Inv4drZm's Build Thread

[4RunnerAquasport]

[MENTION=119302]4RunnerAquasport[/MENTION] the sad part is that I am an engineer.. a mechanical one with a concentration in motorsports at that.. lol. But to be fair, that was quite a while ago and my career path has taken quite a turn, more towards project management than any sort of engineering.. now I'm back to being not so bright haha.


Oh well... stop throwing out reasonable answers at me... I'm dead set on widening the pick-up points on the LCA, cutting down the lc200 rack, and living my best life. lol. Jkjk..

That's a solid point on the tundra rack.. I mean hell.. if you do the disassembly yourself, depending on what you spend on the rack and seal kit you may not be in it for all THAT much money. Just hate that I already sourced the LC200 rack and the offset bushings for it.

I don't NEED the long travel.. but I really want it.. lol. I'm not a dune racer.. and kind of am thinking that if I just don't do the clevis route (which saves me 400 bucks anyway) I could get away with living with the added bump steer since it isn't all that terrible at full bump, and decent at ride height. I'll just need to slow down more around turns so I'm not drooping the wheel down much

All in all, I keep going from "damn.. I thought I could go LT fairly reliably and cheap" to "damn it.. now its more expensive than a proven SAS swap"

Maybe what I need is just a budget LT arms with the stock, gusseted spindle and the LC200 rack once the factory one goes out.. this way I can at least somewhat reliability run 37's

I jumped onto the impulse train when I bought the 200. I know better, but I did get a good deal on a brand new rack and now Im committed. I'll have to take my time, take a lot measurements, and see what unfolds w this BS thing.
I may have to spring for some different spindles, or eventually cut my loss on the 200, and get the cut down Tundra rack.
Sorry we hijacked your thread Mason....

 

[y=mx+b]

Is it better that the bump steer is toe-ing in vs the alternative on solid axles where the bump steer would be like the wheels quickly turning left or right?

 

[Inv4drZm]

Is it better that the bump steer is toe-ing in vs the alternative on solid axles where the bump steer would be like the wheels quickly turning left or right?

Probably. Same as if the tie rod was too long, or if it was rear steer ifs like 3rd gens with the tie rods on the other side of the control arms, we would be encountering toe-out which could be worse than toe-in.

 

[Inv4drZm]

Selling my LC200 rack:

https://www.toyota-4runner.org/for-sale-t4r-items/304758-fs-landcruiser-steering-rack-upgrade-$800-kansas.html

Selling my 2022 tundra wheels and tires if anyone in Kansas wants em. Needs special wheel spacers to fit our trucks though.

 

[Inv4drZm]

Out with the old in with the new.

Baby Lincoln's only 140 amp.
Esab is 200 amps and can weld 3/8".

I'll be needing it to weld the inside of my control arms and some Celica motor mounts and stuff.

 

[aemravan]

A good welder upgrade goes a long way. I was fortunate enough that my dad needed to pick up a nice Millermatic 211 for his dump truck and I have access to it. Was really easy to learn to weld with.

With all of this rack talk in progress I decided to take a quick look at the lc200 rack I have in the garage to see what I’m working with.. I’m pretty sure I won’t have many issues making the outer tie rod fit factory width without being long travel, there is plenty of thread fully turned in so between shaving some from the inner and outer I’m pretty certain there will be plenty of bit and abstinent. I also took a quick look at the inner rod mount, couldn’t for the life of me break it loose.. it is a monster.. but just looking at it I’m don’t know if I understand why it couldn’t be shaved down a bit like what is being done with the tundra racks ?

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[Inv4drZm]

A good welder upgrade goes a long way. I was fortunate enough that my dad needed to pick up a nice Millermatic 211 for his dump truck and I have access to it. Was really easy to learn to weld with.

