I'm back - but not happy

[Matt fe2o3]

they can't reduce your warranty because someone else did the work
https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0138-auto-warranties-routine-maintenance#do


as long as it's a good shop that will do the work properly, it will not impact your warranty

If it's improper they can and will.

 

[Matt fe2o3]

they can't reduce your warranty because someone else did the work
https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0138-auto-warranties-routine-maintenance#do


as long as it's a good shop that will do the work properly, it will not impact your warranty

And the part you did not quote:


The manufacturer or dealer can, however, require consumers to use select repair facilities if the repair services are provided to consumers free of charge under the warranty.

That said, there may be certain situations where a repair may not be covered. For example, if you or your mechanic replaced a belt improperly and your engine is damaged as a result, your manufacturer or dealer may deny responsibility for fixing the engine under the warranty. However, according to the FTC, the manufacturer or dealer must be able to demonstrate that it was the improper belt replacement — rather than some other defect — that caused the damage to your engine. The warranty would still be in effect for other parts of your car.

In fact what they do in these cases is deny the work. Then you sit in line for a long time (almost 3 years in my case) waiting for arbitration to complete.

If I can avoid that up front I will. But you are right - if all done properly it should not be an issue. Unfortunately "should" is not a shall or must.

 

[ColoradoToyota]

glad everyone was ok. pretty crazy how much damage that caused.

 

[Matt fe2o3]

glad everyone was ok. pretty crazy how much damage that caused.

Thanks! Not what I had planned on - honestly it's why I put the girls in bigger vehicles as opposed to small cars.

Looking at a lot of similar damage issues on 4Runners. The old early 1970's Country Squire Station wagon could get hit and hit and hit - not these babies.

I know from having bumper covers replaced that it does not take much to cause 18-2400 in damage. At the end of the day it's just stuff and since we pretty much own the vehicle - even at the end of the day if I'm not happy I'll just trade it in - take the hit and roll away with another one.

 

[ColoradoToyota]

Thanks! Not what I had planned on - honestly it's why I put the girls in bigger vehicles as opposed to small cars.

Looking at a lot of similar damage issues on 4Runners. The old early 1970's Country Squire Station wagon could get hit and hit and hit - not these babies.

I know from having bumper covers replaced that it does not take much to cause 18-2400 in damage. At the end of the day it's just stuff and since we pretty much own the vehicle - even at the end of the day if I'm not happy I'll just trade it in - take the hit and roll away with another one.

I think that's a lot of new cars these days really. All plastic but also with bumpers and panels designed to crush and absorb impact. For what it's worth, this vehicle has saved my life which is why I purchased one again after getting totaled out. I hit an elk calf at 80mph in a 2016 4runner and if you put yours and mine next to one another, 10/10 people would think yours hit the elk (except all my airbags deployed) - link in my sig if you're curious.

Like you said, stuff is just stuff, even a small parking lot incident can be enough to make you count your blessings and value the intangibles.

 

[Matt fe2o3]

I think that's a lot of new cars these days really. All plastic but also with bumpers and panels designed to crush and absorb impact. For what it's worth, this vehicle has saved my life which is why I purchased one again after getting totaled out. I hit an elk calf at 80mph in a 2016 4runner and if you put yours and mine next to one another, 10/10 people would think yours hit the elk (except all my airbags deployed) - link in my sig if you're curious.

Like you said, stuff is just stuff, even a small parking lot incident can be enough to make you count your blessings and value the intangibles.

I'm glad you and everyone is OK. We don't get Elk down here (well some coastal ones)- mostly just small deer and a fairly good number of them.

A few hours north we get Roosevelt Elk and those things are massive - all over the road up 101. Just incredible animals - and they just stand there in the road....

That's a really scary set of pics from your crash. I don't know anything about airbags but there must be some pressure threshold. Epic. Good enough reason to buy another - stuff is easy.

 

[Matt fe2o3]

Well went out to shop today to look at tear down. Took a buddy from work who was ASE guy for first career before coming to work on the trains.

Estimate went from 8,600 to 18,200 without going up on the lift. Bottom of transmission was in contact with tree, wood everywhere from lower control arm to transmission pan. None of that was included in supplemental.

Dash has to come out to replace heater core as line was pinched and damaged. Wiring harness got yanked, six plugs pulled out it it, bare wire and make spades pulled through connectors. They want to splice in new connectors because a new harness is 2,900 and splicing is 60 bucks or something.

Both fenders and whole front damaged. Shop has spec’d out a lot of aftermarket parts and some salvage (small low dollar parts). Traction Control light on. Air pump cracked. 17 pages

Some concern about losing the remainder of my factory warranty and there are a lot of warning signs in the estimate about it. Anyway that’s another discussion. I’ll post up some pics if my iPhone will let me.

 

[Matt fe2o3]

More

 

[philsey]

They want to splice in new connectors .....

