tires will experience. Others are on trails with lots of sharp rocks, and other hazards that can easily destroy the toughest tire.

Evaluate the types of trails you intend to run, and make your choice. EVERY tire is a compromise in one aspect or another.

If my 4Runner were just a pavement and mild trail exploration vehicle, I'd be on P-rated tires for sure.

 

[thatoneguy]

It should be noted that not all trail running is the same. To some people a gravel road is the most challenging thing their tires will experience. Others are on trails with lots of sharp rocks, and other hazards that can easily destroy the toughest tire.

Evaluate the types of trails you intend to run, and make your choice. EVERY tire is a compromise in one aspect or another.

This point was discussed earlier, the question of "how many situations exist that would destroy a P-metric A/T or M/T, where an LT Load Range E would NOT be destroyed?"

I see a lot of 4Runners rolling around on Load Range E stock size KO2s. Their call, but I don't think I would do that. I'll report back if my P265/70R17 AT3W's ever fail offroad. I'm not particularly expecting it.

 

[CutthroatSlam]

After six years of this thread, there's some good statistics on the poll. Of people who have ACTUALLY OFFROADED THEIR P-METRICS, RATHER THAN JUST POST BASELESS STATEMENTS FROM ZERO EXPERIENCE, there's a 10:1 ratio on having not popped vs having popped the P's offroading. 9% have popped a P-metric offroad. 91% have not. Some members have done thousands of miles, even 5,000+ miles offroading/wheeling P-metrics without failures.

Hopefully that helps some that are on the fence. This thread really helped me once I discovered it.

Wow, that was a science based study so it must be true,op2:

338K miles and we've run both P rated and LT rated tires, on and off-road. Popped them both. All that said, prefer the LT rated tires as they last longer and ride better.

 

[thatoneguy]

Wow, that was a science based study so it must be true,op2:

338K miles and we've run both P rated and LT rated tires, on and off-road. Popped them both. All that said, prefer the LT rated tires as they last longer and ride better.

Attempting to throw away this much empirical user data isn't wise. To me it's helpful and nice to see.

If you want to throw away the collective experiences of a hundred people and instead focus on a combination of your own experiences and opinions on the topic, nobody is stopping you from doing that. But, for reasons that should be readily obvious, some people find the data from 100 people useful.

Seeing this thread is what made me go over the fence and choose P-metric AT3W's, when LT E's were offered in the same size. Nothin' but smiles yet, and I'll report if I pop them offroad in what feels like a situation where they shouldn't have or "where an LT E would have maybe survived" based on nothing but guessing.

 

[02SE]

This point was discussed earlier, the question of "how many situations exist that would destroy a P-metric A/T or M/T, where an LT Load Range E would NOT be destroyed?"

I see a lot of 4Runners rolling around on Load Range E stock size KO2s. Their call, but I don't think I would do that. I'll report back if my P265/70R17 AT3W's ever fail offroad. I'm not particularly expecting it.

Good luck.

Lots of stories of inability-to-balance the Falken Wildpeak AT3W's. A GM friend of a National tire chain even said they were considering stopping carrying them due to too many complaints.

When they were just about the cheapest tire you could buy, they became popular. Now they aren't the price leader, but uniformity doesn't seem to have improved.