With all of this rack talk in progress I decided to take a quick look at the lc200 rack I have in the garage to see what I’m working with.. I’m pretty sure I won’t have many issues making the outer tie rod fit factory width without being long travel, there is plenty of thread fully turned in so between shaving some from the inner and outer I’m pretty certain there will be plenty of bit and abstinent. I also took a quick look at the inner rod mount, couldn’t for the life of me break it loose.. it is a monster.. but just looking at it I’m don’t know if I understand why it couldn’t be shaved down a bit like what is being done with the tundra racks ?


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I got my inners apart by clamping the rack to my welding table and using a pipe wrench around the tie rod ball and a 2ft cheaper pipe.

1-3/8" needs to be shaved off each side of the rack. The guy that modifies the Tundra racks looked at the LC racks and decided it wouldn't be easy from what I remember reading. I know the tundra uses a much smaller thread to attach the tie rods, I guess there is more steel there to work with and rethread.

Obviously the LC200 rack works with stock everything else, my brother's truck and a few others have it, I just think the shortened Tundra rack is a better way to do it especially if you are wanting to get a lot of wheel travel.

 

[4RunnerAquasport]

Not sure if the guy modding the Tundra rack has looked into the 200, but another guy on Tacoma World (Wishbone Runner - 4th gen owner) took his 200 apart and decided he didn't like the fact the inner tube is hollow and the gear teeth are stamped, not machined into it.
So he decided he wanted to do the Tundra rack instead.
He has since installed it and is happy with it.

But, the length numbers between the ITREs he came up with are 28.5" for the 4th gen and Tacoma racks, and 30.25" for the 200. The Tundra rack is a full 3" longer than our racks at 31.5".

So in my mind, shaving .75" off each end of the 200, could get you back into the ball park length of the OEM 4th gen rack.

I guess the X factor is if the hollow inner gear can be safely shaved and still have enough thread for the ITREs.
Or could it be re threaded to make it work? And would you affect the stamped teeth shaving that much off?

I was also wondering if a solid aluminum one could be made on a CNC machine at the shortened length and the teeth properly machined into it. Then put it on a lathe and have the threads for the ITREs cut back into it. This would most likely be too expensive, but I was thinking outside the box for alternatives to make the 200 work.
Here is a pic of the hollow 200:

 

[Inv4drZm]

Not sure if the guy modding the Tundra rack has looked into the 200, but another guy on Tacoma World (Wishbone Runner - 4th gen owner) took his 200 apart and decided he didn't like the fact the inner tube is hollow and the gear teeth are stamped, not machined into it.
So he decided he wanted to do the Tundra rack instead.
He has since installed it and is happy with it.

But, the length numbers between the ITREs he came up with are 28.5" for the 4th gen and Tacoma racks, and 30.25" for the 200. The Tundra rack is a full 3" longer than our racks at 31.5".

So in my mind, shaving .75" off each end of the 200, could get you back into the ball park length of the OEM 4th gen rack.

I guess the X factor is if the hollow inner gear can be safely shaved and still have enough thread for the ITREs.
Or could it be re threaded to make it work? And would you affect the stamped teeth shaving that much off?

I was also wondering if a solid aluminum one could be made on a CNC machine at the shortened length and the teeth properly machined into it. Then put it on a lathe and have the threads for the ITREs cut back into it. This would most likely be too expensive, but I was thinking outside the box for alternatives to make the 200 work.
Here is a pic of the hollow 200:

The measurement between the tie rod mounting surfaces means nothing. The only measurement that matters is the pivot points themselves. The inner tie rods balls are larger on the LC200 rack and add to its width. I measured:

33.5" clevis bolt to clevis bolt LC200 with heims
32.5" stock LC200 ball joint to ball joint
29.75" stock ball joint to ball joint
So thats where I got my 2.75" difference overall or 1.375" each side. Stock rack to stock rack.

I don't see how its possible the shorten the shaft any. Last picture shows the shaft all the way in, max steering angle. That metal guard around it is held in by a snap ring and appears to be important. You can see the snap ring in the second pic. If you shorten the shaft that metal guard is in the way of the tie rod.


