IFS compared to straight axle?

santanvalleydirt

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I've heard a lot of people hate the independent front suspension on most 4Runners? Why is there more preference towards straight axles? What are the differences in off-roading capabilities? One guy I know cut the whole front end off of his 4Runner and welded in the front axle of a Grand Cherokee.
 
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Lots of different opinions out there. You could search and read threads for a week and not even come close to covering all of them. I've had a couple different IFS 4Runners, and my current wheeling rig is an '85 with a factory solid axle. Here's how it breaks down for me:

IFS, in general, is more versatile, more comfortable, and to an extent safer than a solid front axle. It handles better, it soaks up bumps better, it's less likely to fling you in the air and less likely to topple you when cornering at speed. Those benefits come at the expense of sturdiness, the IFS CV axle has to flex and rotate to greater degrees than a solid axle birfield or ujoint, so it's a little bit more likely to break when stressed. The solid axle also has the benefit of being easier to lift and add moderate amounts of flex to. Each has their own characteristic when flexing out - the IFS is more likely to cause the truck to lean away from the obstacle, and too much of that can throw your center of balance off and cause a roll. On the other hand, the IFS keeps you lower than the solid axle when flexing, which can prevent an IFS truck from rolling in the same spot that'll put a solid axle truck on it's roof.

That's just IFS vs SA in general, though. The Toyota CV axle is actually fairly stout, and can handle some decent abuse. It's also very easy to mod it to a long travel setup that flexes just as well as a modded solid axle. I'd bet 9 out of 10 guys who SAS their 4Runners are doing it for macho points and don't actually come anywhere near using the full capability of their IFS. The guy you know who stuck that JGC axle under the front of his 4Runner is exhibit A - I'm sure he's much more impressed with his truck now, but that Dana 30 is actually a weaker axle than the Toyota IFS he removed. If he really uses it at all, he'll be breaking ujoints like they're going out of style, and if he doesn't, he's downgraded the versatility and reliability of his 4Runner for nothing. He's a victim of The Cult Of The Solid Axle.

If you're thinking about swapping, ask yourself when's the last time you broke a CV on the trail, let that be your guide. If you're breaking CV shafts left and right, it's maybe time to think about a swap (or an upgrade to RCVs, if you're flush). Otherwise, the IFS is almost always a better choice in my opinion.
 
Lots of different opinions out there. You could search and read threads for a week and not even come close to covering all of them. I've had a couple different IFS 4Runners, and my current wheeling rig is an '85 with a factory solid axle. Here's how it breaks down for me:

IFS, in general, is more versatile, more comfortable, and to an extent safer than a solid front axle. It handles better, it soaks up bumps better, it's less likely to fling you in the air and less likely to topple you when cornering at speed. Those benefits come at the expense of sturdiness, the IFS CV axle has to flex and rotate to greater degrees than a solid axle birfield or ujoint, so it's a little bit more likely to break when stressed. The solid axle also has the benefit of being easier to lift and add moderate amounts of flex to. Each has their own characteristic when flexing out - the IFS is more likely to cause the truck to lean away from the obstacle, and too much of that can throw your center of balance off and cause a roll. On the other hand, the IFS keeps you lower than the solid axle when flexing, which can prevent an IFS truck from rolling in the same spot that'll put a solid axle truck on it's roof.

That's just IFS vs SA in general, though. The Toyota CV axle is actually fairly stout, and can handle some decent abuse. It's also very easy to mod it to a long travel setup that flexes just as well as a modded solid axle. I'd bet 9 out of 10 guys who SAS their 4Runners are doing it for macho points and don't actually come anywhere near using the full capability of their IFS. The guy you know who stuck that JGC axle under the front of his 4Runner is exhibit A - I'm sure he's much more impressed with his truck now, but that Dana 30 is actually a weaker axle than the Toyota IFS he removed. If he really uses it at all, he'll be breaking ujoints like they're going out of style, and if he doesn't, he's downgraded the versatility and reliability of his 4Runner for nothing. He's a victim of The Cult Of The Solid Axle.

