Inv4drZm's Build Thread

[aemravan]

Just wanted to say that I spent the last 2 days reading through your thread start to finish. I always knew you had a bad rig since joining on here a year ago, but it was really awesome and encouraging to walk through the build start to finish.


I've been widely considering going to 37's for my build way on down the road, but just don't know if I can justify the cost.. I'd go either dana 60 rear or the tundra 10.5 like you thought about in order to gain clearance and equal out the stance with a +2 or +3.5 LT kit up front.. its a deep..deeep rabbit hole for sure.

I was surprised to see how relatively easy your 37's fit.. I dont know if you've seen the ToothlessT4r on instagram or not, but it looks like he resorted to quite a lot more firewall beating to clear his.. granted he is on a his own design of a log travel up front and is probably maximizing uptravel but anyhow..

How has your steering rack held up with the 37's? My thought would be to custom mount the tundra rack if I ever run 37's. Theres quite a bit of plasma cutting on the drivers side engine mount to clear the steering shaft but looks doable.


with regards to the rear coilover setup, have you considered maybe doing the ORI struts in their 14" travel setup? I just stumbled across those and have been considering them for a future build since they don't require a spring at all, are tunable, and are less wide in total diameter. Granted they're a bit pricier than coilovers, and the lead times look pretty long right now..


I also got pretty excited at the idea of a 19gal tank mounted in the rear. Going to do some more digging into the feasibility of that. Ultimately It would be nice to get rid of my tank and be able to run a double triangulated 4 link with longer arms... a 3-link setup is an option for the rear... however, for a heavy daily driven rig I would much prefer the added insurance of a 4-link in case of a failure... Without relocating the tank I was looking at the possibility of doing a radius arm setup on a longer arm... but if there is hope to move the tank that would open up the possibilities greatly.


Anyhow, refreshing to see your build thread is still active and going man, keep it up!

 

[Inv4drZm]

Just wanted to say that I spent the last 2 days reading through your thread start to finish. I always knew you had a bad rig since joining on here a year ago, but it was really awesome and encouraging to walk through the build start to finish.


I've been widely considering going to 37's for my build way on down the road, but just don't know if I can justify the cost.. I'd go either dana 60 rear or the tundra 10.5 like you thought about in order to gain clearance and equal out the stance with a +2 or +3.5 LT kit up front.. its a deep..deeep rabbit hole for sure.

I was surprised to see how relatively easy your 37's fit.. I dont know if you've seen the ToothlessT4r on instagram or not, but it looks like he resorted to quite a lot more firewall beating to clear his.. granted he is on a his own design of a log travel up front and is probably maximizing uptravel but anyhow..

One thing I don't like about instagram is it's hard to tell what mods people have. I haven't seen his truck but it looks similar to mine. Yes the LT geometry and alignment #s come into play, I also have a 1.5" body lift, but he does have fiberglass fenders so those are both probably the limits of our uptravel.

How has your steering rack held up with the 37's? My thought would be to custom mount the tundra rack if I ever run 37's. Theres quite a bit of plasma cutting on the drivers side engine mount to clear the steering shaft but looks doable.

Its held up fine for the Rubicon and Blanca Peak, but I'll admit I haven't wheeled it the past year or so. My brother mounted a tundra rack on his FJ but the geometry wasn't quite right and it squeals tires quite easily on turns.

with regards to the rear coilover setup, have you considered maybe doing the ORI struts in their 14" travel setup? I just stumbled across those and have been considering them for a future build since they don't require a spring at all, are tunable, and are less wide in total diameter. Granted they're a bit pricier than coilovers, and the lead times look pretty long right now..

I haven't considered anything of that nature, I'd prefer to match the front setup with Kings. There should be plenty of room.

I also got pretty excited at the idea of a 19gal tank mounted in the rear. Going to do some more digging into the feasibility of that. Ultimately It would be nice to get rid of my tank and be able to run a double triangulated 4 link with longer arms... a 3-link setup is an option for the rear... however, for a heavy daily driven rig I would much prefer the added insurance of a 4-link in case of a failure... Without relocating the tank I was looking at the possibility of doing a radius arm setup on a longer arm... but if there is hope to move the tank that would open up the possibilities greatly.


Anyhow, refreshing to see your build thread is still active and going man, keep it up!

I love the idea of a 4 link rear, and if you look up Dirt Daily pond scum 4runner on youtube, if you have a wide enough rear axle, you can keep some of the same 4Runner link mounts and triangulate the uppers and the lowers. What keeps me from doing this on mine is I think I want to keep the oem Toyota tank for reliability and reduced fuel starvation issues at steep inclines. Either the 4R tank or the smaller FJ tank raised up 1.5", my bodylift amount, should help a lot and is pretty much free. That said who knows what I'll end up doing if anything. I don't like swing arms, and with my huge spare tire in the cab a rear full-size fuel tank probably won't fit without losing even more cargo storage (my sleeping platform) or ground clearance.

