Only doing one side for comparison sake? :lmao:
Ironman Foam Cell Pro
- Thread starter RedRunner_87
- Start date
Only doing one side for comparison sake? :lmao:
shrub1
Member
UCA look cool. Not sure about those green springs though.
RedRunner_87
Senior Member
It will definitely look interesting with my red 4Runner. But it is distinctive.
Are you supposed to do it another way?
honda250xtitan
New member
those shocks aren't extended? are they held compressed? :wtf:
They are 'foam cell' shocks, not 'gas pressurized' shocks. The foam cell (a closed cell rubber with trapped gas in the closed cells) acts as an accumulator (spring), and traps the gas within the foam such that it cannot go into the oil solution and create foaming/aeration/cavitation. Pressure is built up in the shocks with heat, but this compress the rubber foam cell. Since they don't have a nominal gas pressure, they don't extend on the bench.
RedRunner_87
Senior Member
This is how they came in the box, I am not concerned about them. Many people I have talked to running the kit swear by it. It is obvious you don't like the concept of these shocks, which is fine. I bet you keep posting here, but have yet to email them any questions you have. Kind of funny you keep stopping by here to side comments on a suspension you will never run.
Ch0nz
New member
I have a red 4R as well, grab some pictures when you have a chance, interested in the kit with the UCA’s as well.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
honda250xtitan
New member
if it's funny than i'll continue :shrug:
it's an open forum, people can comment all they want, just because i'm questioning it doesn't mean i'm not allowed to comment. :flipoff::welcome:
you're right, i'll never run a garbage shock setup like that.
Jetboy
New member
The gas in every shock is necessary to accommodate the change in internal volume that results from the shock shaft. The internal volume of of the fluid reservoir is reduced by the volume of the shock shaft as it compresses. Without a gas chamber all shocks would basically act as a fixed length linkage and would not move at all, or they would rupture.
The goal then is to use a the gas to allow for volume changes while not mixing with the oil. Gas and oil foam doesn't create the same resistance to flow through the valves and the dampening goes out the window. So there's a few different ways to keep the gas and oil separate. One way is to use a floating piston in between the gas and oil (how it's done in monotubes - either inside the main body as an "IFP" or in a reservoir - same thing, different location. The only real function of the reservoir is to provide more volume of gas for less change in internal pressure through the stroke of the piston) and the other most way to separate the gas and oil is a rubber bladder or bag of gas (how it's done in most twin tube shocks).
The foam cell is basically the same thing as a bag of gas - just a lot of little bags of gas. It provides the same function as a floating piston and air chamber or the rubber bladder. The unknown is how long the foam lasts, how many cycles it can handle before breaking down, etc.
The reason you pressurize a monotube gas chamber is because you need to maintain positive gas pressure through the entire stroke of the shock. Even at full extension you want plenty of gas pressure inside to make sure that the floating piston is being pushed against the oil on the back side. That keeps the oil on the oil side where you want it. The seals are not designed to handle a scenario where there is a vacuum created on the air chamber side - gas will be pulled through the seals to the oil side. The pressure also helps to keep the oil from foaming or boiling at higher temps - but that's pretty rare if not impossible in a 4Runner. All oils will have some suspended gasses in them that would tend to off-gas at higher temps. More pressure helps prevent that off-gassing, but it's a pretty minor issue in a 4Runner and generally not a big issue in most applications anyway. There's basically no way you can push one hard enough to overheat most shocks. The self contained air bladders in typical twin tube shocks don't have that same issue. Nor does it appear the foam cells do. They can expand and contract without as much initial gas pressure required.
If the foam lasts a long time and doesn't break down or rupture the cells, it should be a fine way of making a shock. And it could be used just as easily in monotube by using a block of foam instead of the gas and piston design. The most obvious downside I see is that the foam probably has some limits on expansion and contraction volume. So the shock shaft will be limited in diameter as a result. That's why they use a pretty small piston shaft. An IFP design can accommodate a much larger piston shaft's volume displacement. That's why you'll see much larger heavier shaft and pistons in a race type shock. - Does that matter in a 4Runner that has 8 or 9" of suspension travel? Probably not at all. I've never seen a broken shaft that wasn't the result of a spacer lift causing a bottom out.
The shock shaft diameter beomes a lot more important on a 40" long extended shock (it has to do with the thin column issue - the longer it gets the less force it takes before an out of plane failure - bending under compression or collapse- is expected). That just isn't really an issue with the short travel suspensions we have on our 4Runners.
The goal then is to use a the gas to allow for volume changes while not mixing with the oil. Gas and oil foam doesn't create the same resistance to flow through the valves and the dampening goes out the window. So there's a few different ways to keep the gas and oil separate. One way is to use a floating piston in between the gas and oil (how it's done in monotubes - either inside the main body as an "IFP" or in a reservoir - same thing, different location. The only real function of the reservoir is to provide more volume of gas for less change in internal pressure through the stroke of the piston) and the other most way to separate the gas and oil is a rubber bladder or bag of gas (how it's done in most twin tube shocks).
The foam cell is basically the same thing as a bag of gas - just a lot of little bags of gas. It provides the same function as a floating piston and air chamber or the rubber bladder. The unknown is how long the foam lasts, how many cycles it can handle before breaking down, etc.