Everything else aside, you'd be an absolute fool to accept this. Talk about a ticking bomb.

 

[catrains]

the cost is body damage of $18K so then the drive train will most likely have problems .. toyota parts are expensive so I would not do the fix should be totaled with those pictures .
most all the time a front end collision and the lack of a steel bumper and steel member support , these are costly to repair . warranty will be gone.

you work on trains ? I worked on them for a few decades.. member of ATU ?

 

[nb rob]

holy smoke!

I'd go back and cut that tree down and make a bumper out of that

 

[Bodhi327]

Splice?

Just buy the new harness, they do many other friggin parts to order. I would fight it out. Maybe they end up totaling it if you are a big enough pain in the ass.
Once warranty is up your stuck...so all new or walk. That’s a 2015? Sr5? It’s a truck worth 25k on the used market??, why would the insurance company bother to fix it?

 

[Matt fe2o3]

the cost is body damage of $18K so then the drive train will most likely have problems .. toyota parts are expensive so I would not do the fix should be totaled with those pictures .
most all the time a front end collision and the lack of a steel bumper and steel member support , these are costly to repair . warranty will be gone.

you work on trains ? I worked on them for a few decades.. member of ATU ?

Yea I have to have a talk with the adjuster.

Yes local 1555.

 

[catrains]

Yea I have to have a talk with the adjuster.

Yes local 1555.

local 589 transit tech ..was checking out phoenix and San Diego went to the repair facility's ..much cleaner than where I worked ..
unfortunately living costs too high compared to Boston area.

 

[Matt fe2o3]

Just buy the new harness, they do many other friggin parts to order. I would fight it out. Maybe they end up totaling it if you are a big enough pain in the ass.
Once warranty is up your stuck...so all new or walk. That’s a 2015? Sr5? It’s a truck worth 25k on the used market??, why would the insurance company bother to fix it?

I don’t know what their # is on value. Here in N.Cal the range is 28 to 33k or more, sendom less. 20k miles on it. Thier value always includes sales tax and prorated license so even at 28k $ it’s a low # of 31K.

However you are right, if the harness is added in and they get another 9k in supplements the value is basically total.

I went to Toyota’s certified collision center after the tear down, showed them the pics and they said totaled was probable. I did get their paper on warranty transfer if repairs done at Toyota.

I’m drafting a email to insurance. I don’t want to be a dick. It was my wife’s fault, which means it’s my fault - all the same if there is a fundamental safety or repair concern it has to be addressed.

I’m in a position where we owe very little on it and could pay it off and buy another one cash without insurance - and that only means I’m not in a financial bind pressuring me to make snap decisions.

That said it’s taking up a valuable bay at a repair shop and I get that too.

 

[flea1983]

I don’t know what their # is on value. Here in N.Cal the range is 28 to 33k or more, sendom less. 20k miles on it. Thier value always includes sales tax and prorated license so even at 28k $ it’s a low # of 31K.

However you are right, if the harness is added in and they get another 9k in supplements the value is basically total.

I went to Toyota’s certified collision center after the tear down, showed them the pics and they said totaled was probable. I did get their paper on warranty transfer if repairs done at Toyota.

I’m drafting a email to insurance. I don’t want to be a dick. It was my wife’s fault, which means it’s my fault - all the same if there is a fundamental safety or repair concern it has to be addressed.

I’m in a position where we owe very little on it and could pay it off and buy another one cash without insurance - and that only means I’m not in a financial bind pressuring me to make snap decisions.

That said it’s taking up a valuable bay at a repair shop and I get that too.

Regardless if it’s you, your wife, or someone else’s fault, this is what you pay insurance for. If you want oem parts, i’d push for it. Same with totaling it, if the damages are really close to the value of the vehicle, i’d push to have it totaled. It’s literslly what you pay for, and it’s not like the insurance companies can’t afford it.

 

[flyrv9]

As far as the damage to the wiring - ref pics in posts 67 & 68. They show pics of damaged wiring and connectors with pins pulled out and bent. This is clear indication that at least some of that wiring was stretched and some of the insulation was scrapped off. The question is how many other places have damage that can't be seen. Sure those connectors can be replaced as long as you have a guy that knows how to properly re-terminate and crimp new pins on and reseat them correctly into new connectors. Then it should all be rung out (continunity check) to verify proper readings.

The chances for future electrical problems is high with this type of repair. The best way is to replace all damaged wire harnesses with new. Then youre main worry would be that all connectors were seated properly. One question is what warranty comes with this type of repair? If you get like 90 days then push for new wire harnesses not repaired ones.

 

[Matt fe2o3]

As far as the damage to the wiring - ref pics in posts 67 & 68. They show pics of damaged wiring and connectors with pins pulled out and bent. This is clear indication that at least some of that wiring was stretched and some of the insulation was scrapped off. The question is how many other places have damage that can't be seen. Sure those connectors can be replaced as long as you have a guy that knows how to properly re-terminate and crimp new pins on and reseat them correctly into new connectors. Then it should all be rung out (continunity check) to verify proper readings.