 

[Inv4drZm]

I think I'll have to pass on getting a CNC plasma torch for now. I don't have the room or 220v outlet, and I don't want to have my grandpa store it for me at his shop, it's already pretty full.

But as far as good news I think I'll take some measurements and start designing a better LT kit for my truck this winter. I'll coin it MZLT, (my initials lmao). Similar to RCLT, but I don't know about needing a full fabricated spindle; double shear steering and gusseting the stock spindle should be enough for me. Unless I can get more ground clearance or need to change the steering arm geometry for a LC200 steering rack.

I'll design it using 3D CAD, my full time job, and have it all laser cut at a local fab shop and I'll mig weld it. Trying to design it for maximum ground clearance, push the tire forward +2", +3.5" length, minimal bump steer and camber change throughout the travel, and max strength within reason. Wish me luck, it should be a fun learning process.

 

[Inv4drZm]

The start of a LCA.

 

[Inv4drZm]

More rough sketching.

Still need to add shock mounts, finish the backside, add internal gusseting that slots into the top and bottom plates, and clean up bushing/uniball mounting.

And UCA.

 

[slprice1631]

I really like the rear bumper option, think I'll look at that myself. Did you get it built or as a kit?

 

[Inv4drZm]

I really like the rear bumper option, think I'll look at that myself. Did you get it built or as a kit?

I got it as a kit so I could modify it a little for my body lift. I added the spacer plates to raises the top tubes up 1.5"

 

[Inv4drZm]

We're getting closer boys.

 

[Inv4drZm]

I'm at a design crossroad with my LCA. Should I make the lower edge a welded joint or a bend in the sheet metal? According to this Camburg video, a broke edge eliminates the chance of a weld cracking from hitting a rock. There are actually 4 good options:

-Inside corner joint. Where the lower plate overshoots the vertical plate 1/8"-1/4" and that lip gets welded. Like Total Chaos arms.

-Outside corner joint. The lower plate and horizontal plate meet together and get welded. Like most other aftermarket arms.

-Outside corner joint w/ doubler. Same as outside corner joint but with an added plate that wraps around the edge to protect it. The weld will have to lie flush for this to work well without a gap.

-Broke (bent) sheet. No weld

I think I might try to tig weld these arms, we'll see once I get more weld practice in.

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[JONBOY345]

I'm at a design crossroad with my LCA. Should I make the lower edge a welded joint or a bend in the sheet metal? According to this Camburg video, a broke edge eliminates the chance of a weld cracking from hitting a rock. There are actually 4 good options:

-Inside corner joint. Where the lower plate overshoots the vertical plate 1/8"-1/4" and that lip gets welded. Like Total Chaos arms.

-Outside corner joint. The lower plate and horizontal plate meet together and get welded. Like most other aftermarket arms.

-Outside corner joint w/ doubler. Same as outside corner joint but with an added plate that wraps around the edge to protect it. The weld will have to lie flush for this to work well without a gap.

-Broke (bent) sheet. No weld

I think I might try to tig weld these arms, we'll see once I get more weld practice in.

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#3 IMO.

If the weld isn't flat, grind it till it is.

 

[aemravan]

That is awesome progress on the design man, kudos.

The couple of different DYI LT designs I've seen (many of which seemed to get some pretty decent hard use out of) all went with a welded joint. If you have a good, hot, penetrating weld, you're not going to break it. Plenty of other weak points to give first. The simplicity of a welded joint vs going bent sheetmetal wins for me hands down.

On a side note, I am still undecided whether I want to go solid axle or LT up front.. but in the process I have acquired a front end frame cad model (basically bought it second hand from a guy who did his own design as well for $40 bucks, he paid 100 so I figured it was reasonable) shoot me a PM if you're interested and I can get it over to you if you need to mock your design up using it. I haven't done much with it yet but does seem fairly reasonably accurate and he built his entire LT kit around it so must be close at least.

Looks like your using Solidworks, or am I wrong? Really interested to see how this is going to turn out for you. Absolutely LOVE dyi projects.

 

[Inv4drZm]

That is awesome progress on the design man, kudos.

The couple of different DYI LT designs I've seen (many of which seemed to get some pretty decent hard use out of) all went with a welded joint. If you have a good, hot, penetrating weld, you're not going to break it. Plenty of other weak points to give first. The simplicity of a welded joint vs going bent sheetmetal wins for me hands down.