The end where the threads are could be heat treated:

 

[4RunnerAquasport]

The measurement between the tie rod mounting surfaces means nothing. The only measurement that matters is the pivot points themselves. The inner tie rods balls are larger on the LC200 rack and add to its width. I measured:

33.5" clevis bolt to clevis bolt LC200 with heims
32.5" stock LC200 ball joint to ball joint
29.75" stock ball joint to ball joint
So thats where I got my 2.75" difference overall or 1.375" each side. Stock rack to stock rack.

I don't see how its possible the shorten the shaft any. Last picture shows the shaft all the way in, max steering angle. That metal guard around it is held in by a snap ring and appears to be important. You can see the snap ring in the second pic. If you shorten the shaft that metal guard is in the way of the tie rod.


The end where the threads are could be heat treated:

I've never seen these pics. Im missing something in this whole process. I keep hoping for a way to get this done.....

 

[Inv4drZm]

Cheapest quote I got on the machined spindle blocks with tie rod arms are $700 each side unfortunately. If I order 6, so 3 trucks. This is outsourced to an overseas manufacturer, local quotes are $1200 each side including $450 in material cost.

I might be able to sell the extras as raw billets to a crazy guy like me or weld them up to fit stock control arms in a completed spindle. Or build a couple custom LT control arms and package it all together.

 

[aemravan]

Cheapest quote I got on the machined spindle blocks with tie rod arms are $700 each side unfortunately. If I order 6, so 3 trucks. This is outsourced to an overseas manufacturer, local quotes are $1200 each side including $450 in material cost.

I might be able to sell the extras as raw billets to a crazy guy like me or weld them up to fit stock control arms in a completed spindle. Or build a couple custom LT control arms and package it all together.

Thanks for the rack pictures, saves me a ton of time in investigating. If I decided to keep the lc200 rack (which I’m highly leaning towards) I’m definitely not going with the clevis. I’ll just shorten the outer tire rod and ream the spindle to accept the larger diameter shank on the lc200 tie rod while I’m stock travel. I’ll just live with the less than ideal bump steer. On road it should be bad and off-road I can make it work.

What would you charge for flat cut pieces for the lowers and uppers ? I am still quite seriously interested in going long travel.. ideally I wanted to just be able to use my stock spindle with some long travel arms I could weld up .. but between the limited travel and just the overall lack of beef at the connection point makes me feel like an extra 1400 bucks isn’t all that bad considering what you’re getting in return.


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[Inv4drZm]

Thanks for the rack pictures, saves me a ton of time in investigating. If I decided to keep the lc200 rack (which I’m highly leaning towards) I’m definitely not going with the clevis. I’ll just shorten the outer tire rod and ream the spindle to accept the larger diameter shank on the lc200 tie rod while I’m stock travel. I’ll just live with the less than ideal bump steer. On road it should be bad and off-road I can make it work.

What would you charge for flat cut pieces for the lowers and uppers ? I am still quite seriously interested in going long travel.. ideally I wanted to just be able to use my stock spindle with some long travel arms I could weld up .. but between the limited travel and just the overall lack of beef at the connection point makes me feel like an extra 1400 bucks isn’t all that bad considering what you’re getting in return.


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Haven't sent out for a quote on the arms yet. I'm not expecting much, its mostly 1/8" steel. $500 or something like that. Might be able to get around to it next week. Uniballs and other parts from Dirt King are around $1k though. Plus LT coilovers.

 

[Inv4drZm]

Thanks for the rack pictures, saves me a ton of time in investigating. If I decided to keep the lc200 rack (which I’m highly leaning towards) I’m definitely not going with the clevis. I’ll just shorten the outer tire rod and ream the spindle to accept the larger diameter shank on the lc200 tie rod while I’m stock travel. I’ll just live with the less than ideal bump steer. On road it should be bad and off-road I can make it work.

What would you charge for flat cut pieces for the lowers and uppers ? I am still quite seriously interested in going long travel.. ideally I wanted to just be able to use my stock spindle with some long travel arms I could weld up .. but between the limited travel and just the overall lack of beef at the connection point makes me feel like an extra 1400 bucks isn’t all that bad considering what you’re getting in return.