The chances for future electrical problems is high with this type of repair. The best way is to replace all damaged wire harnesses with new. Then youre main worry would be that all connectors were seated properly. One question is what warranty comes with this type of repair? If you get like 90 days then push for new wire harnesses not repaired ones.

Thanks - I have some similar concerns. From working on a fairly modern Italian bike for years (think one step up from British 1980 automotive wiring) I know the issues harnesses can cause - and why we test.

Anyway I've been through the supplemental quote and looked at what the repair company proposes. A few interesting things come up.

California gives leeway to insurers to use aftermarket and otherwise salvage parts as long as they are certified to meet OEM standards. I have yet to find any aftermarket/refurbish place that states that in their guarantee - and I have the list. The insurance company does not even state it. I suspect most people don't even look;

1). Wiring Harness. They state the new harness is 2,900. I see from Toyota links that price is about 1,000 high from a couple Toyota dealers. That said I see the Harness Repair Manual (pretty old) and it specifies testing. I will discuss with adjuster - I don't know how involved a harness replacement is.

2). Recon bumper cover. Local farm country place in Gilroy, CA. No website. No idea what they recondition and supply (e.g, it it a reconditioned OEM or a reconditioned aftermarket??). Not thrilled about this. New aftermarket - OK, used reconditioned who knows what - not so much interested.

3). Keystone out of Stockton, CA for sheet metal (hood fender, etc). There is a "HSS" designation I don't understand what that means. No OEM equiv. statement on their guarantee.

4). Crest Industries out of Fenton, MO. This is a fastener outfit. No idea on warranty as none is stated on their website. Overall not concerned. This is probably everybody's go to place.

5). All Star Auto Lights. 1 Year warranty. This is for headlight and fog light assy. Specified NSF, not OEM - but NSF is probably OK.

6). The pricing for the harness, hood and fender from aftermarket was higher than OEM Toyota using the prices from imtoyotaparts dot com and toyotapartsdeal dot com

here's what California says: https://www.insurance.ca.gov/0250-i...lletin-notices-commiss-opinion/CCR2695-8g.cfm

Shop is 30+ miles from my house - which in bay area traffic beans 2-3 hours RT through the worst traffic in the SF area. So moving to Toyota of Berkeley Collision Center halves that. That is what I see in the cards.

Turns out I know the local technical rep for Safeco (only through handling not-at-fault claims in the past). Decent guy from my previous experiences.

Funny thing is the estimate that went from 8.6 to 18.2 as earlier posted - I stopped in to my trusted body shop guy last week - just to chat - as he can't do any more for protecting my warranty than anyone else - he looked at the initial pictures I posted and said 18 grand. Funny that. Nice folks.

Anyway thanks for putting up with this - hopefully some of this info makes sense.

If you guys (and gals) ever want to check out electrical connectors for projects the guy in Japan I get those hard to find things is a fellow motorcycle enthusiast Jim Davis over at easternbeaver dot com. Neat stuff - he makes great wiring - a real craftsman.

 

[1BAMF]

I don’t know what their # is on value. Here in N.Cal the range is 28 to 33k or more, sendom less. 20k miles on it. Thier value always includes sales tax and prorated license so even at 28k $ it’s a low # of 31K.

However you are right, if the harness is added in and they get another 9k in supplements the value is basically total.

I went to Toyota’s certified collision center after the tear down, showed them the pics and they said totaled was probable. I did get their paper on warranty transfer if repairs done at Toyota.

I’m drafting a email to insurance. I don’t want to be a dick. It was my wife’s fault, which means it’s my fault - all the same if there is a fundamental safety or repair concern it has to be addressed.

I’m in a position where we owe very little on it and could pay it off and buy another one cash without insurance - and that only means I’m not in a financial bind pressuring me to make snap decisions.

That said it’s taking up a valuable bay at a repair shop and I get that too.

Glad your wife and daughter are ok, the rest is just stuff, don't sweat it.

Don't let them cobble your 4runner together, especially the electrical, guaranteed failure points. Push to have it totaled or fix it and dump it and move on. WAY too many variables with the vehicle to keep it. Good luck!

 

[flyrv9]

What does your policy say about OEM parts vs aftermarket vs used? That is where the insurance co will decide what gets used. Sometimes, the policy holder gets the option to pay the difference if they want. I don't know anything about safeco. Lots of British cars, bikes & even airplanes had electrical systems from Lucas Leach. Interesting outfit - they were known for issues in earlier times; but got better later on.

BTW I must say you have handled the few negative posts on this thread in an adult and respectful manner. Doesn't take much to be an internet tough guy as long as their mom lets them use the computer! Kudos to you.