On a side note, I am still undecided whether I want to go solid axle or LT up front.. but in the process I have acquired a front end frame cad model (basically bought it second hand from a guy who did his own design as well for $40 bucks, he paid 100 so I figured it was reasonable) shoot me a PM if you're interested and I can get it over to you if you need to mock your design up using it. I haven't done much with it yet but does seem fairly reasonably accurate and he built his entire LT kit around it so must be close at least.

Looks like your using Solidworks, or am I wrong? Really interested to see how this is going to turn out for you. Absolutely LOVE dyi projects.

I'm just thinking over time, dragging that weld or lip over rocks might lead to wear or possibly a crack that propagates. I've seen a raptor arm constructed this way and that Camburg arm. I figure I have plenty of time to design whatever I want and plenty of time to practice welding that I should do it the best way possible.

I havent even mentioned using chromoly vs a36. You see both used in aftermarket arms.

I'm using inventor at work on lunch breaks. Fusion360 I think is enough different that I didnt try drawing this at home.

 

[aemravan]

Definitely valid points. If it were my build I would just skin/skid the arms and send it. But I guess it also depends on the intended use. If you plan on being able to use the arm fairly often to slide over rocks it could be reasonable to fear it wearing down the weld and cracking. However, with a weld and regular inspection, you could always knock it down some and reweld, whereas if it were not that way and you slid it a few time and started eating away its no longer the weld you're chewing up.

I agree that the material decision is probably more of a biggie to settle on considering the pros/cons of each.

When I have some time I'm planning on mocking up a LT vs SAS in the front to hopefully decide the route I want to go (if any different than my current).
I really want to be able to run 37's, not because I need them, but because I want them. I love the look and the added beef would be great for crawling. Clearly as you've shown, you can run 37's with some (what I would consider) minor modifications above fitting a 35 i'm on now. I'm not against cutting/plating the firewall to make work, and the rear isn't an issue for me.

My big thing would be to retain full articulation and not have to limit up travel with running a tire like that. For the stuff I play on I would be MUCH better off with a properly set up and fully articulating 35 than a limited travel 37.
An even bigger consideration for me is longevity of other components that would suffer from the added strain of 37's.. wheel bearings, tire rods/steering rack, etc...

Which is why I'm now thinking about which route to go... My current finding are putting towards an f250 superduty axle, relatively inexpensive and readily available at local junkyards. I could have both front and rear for 700 bucks before fully rebuilding with gear, lockers, bearings, etc etc. That is perfectly fine for the rear, which I'm planning on either doing a 3-link set up on, or doing a reverse triangulated 4link with a 14" shock.

The front is where I'm undecided on... I feel like with a 37" tire, my RCV axles and the wheeling I plan on doing I would pretty quickly find the limit of the factory 8" frontend... I could go to a LT front setup really quick and relatively cheap... but considering that other parts I THINK i would be constantly changing is putting more towards the direction of the SAS with a 3-link as well and something like a 10-12" shock, or whatever I can make work without having to cut out the fender apron and tube the front end.

The ORI shocks looks VERY appealing (other than lead time and cost lol) from the aspect of completely getting rid of springs and not having to worry about dialing in bump stops.. and I think it would make one hell of a 4th gen build to be on 1 ton axles with ORI struts.. the amount of cutting, grinding, fabricating and welding isn't so appealing though.. Maybe a project for late next year...

 

[Inv4drZm]

Definitely valid points. If it were my build I would just skin/skid the arms and send it. But I guess it also depends on the intended use. If you plan on being able to use the arm fairly often to slide over rocks it could be reasonable to fear it wearing down the weld and cracking. However, with a weld and regular inspection, you could always knock it down some and reweld, whereas if it were not that way and you slid it a few time and started eating away its no longer the weld you're chewing up.

I agree that the material decision is probably more of a biggie to settle on considering the pros/cons of each.

When I have some time I'm planning on mocking up a LT vs SAS in the front to hopefully decide the route I want to go (if any different than my current).
I really want to be able to run 37's, not because I need them, but because I want them. I love the look and the added beef would be great for crawling. Clearly as you've shown, you can run 37's with some (what I would consider) minor modifications above fitting a 35 i'm on now. I'm not against cutting/plating the firewall to make work, and the rear isn't an issue for me.

My big thing would be to retain full articulation and not have to limit up travel with running a tire like that. For the stuff I play on I would be MUCH better off with a properly set up and fully articulating 35 than a limited travel 37.
An even bigger consideration for me is longevity of other components that would suffer from the added strain of 37's.. wheel bearings, tire rods/steering rack, etc...

Which is why I'm now thinking about which route to go... My current finding are putting towards an f250 superduty axle, relatively inexpensive and readily available at local junkyards. I could have both front and rear for 700 bucks before fully rebuilding with gear, lockers, bearings, etc etc. That is perfectly fine for the rear, which I'm planning on either doing a 3-link set up on, or doing a reverse triangulated 4link with a 14" shock.