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Another option is to buy my current TC +2" LT arms from me after I fab my kit. I was just never happy with the ground clearance but they allowed me to fit 37's.

 

[aemravan]

Another option is to buy my current TC +2" LT arms from me after I fab my kit. I was just never happy with the ground clearance but they allowed me to fit 37's.

Another option is to buy my current TC +2" LT arms from me after I fab my kit. I was just never happy with the ground clearance but they allowed me to fit 37's.

Now that is something that I could definitely consider short term.. let me know what you’d be looking to get rid of them for


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[Inv4drZm]

Designed a cargo drawer for my buddy's full size Tundra. All aluminum, uses full extension drawer slides, and is full length of bed and about half width. Drawer is riveted together and cabinet uses bolts and riv-nuts. Should be reasonably waterproof.

Unfortunately I'm running into the same issue as my MZLT for having this built. The shop I usually go to is too busy to work on my stuff, and even the shop at work is too busy to allocate time for the press brake.

I've been thinking about designing a replacement fuel tank for the rear of the 4Runner using factory pump and sender. Maybe I just forget about fabrication and design everything I want and wait it out.

 

[aemravan]

I like the all-aluminum drawer set. Pretty sweet, and considerably lighter than a wood variant. My drawer system I built for my 4runner ended up weighing probably 300lbs complete since I wasn't about to spend a ton of money on the more expensive plywood and went with OSB. Didnt' realize how much heavier that stuff was!

I was thinking about a similar route down the road of getting an aluminum drawer set fabricated so they could be more easily managed in and out of the rig if I needed the extra space.. right now there is no way in hell I'm taking these out unless my life depends on it. lol.


As far as shop time, I've run into the same thing with small projects..the metal shop I work with locally tries to get my stuff in but are usually working on larger, million dollar projects, so a $400 set of panels to cut and bend typically falls way down the list of priorities lol. It's unfortunate but it is what it is. Knock out all of your designs you want while you have the down time and have them fabricated as they get some time.

Still excited to see how your LT comes together man, looks awesome, but more importantly I still want your existing LT when its off :naughty:

 

[Inv4drZm]

Custom fuel tank designing is in progress. Should be able to fit 28 to 24 gallons depending on how much trimming of the body I want to do and how full the tank can actually fill to. Honestly I would probably be alright with 20 or so as long as its well out of the way of rocks. Its not going to hang down past the frame rails thats for sure. I can run jerry cans if required.

I believe the stock pump is enclosed pretty tight and the return line feeds directly back into the small enclosure where there is a pickup so fuel starvation shouldnt be a huge issue like I was afraid of. It basically has a small reservoir its pulling fuel from. So maybe just a couple metal baffles in the tank will work and help strengthen it.

I'm not sure why that stock fuel pump thing compresses a ton with those 2 springs but it must sit compressed against the bottom of the fuel tank for some reason.

Hardest part will be relocating evap stuff and fabricating the fill neck.

 

[Inv4drZm]

Still need to design a fill neck, fill neck vent, and evap port. Planning on 14ga SS though it'll be 60lbs and I haven't figured up the cost.

Even though its out of the way of rocks, and aluminum tanks are common in offroading, I'm just afraid aluminum will crack with body flex or something. They'll be a thin skid or something underneath it flush with the frame rails to protect it. Maybe use aluminum for that skid.

Stock sender and pump will be clamped on with some special flanges.

 

[Inv4drZm]

I know I said I didn't want it to hang down below the frame rails but its pretty easy to mount it that way. Genright and Motobilt both have tank relocation kits for Jeeps and they both strap an aluminum tank directly to a 3/16" steel skid plate so I figure I can do that with a SS tank. So the skid plate supports the tank and protects it.

With the skid/tank 1.25" below the frame rails I can fit a rectangular 29.5 gallon tank with my 1.5" body lift. If I got fancy with the tank design I could squeeze another 5 gallons but would be harder to weld and mount the tank. IDK what it would fill to, it still has 2 baffles and a pump taking up space so maybe its closer to 27 gallons actual capacity.