If you're thinking about swapping, ask yourself when's the last time you broke a CV on the trail, let that be your guide. If you're breaking CV shafts left and right, it's maybe time to think about a swap (or an upgrade to RCVs, if you're flush). Otherwise, the IFS is almost always a better choice in my opinion.


Wow! Thanks for such a long helpful respond. Great to know. I definitely won't be swapping anything out. I personally like the look and the feel of the IFS, but I was getting a little harassment from some people saying the IFS makes for an almost useless off-roader, and the coils instead of the leaf springs making it doubly so.
 
Awesome response, I thought about sas on my 4runner. Come to think of it, I only broke 1 cv axles on my 2nd gen. It probably be a waste of my fund that can be put else where. I am no where near into hardcore crawling.
 
some people saying the IFS makes for an almost useless off-roader, and the coils instead of the leaf springs making it doubly so.

Ignorance (which unfortunately is all too common among a certain class of four wheeler). Every suspension setup has its pros and cons, IFS hardly makes for a useless wheeler. You don't see quite as many 1st and 2nd gen IFS trucks wheeling hard because it's so easy to SAS them, but check out the 3rd gen section of this board for oodles of IFS trucks gettin' it done on the hardest trails in the west.

Awesome response, I thought about sas on my 4runner. Come to think of it, I only broke 1 cv axles on my 2nd gen. It probably be a waste of my fund that can be put else where. I am no where near into hardcore crawling.

Probably so. For the cost of a TrailGear SAS kit plus an axle and everything else, you can swap to long travel, lock the rear diff, put 4.7s in the transfer case, and run the wheels off of any open-diffed solid axle truck.
 
I don't think I've seen an example of long travel on a 2nd or 1st Gen. Is there anyone on here with a good thread who's done it?

There is a guy on here who had a long travel 2nd gen. He said it was awesome. I have wheeled the crap out of my IFS. I did break one of my cv's the first time out after i put my lift and tires on it. I think the break might have something to do with how wide my tires were and how offset the rims are. It does go where i want it to. It would be nice to have more travel in the front. It seems like my lift gave me space for bigger tires but not to much as far as flex in the front. I could be wrong about that its just how it felt when i had it out. I am planning to do a SAS eventually, but for now im going to go with 5.29's and heavy duty cv's on the front
 
[MENTION=49649]KidVermicious[/MENTION] - that is probably the best response to this question I have ever seen!

I have a Blazeland Long Travel on my 89 4Runner and I love it! Its a manual with 33's, 4:88's, 4.7 T-Case, Detroit locker in the rear - I have only ever broke a CV once and that was like 8-9 years go when the truck was stock and I was inexperienced. I go wheelin with a group of heavily modified Jeeps and I can keep up with them pretty much anywhere they go -

[MENTION=120467]santanvalleydirt[/MENTION] - here are some pics and a video of my LT 1st Gen:













<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/jCZwyBGNhSE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

santanvalleydirt - I see you're in AZ also - I live in Chandler, if you ever want to check out my setup or even go wheelin with us so you can see it work in person let me know! I'm always down to get some dirt on the tires :)
 
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[MENTION=112004]lofreqjeff[/MENTION] nice 1st gen that thing is sick. How much did the long travel run you if you dont mind me asking?
 
That looks fantastic! That thing is down right beastly. As a full-time college student with a job I have little time for the long off-road treks I would love to have. If I ever get any free time that sounds awesome. I've got mostly stock parts but I would love to see what my Runner can handle.
 
What are you doing for tie rod ends there, Jeff, is that heims and stainless I see?

I love that truck so much.

Thank you ~ its become a dream come true

Most of the parts are stock. The Blazeland kit uses factory control arms that are lengthened, the stainless you see is just some extra long, extra beefy tie rod sleeves for the wider stance. I forgot to mention I'm running Old Man Emu t-bars too.

Tie rods, ball joints, & steering rod are all from Autozone and I do a full tear down and rebuild once a year and put on brand new parts - take advantage of the lifetime warranty, then I get it aligned at Firestone - lifetime alignment too :)

[MENTION=112004]lofreqjeff[/MENTION] nice 1st gen that thing is sick. How much did the long travel run you if you dont mind me asking?