The reason you pressurize a monotube gas chamber is because you need to maintain positive gas pressure through the entire stroke of the shock. Even at full extension you want plenty of gas pressure inside to make sure that the floating piston is being pushed against the oil on the back side. That keeps the oil on the oil side where you want it. The seals are not designed to handle a scenario where there is a vacuum created on the air chamber side - gas will be pulled through the seals to the oil side. The pressure also helps to keep the oil from foaming or boiling at higher temps - but that's pretty rare if not impossible in a 4Runner. All oils will have some suspended gasses in them that would tend to off-gas at higher temps. More pressure helps prevent that off-gassing, but it's a pretty minor issue in a 4Runner and generally not a big issue in most applications anyway. There's basically no way you can push one hard enough to overheat most shocks. The self contained air bladders in typical twin tube shocks don't have that same issue. Nor does it appear the foam cells do. They can expand and contract without as much initial gas pressure required.
If the foam lasts a long time and doesn't break down or rupture the cells, it should be a fine way of making a shock. And it could be used just as easily in monotube by using a block of foam instead of the gas and piston design. The most obvious downside I see is that the foam probably has some limits on expansion and contraction volume. So the shock shaft will be limited in diameter as a result. That's why they use a pretty small piston shaft. An IFP design can accommodate a much larger piston shaft's volume displacement. That's why you'll see much larger heavier shaft and pistons in a race type shock. - Does that matter in a 4Runner that has 8 or 9" of suspension travel? Probably not at all. I've never seen a broken shaft that wasn't the result of a spacer lift causing a bottom out.
The shock shaft diameter beomes a lot more important on a 40" long extended shock (it has to do with the thin column issue - the longer it gets the less force it takes before an out of plane failure - bending under compression or collapse- is expected). That just isn't really an issue with the short travel suspensions we have on our 4Runners.
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delloro
New member
Ouch why the animosity?
Wolfman’s Brother
New member
Just an angry youth with no other outlet for the pain. Keep it movin.
RedRunner_87
Senior Member
I never say you weren't allowed, I just said I think it is funny you go out of your way to keep insulting a lift you will never buy. Hey man whatever floats your boat and makes you happy.
I am super pumped to see how it does. I don't off-road hard, but I do go out often enough. So I will put them through their paces.
honda250xtitan
New member
I genuinely hope they work exactly how you want them too.:yo:
RedRunner_87
Senior Member
Thanks man. If they suck ass I will let people know.
borfoo3
New member
Lol this thread was funny to me
Here in the Middle East the Australian aftermarket ‘twin tube’ style shocks (Ex: Ironman, ARB) are quite popular. In fact, it was only a few years back that aftermarket monotubes (I.e FOX, bilstein, Radflo, KING...etc.) started to become common out here. This might be due that the popular off-roading trucks we have here are basically petrol versions of Australian models (I.e. Land cruisers, Nissan Patrols, Prado,...etc.)
That being said, and as mentioned earlier, I generally slot these somewhere in the lower to upper mid-range segment (depending on model) in terms of shock performance. They also mostly lack any fancy adjustment features available with higher end monotube shocks. However, they seem to hold up well for a long time and withstand the sandy environment out here quite well.
So in short, they’re proven, good, come in high load ratings, but don’t overpay for them.
Here in the Middle East the Australian aftermarket ‘twin tube’ style shocks (Ex: Ironman, ARB) are quite popular. In fact, it was only a few years back that aftermarket monotubes (I.e FOX, bilstein, Radflo, KING...etc.) started to become common out here. This might be due that the popular off-roading trucks we have here are basically petrol versions of Australian models (I.e. Land cruisers, Nissan Patrols, Prado,...etc.)
That being said, and as mentioned earlier, I generally slot these somewhere in the lower to upper mid-range segment (depending on model) in terms of shock performance. They also mostly lack any fancy adjustment features available with higher end monotube shocks. However, they seem to hold up well for a long time and withstand the sandy environment out here quite well.
So in short, they’re proven, good, come in high load ratings, but don’t overpay for them.
RedRunner_87
Senior Member
I feel like I got a good deal with everything included. Which leads into this, finally received the Tred Traction Boards from Ironman today. Just in time for my trip.
Untitled by redrunner87, on Flickr
Untitled by redrunner87, on Flickr
generald
Member
Has anyone done a diff drop or added front (or rear) bump stop extensions for the Foam Cell Pro lift (~3")?
Been looking at the stage 3 kit (like an extra $100 from the stage 2 kit at the moment)...and wondering about those additional pieces.
My T4R is a garage princess taken out for trips to Costco or local Colorado trails...but with full skids, I am having trouble justifying a $2k upgrade. I know spacers suck, but for limited driving and a bit of extra clearance, they seem appealing.
Been looking at the stage 3 kit (like an extra $100 from the stage 2 kit at the moment)...and wondering about those additional pieces.
My T4R is a garage princess taken out for trips to Costco or local Colorado trails...but with full skids, I am having trouble justifying a $2k upgrade. I know spacers suck, but for limited driving and a bit of extra clearance, they seem appealing.
RedRunner_87
Senior Member
I should have my lift installed in the next couple of weeks. I went on an overloading trip which kind of pushed back the install date.
Run Forrest Run
New member
Tracking this to see how your alignment turns out.
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