The front is where I'm undecided on... I feel like with a 37" tire, my RCV axles and the wheeling I plan on doing I would pretty quickly find the limit of the factory 8" frontend... I could go to a LT front setup really quick and relatively cheap... but considering that other parts I THINK i would be constantly changing is putting more towards the direction of the SAS with a 3-link as well and something like a 10-12" shock, or whatever I can make work without having to cut out the fender apron and tube the front end.

The ORI shocks looks VERY appealing (other than lead time and cost lol) from the aspect of completely getting rid of springs and not having to worry about dialing in bump stops.. and I think it would make one hell of a 4th gen build to be on 1 ton axles with ORI struts.. the amount of cutting, grinding, fabricating and welding isn't so appealing though.. Maybe a project for late next year...

In the front, +2" kit, I've got 10" of travel with my 37's which I think is decent considering the tire size. Without my body lift it would only be 8.5" which I think is pretty much stock LOL. My current setup is limited by heim joint angle at droop and by the fender at bump. My brother's +3.5" dirt king pulls 12.5" and is limited by RCV cv angle at droop and fender at bump, but the FJ I think has a little taller fender flare.

I'm hoping with my new LT kit, droop will be a little better to at least max out a CV, and I might get fiberglass fenders to get a little better uptravel but maybe after building the kit I'll measure. So really I'm not planning on having much more travel than I do now. I'll be able to gain roughly 4" of ground clearance under each arm, that alone should help a ton. That and pushing the tire forward 2" to gain rubbing clearance and approach angle. I could throw on a set of 40's and not have to trim the firewall any more.

I'll be honest and say I'm not sure how more modern LT kits compare to SFA. It seems like they are plenty strong up to 40" tires with the stock 8" diff but I don't see many people beating hard on these IFS Toyotas w/ 40's to see what breaks first. For me, 37's and IFS seems to get me by on some of the hardest trails in the US. I think with just a little more ground clearance and strengthening of the steering system I'm all set.

 

[aemravan]

Moving your setup forward 2" will be huge for sure. One thing You'll probably run into even with a taller/bulge fender (which I'm running now, granted its a tacoma wide fender, but clearance to tire is the same) is that once you clear the fender there isn't much more room until you are limited by the outer skin of the fender apron. Which is why the few guys I follow online with 37" and LT in the front have resorted to completely cutting out the apron and tubing the front it from the firewall to the radiator support. This i'm absolutely not willing to do since I have so much mounted to and around the fender apron. So for me to maximize up-travel (whether it's IFS LT or SAS) is going to be by increasing the sitting ride height (which I'm willing to do but not to great extremes... I still want to be able to get into my rig semi-conformably lol).

I am almost done pricing out the SAS swap (including the rear axle, gears, 3-link kits, lockers, etc, etc.) and it looks like if I can get close to asking price on the current components I would be selling off i should be able to get into a pretty sweet setup on ORI struts and 3-link front/rear for right around $9k which I think is reasonable. Then I wouldn't have to worry about going through wheel bearings, tie rods, steering rack, or grenading the 8" front end. Seems like everyone is split 50/50 on it... some guys say its a ticking time bomb, other, like you, have run the setup , even on 37's with no issues at all.. decisions decisions...


In closing thoughts.. your rig on 40s...Yes Please.

 

[Inv4drZm]

*Angelic music plays softly in the background*

 

[aemravan]

Coming along awesome man !


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Inv4drZm]

UCA rough sketch.
Its fun to drag the suspension up and down to simulate travel.

 

[Inv4drZm]

Been limping the 4Runner along the past couple winters with a questionable Northstar battery. A couple weeks ago it wouldn't even turn over after a hint of cold weather. Nobody in town carries Northstar/Odyssey batteries except for one place that didn't have any in inventory the correct size.

Did some looking and drove 1.5 hrs away to pick up a X2Power 27f, rebranded Northstar but with a 5 year warranty, and cheaper. Didn't want to order it online I wasn't sure how the warranty stuff worked going that route. Stock plastic battery tray is getting squished....

 

[4RunnerAquasport]

X2s are good batteries. I have one of the starting batts in the 4th gen, and 2 in the 5th gen, one starting and one deep cycle for the house battery.

Just have to keep them topped off with a charger every couple weeks when not being used. They don't like to sit. I put a cheap solar panel on the 5th gen to help with charging. Seems to work well.

Also bought the alternator voltage boosters to accommodate the higher charging requirements of the AGM.

I've beat up so many batteries over the years, I wanted to try to have more reliability in these two rigs.