Thanks!
I got Blazeland kit used from a good friend who only had it on his truck about 500 miles and I don't think it ever went off pavement. He had some engine, trans & T-case issues and kinda gave up on the who truck and parted it out. He wanted my stock parts so I gave him $1200 and all my factory parts plus helped him do all the work. I got all 4 control arms, Bilstein shocks, T-100 CV's, extended brake lines - I already had the OME t-bars.

That looks fantastic! That thing is down right beastly. As a full-time college student with a job I have little time for the long off-road treks I would love to have. If I ever get any free time that sounds awesome. I've got mostly stock parts but I would love to see what my Runner can handle.

Thank you :)
I know how that goes - we do day trips around town all the time. We don't have to be gone all day to hit some trails in Florence, or out by Saguaro Lake. Many times we meet up around 8am and can be home around 3-4ish. Lately we've been going out on Sundays, but I'm off work Saturday and Sunday so whatever works. So if you can get away for a few hours some day, let me know, I can show you around some close and mild trails to get you familiar with your rig and what its capable of.

There is also a group from Expedition Portal that get together every now and then on a Thursday night, I don't remember when the next meet up is, but I think its coming up.
 
IFS is very capable once you sink enough money into it. The reason most people go with a straight axle is cost per gain. A long travel suspension will run you close to $3k vs. spending maybe $1k to get the same level of performance out of a straight axle and the SA will be a bit more durable. To say that IFS isn't off road worthy is far from the truth. An IFS with enough money and time in it will beat out a SA any day on most terrain and conditions, it's just getting it there. So, just ignore the IFS haters. And yes I drive an 85 SA runner, but I've owned IFS trucks as well
 
That sounds pretty cool! Feel free to message me whenever you end up doing something like that. I'll let you know if I have the time. I'm a little inexperienced with off-roading. Usually it's my step dad and I roaming around the empty fields near where we live. He's got a 1980 Cj5 so it's fun to see how each vehicle handles in comparison.
 
I built a straight axle 4Runner years ago w 38"s and it served it purpose, mud, snow and trails - got bored with that and sold it.
But I always wanted a Go-fast one, so I started with another one did the long travel front end, then wasnt happy with the rear and built it to keep up.
I love the IFS for what I do with mine.
But as far as IFS being expensive, I knew it was going to be BUT WOW!!!
Example, front end
JD Kit - $2000
Shock hoops $350 - Saved me a ton of time
King Coil overs - $1400
King Bipasses = $1700
King Bumps w cans = $600
JD Steering kit = $1300
Real T100 Axles used = $350
Straps = $60
Rear support = $90
Rotors and rebuilt front end while I was there = ??? $600
Lower TC Uniballs = $500
Reamer for steering = $80
Then some DOM for front support, built a skid plate...........
Yes I could have done it with less but I also wanted it done right and not to have any issues while I was way away from home, it has paid off for me but it was expensive!!! I knew it was going to be but I was still surprised when I add it up.
The rear was even more expensive and took much longer to build by the time I got it done :)

Honestly, just go beat on them stock, they will take a tone of abuse as long as you are not an idiot about it, and usually pretty easy to repair. :) I kept mine "stock" for several years - OME Shocks and ARBs F&R - and beat on it, until I tore the shock through the mount and needed to repair it........
 
I made the switch from IFS so SA for wheeling durability. My stock IFS front end was being torn apart by the 35s I was running. Was constantly dealing with worn out tie rods, ball joints and idler arms, its final death was the spider gears in the open diff let go.

I could build a durable solid axle cheaper than I could build a durable IFS to handle the 38s I had. My truck doesnt see pavement ever, so it was a no brainer.
 
I have no complaints with the 1st gen IFS. It took a lot of hard hits and never left me stranded once. Now I'm into my own LT build that is going to take a lot more abuse :)
 

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Good thread! I'm currently weighing out the pro's & cons of LT IFS vs. SAS for my build. I'm honestly not sure which way I'm going to go with it. I've been eyeballing the blazeland kit though.

Has anyone done a LT IFS with leaf conversion in the rear? (Jeff I'm not familiar with that year, does it have leafs in the rear?)
 

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